Taken from the Office of Fair Trading consumer website
Your money back
You can insist on a full refund. You do not have to accept a replacement, free repair or credit note. But if you do accept a credit note you probably won't be able to exchange it for cash later on and some credit notes are only valid for a limited period of time.
Once you have, in the legal sense, 'accepted' goods you lose your right to a full refund.* You can only claim reasonable compensation. Normally you have to accept an offer to put the goods right or the cost of a repair. But if the faults can't be put right you are entitled to appropriate compensation which, in many cases, may be the cost of buying an alternative.
You might be able to claim compensation if you suffer loss because of faulty goods, if a faulty iron, for example, ruins your clothes.
* This is relevant as you have now used the goods for a while and will be deemed to have accepted them. The retailer can reasonably argue that the fault has developed rather than being inherent from purchase.
full text can be seen at tinyurl.com/4npg
Although the distance selling regulations applicable to internet purchases afford an additional level of protection, this won't help in your case as you have gone outside the additional time limits applicable. I regret that from the perspective of the sale of goods act you are lumbered with the retailer's offer of a credit note.
Under the circumstances it may be worth making another approach to Oregon, but they are under no obligation to assist.
Good luck.
ND
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Thanks, ND, one query:
Once you have, in the legal sense, 'accepted' goods you lose your right to a full refund.*
* This is relevant as you have now used the goods for a while and will be deemed to have accepted them. The retailer can reasonably argue that the fault has developed rather than being inherent from purchase.
Would it help that I can prove that not long after purchase I contacted the manufacturer for assistance with the problems I'm having? The problem has been there from the outset and I've been trying to get it resolved for a while now but without success.
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Unfortunately you didn't reject the goods but instead attempted to effect a remedy. It's the same as rejecting a car. The moment you are aware that it is not satisfactory you have to state clearly that you are rejecting the goods, cease to use them and endeavour to return them to the retailer.
In the absence of a clear and categorical rejection at an early stage you are deemed to have accepted the goods. I'm afraid you are lumbered.
Still worth taking that tack with the retailer, stating that your original request for a refund was a rejection of the goods, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
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Thanks again, ND. I've emailed them asking for a cash refund so we'll see what the response is. FWIW, Oregon themselves have been helpful with this problem so they might be able to resolve it although they seem to favour me dealing with the retailer.
Assuming I get nowhere with either route, can I insist on a repair to the camera? And if that doesn't improve things, would I still be able to ask for a refund in the form of a credit note? Hopefully the problems are a 'repairable' fault and not a 'feature' of the camera.
So, on to stage 2: Does anyone have any suggestions for alternatives?
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Steve,
I wonder if there is any common factor to the situation where your images are poor, even one that may not be immediately obvious to you? Does your image viewer/edit program allow you to view the "Metadata" embedded into every shot? This can give some clues as to what has gone wrong.
For example poor exposure in perhaps 20% of shots can happen if you set it to spot metering by mistake. Some cameras are a little slow to bring the flash on in poor light and this gives soft grainy images. Others have a rather slow "shutter" speed on flash, this means that a fast moving subject indoors can produce a "smeared effect".
Having said all of that, and as others have posted, you should get a full refund if the camera is faulty and they choose not to repair it. Over 28 days too long...ha ha. I've just got a full refund on a faulty digital TV receiver that was 11mths and 2wks old!
As you want another camera I would jump at the credit note and order something better. After all the cameras are dropping so fast you can actually benefit if a couple of months have elapsed.
We did chat about digital cameras on IHAQ 23...
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18036&...e
Just as an example look at the Comet list (hidden at the bottom of page)..
www.comet.co.uk/comet/html/cache/179.html#viewall
If I was going for the cheapest acceptable then that £105 Kodak is huge value. But I would try and spend more, the Sony DSC-P52 at £154 will do everything you first asked for. It has a decent movie mode too, with sound and duration only limited by memory stick space.
By the way look elsewhere for proper information on these cameras, there are some glaring errors in the features/specs as listed by Comet that would drive you to fury once you got the thing home.
I would encourage you to take this chance to get a mainstream brand. Kodak is really the only decent brand sold cheaply... otherwise try and stick with Fuji, Sony, Canon, Pentax etc.
M.M
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Thanks, M.M, just a couple of points I'd like to respond to.
Firstly, the metering isn't the major problem I'm having. It is awkward to get right, but by changing between full and centre weighted modes I can usually get it acceptable. However, one thing I have noticed is that the 'range' of the sensor seems poor - if you get a building metered correctly say, the sky comes out very bright, whereas if you meter so that the sky comes out blue, the building is underexposed. Whether this is a deficiency of digital over film or whether the camera just has a cheap CCD I don't know.
The main problem though is the focusing. The LCD is so low resolution (I suspect this applies to all cameras) that you can't really see if it is in focus. The camera has a habit of focusing on the nearest object, no matter where that is in the picture. I've had a picture where a thin strip of wall running along the very bottom of the picture is in focus but the rest is out. Trying to force both metering and focusing to be correct is almost impossible. The manufacturer seems to think the light sensor may be at fault, but I'm dubious myself. The retailer now does appear to have offered a full refund so I think I'll take that and go elsewhere, assuming I can get what I choose cheaper. I'm now wondering if I really need 3MP and if 2 might not be better, especially with a better zoom. If I do that then the choice seems to be Kodak 6230, Canon A60 and Fuji A205S. The Kodak is cheaper but only claims ISO200 speed whereas the others claim 400 which might be useful.
Your point about sticking with a known brand is a good one. This isn't the first time I've had poor results from a digital - I bought a D-Link camera a few years back that was useless so that went back as well.
Thanks again for the suggestions - I'll have a mull over them and decide what to do. Whatever, I feel this one is best sent back for some sort of refund as I suspect no matter how much repair work they do it's not going to get much better.
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Steve,
My opinion is that digital images in good outdoor light should have a far better ability to deal with light and shadow than 35mm film. One of the first things folks converting to digital say is how good all their photos look.
I never worry about focus on mine, it is 99.9% perfect in the normal mode. There should be no need to assess focus by looking at the LCD...with a decent camera consider it done by the electronics.
I have taken about 1,200 digital images on ours and would estimate no more than a dozen have suffered any sort of camera error, perhaps less than that.
It really does sound like the internal software and systems on yours have been pruned down to a price where they can't operate in anything but easy conditions.
Mine is 3.2MP but I always use the 1.2MP setting for family shots. This produces crisp 6x4 prints, still allowing a degree of cropping and you get 102 images on a 64MB card. If there is something special to record then I do up to 2MP or 3.2MP.
Mine can be set manually to 100/200/400ISO and left to auto, which I do, seems to range between 100-160. The higher ISO settings are to help capture an image in low light but, like film, it can cause a substantial increase in grain.
Any of the three you mention should be miles ahead of the one you have now. On a gut feeling I would choose the Canon A60 subject to a careful look at the features to see there was everything I needed. (It is worth mentioning the Canon has a focus assist lamp for perfect images in very low light, or even complete dark. So does my camera and it makes a huge difference to flash images. Not all do though.)
Have you seen this website...
www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html
Nearest thing to actually using the cameras. The Canon and Fuji are listed, not sure about Kodak.
Interested to hear how you get on eventually.
M.M
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Thanks again, M.M. I must admit I didn't expect to have so much hassle getting good pictures from the camera - it *could* simply be a fault, but I'm starting to think more that it is a problem with the design.
Still trying to decide what to get, waters now muddied by spotting the Kodak 6340. This is 3MP, 4x zoom and gets a decent writeup. It's also only £30 more than the A60 with more pixels and a better zoom. (The latter being more attractive) That said, write-ups seem to suggest the A60 performs very well and has lots of flexibilty whereas the Kodaks tend to be more point and shoot..
One advantage with both the A60 and the DX6340 is that the retailer I'm dealing with are pretty much the cheapest for both. I could save a tenner on the A60 by going to Amazon but I'm not sure it's worth it for the hassle involved. It might even be worth pointing out that Amazon are cheaper and see if they'll budge on price to get the business.
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>>Still trying to decide what to get, waters now muddied by spotting the Kodak 6340. This is 3MP, 4x zoom and gets a decent writeup. It's also only £30 more than the A60 with more pixels and a better zoom.
Err yes that is the problem with the digital camera thing...the more you look the more you see and the more you think "just another £20"!
That Kodak 6340 looks exceptional. Top class zoom lens with good low-light ability. Very long flash range and and some good shooting modes (like Sport biased towards higher "shutter" speeds).
Steve's Digicams test the 6440 which seems identical but is a 4MP resolution.
M.M
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M.M, have you seen www.imaging-resource.com/ ? They have reviews of the 6340, A60 and P52 in a *lot* of depth. It sounds like all three have some minor downsides but I think any would be a decent choice. The A60 would be cheapest as it uses CF cards - a reason to choose it over the 6230 as the saving on camera cost would be more than made up for by the extra cost of the memory cards. However, the extra for the 6340 may be worth it. The P52 looks good, especially for the movie mode, but I think I'd prefer the extra picture flexibility to better movie resolution.
One interesting thing is how much cheaper these cameras are in the US. They tend to cost not much more in dollars than they do over here in pounds...
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Unfortunately steve this is the risk we take when buying through the internet, unlike the kind of customer service from the likes of John Lewis where they would have replaced or refunded without any question.
I have bought a few things on the net and have always dreaded finding myself in a similar position as yours.
I can understand how you feel and can only hope you can sort out the problem to your satisfaction. Best of luck.
Mal.
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There is actually an advantage to buying over the net. The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 give you 7 days from receipt of the goods to make a reasonable inspection of the goods. You can return the goods for a full refund (less shipping your costs) for any reason whatsoever, including simply changing your mind. You don't have a right to refund for changing your mind if you buy in the high street.
More details on your rights as a consumer when purchasing over the net, by mail order or through television ads can be found on the OFT website. tinyurl.com/yn1l
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In the days before hyperlinks there would have been a good case for tinyurl.com - to save you from typing a long string of unrelated characters.
Now I personally prefer to see the URL of the destination, especially where there is no accompanying description, as I might end up following a link to something I'm not interested in, or have read previously.
I'm not going to suggest people change their ways, just wondered whether I am in a minority on this.
(Doesn't it also take a few minutes each time to generate the tinyurl name?)
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So you prefer
atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?
channel=CARS&locale=HONESTJOHN.CARS.1&bqsCampaign=
honestjohn-search&modelexact=1&nU=0&make=VAUXHALL&model=
VECTRA&min_pr=5000&max_pr=6000&postcode=ox117nn&miles=
40&max_records=50&modelexact=1
to
tinyurl.com/z0w0
when the link is usually described by the author of the post? Personally I find the former somewhat intimidating and it takes up a lot of space.
As it stands, the mods preferred approach is for longer addresses to be made a tinyurl wherever possible. I tend to keep tinyurl \"on\" all the time, so it takes a couple of seconds to make a tinyurl. If we come across a long hyperlink in our travels through the backroom it again only takes a few moments to \"tiny\" it. I have no problem whatsoever with shorter links.
No Dosh, aka Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Now I personally prefer to see the URL of the destination, especially where there is no accompanying description, as I might end up following a link to something I'm not interested in, or have read previously.
Its main purpose is that long URLs can spill over the end of a line. When this happens they no longer act as hyperlinks. This is especially true in e-mails and newsgroup postings.
(Doesn't it also take a few minutes each time to generate the tinyurl name?)
No. It happens so quickly you don't really notice the wait.
Actually there are a couple of disadvantages of using Tinyurl: firstly there's the risk that the service will disappear one day, along with all the links. More worrying is the risk that you might, quite innocently, be redirected to something dodgy. The company network where I work bars Tinyurl URLs for that reason.
There's a similar service called Makeashorterlink.com. It performs the same task but tells you where you're about to be redirected so that you have an opportunity to abort the transfer if it looks dodgy or you're just not interested.
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Yes No Dosh, you have that advantage, but it is all the hassle, phone calls, e-mails etc. which can cause a lot of inconvenience and frustration if it goes pear-shaped rather than buying over the counter.
There are good savings to be made and I have made some very good genuine savings myself and I will continue to shop on the net but like I said I always dread something going wrong.
Regards Mal
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Hiya...
We live in a fully furnished flat, and don't have our own contents insurance as we don't think it's really worth it (TV is really old, and laptops etc have their own insurance bought when purchased).
I've recently been a lucky girl and been given a fairly expensive digital camera for my birthday, and had enough of a tax rebate to enable me to buy a top spec digital piano. So now suddenly the flat is full of expensive items!! It's likely we will only be here another 6 months and then possibly go our separate ways as I graduate and flatmate's job stays here... so... is there a way to insure only the piano and camera, and who would I contact to do such a thing?
Just when I start to think I'm all grown up, I realise I still no nothing about adult things - quite scary really as I could be looking at mortgages soon!!
Thanks for any help anyone can give!
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Try Ensleigh Insurance Services.
They were excellent for this sort of thing when I was a student some 12 years ago.
Hugo
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PoloGirl,
When my son was at University(He had grotty digs in a high risk area of Liverpool.) I paid a small additional premium(£19 in 1997) on my contents insurance to cover his possessions. They had to be detailed - bike, HiFi etc.
My insurance company was Prudential.
C
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>He had grotty digs in a high risk area of Liverpool.
I think you'll find areas of Liverpool are either high risk or "You live where? Strewth."
I think Endsleigh are charging £18 a year for their basic student/young person cover just now for a room in a shared house. Presumably big ticket items (your piano, computers etc.) are extra but I'm not sure.
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hi all,
been looking for a replacement battery for my boat.
battery needs to be 12v-80ah min (deep cycle).
after looking around local shops etc, i can get a 12v-110ah battery (by a well known maker) for £86,
or via a web-site i can get a 12v-80ah one for £34.99.(unknown (to me)maker).
should i get 2 of the cheaper battries,which would give me 160ah capacity for £70, or the 110ah capacity for £86.
is there really that much difference in a name, in terms of battery-life/performance?.
billy.
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No, not my wife.
For reasons known only to itself our boiler is playing up*. Although the timer is set to "constant" for heating (with the 'stat set at 16°C) the heating only seems to come on in the morning along with the hot water. The water is set to come on both morning and evening but the boiler only kicks in for the AM times.
Not a major problem as we have an open fire in the dining room and a log-burning stove in the lounge, except I'm barely keeping up with the axework to keep them fuelled!
I'm assuming that the timer is up the swanee and will be nipping out to get a replacement tomorrow. Is there anything else I ought to check if that doesn't solve the problem?
*Why they never do this in summer is beyond me.
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How do you set the times ? If you extend the morning time upto (say) 6 hours, does it then come on for those 6 hours ?
If so, the timer. If not, could be a number of things.
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I'm assuming that the timer is up the swanee and will be nipping out to get a replacement tomorrow. Is there anything else I ought to check if that doesn't solve the problem?
If you have the most common type of timer that is about 6 x 4 inches Landis & Gyr or rebadged you will probably find that there are many brands out there that have adopted the same base plate and connections so it is a 30 second job to change it. Havva look in the B & Q megga site round the corner.
Do you have a gravity feed system, 22mm pipes to the cylinder is the normal clue? If so then NO pump is needed for hot water. Hot water must be ON else no central heating / pump.
If you have the above type of timer you will notice when you push the slider for CH it drags the slider for HW with it. They are mechanically linked by a little cam between the sliders inside. With a fully pumped system the cam is turned to delink the sliders.
I posted a description of the sequencing of the switching recently in IHAQ. This may help your diagnostics.
I am at at home Fri morning if I can help further.
DIY man not a pro plumber.
Good luck.
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Right, I shall try extending the hot-water time as recommended by Mark and see where that gets me.
The controller (and boiler) are approx 15-20yrs old. Potterton badged controller, 6x4 as described, but the sliders do operate independently.
We are overdue for a new boiler anyway, but want to hang on for the moment as we would like to re-site the new boiler into the kitchen when we have that refitted, hence I'm prepared to go to a reasonable outlay to fix this one for now.
I shall get on the case in a moment and post back later this AM.
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The controller (and boiler) are approx 15-20yrs old. Potterton badged controller, 6x4 as described, but the sliders do operate independently. We are overdue for a new boiler anyway, but want to hang on for the moment as we would like to re-site the new boiler into the kitchen when we have that refitted, hence I'm prepared to go to a reasonable outlay to fix this one for now. I shall get on the case in a moment and post back later this AM.
If the pump runs when only HW selected then you have fully pumped system supported by fact that sliders are independant.
I have binned several faulty controllers like yours.
Suggest you get a new controller and it will work with your new boiler. Lots of electronic ones around with battery back up.
Some offer more on offs than others and are solid state programmable.
Only 5 wires to them. 3 x mains, 1 to HW stat, 1 to CH stat.
Good luck.
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The saga continues:
Replaced timer and now hot water comes on whenever asked for so there was a fault with the timer, however I am still having no joy with the heating. Just to be sure I have set the 'stat to 25°C. I've checked the 'stat and it is receiving and returning 240v, so we can rule that out.
There is a noticable "Buzz" from the motorised valve for the water when HW is on, but no such reaction from the CH valve. I have tried to "Manual" the HW valve but am still not getting anything.
I'm off to check that power is getting to the motor and to see if the valve may be blocked by the motor having sieved or the cogs stripping their teeth, but it's looking like a new valve (although I may be able to get away with the motor).
Grrrr!
Anyone got anything else to suggest, please feel free to post and I shall check back later...
Actually, much later. Just realised I have to dash off and pick up my daughter.
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No Dosh,
Can you give some more details...how many zone valves and what type
(2 port or 3 port)
Fully pumped (ie pump runs for heating and for hot water only)?
Room and cylinder thermostats?
HW cylinder or combi boiler?
The demand it set by the programmer and thermostats...both have to be active, then the correct valves open or close....the zone valves usually close a microswitch which then activates the pump and fires up the boiler.
With some types of valve you can replace the motor/microswitch, if this is the case then test the valve itself when the motor is removed by turning the actuator.
The motors in zone valves are driven to a position then they stall but remain powered...hence the buzzing when active.
My testing procedure for a fully pumped system with 3 port valve is as follows (will also work with 2 zone valves): with a completely cold system to set the HW cylinder stat and room stat to a minimum and both HW and CH to be on constantly so that the boiler and pump do not start up. I then go up to the airing cupboard (the location of my pump, 3 port valve and HW cylinder) and slowly increase the cylinder thermostat. This should click and the valve move to the HW position and the boiler and pump start. I then wait the few minutes for the hot water in the primary circuit from the boiler to work its way up to the valve and check that it is following the correct route. Once confirmed ok I turn down the cylinder thermostat. The boiler should stop firing and the pump should stop a few minutes later once it has removed the residual heat from the boiler. Let everything cool for 30min but dont touch any controls, next get an assistant to slowly turn up the room thermostat which you are observing the valves and pump as before, this time the valve should move to the CH position and the pump start and boiler fire up, as the pipes begin to warm up check that the hot water follows the expected route.
You really need to test both the HW and CH separately to debug this type of fault.
Hope that gives you some ideas of how to move forward with this.
Ian L.
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Dosh, Stand back and think for a while how the system works before you replace any other parts.
Often the timer which you have replaced and Henry describes very well fail to work because they have come slightly detached from the pins at the back. This same model has been made for 40 years to my knowledge and are reliable.
It would be an unusual coincidence if two components had failed at the same time and its possible that you have replaced a good timer for one which made a good connection.
However that could be the case and turning to your motorized valves these are prone to failure after a few years service and is usually the motor itself which needs replacing. Simply remove the holding down screws (isolate all electric?s of course) and lift off. Underneath it is now simply a manual valve which can be checked for seizure with a screwdriver or pliers depending on which type.
If this is free and the motor is receiving 240V this is likely the problem. This itself can be tested with care by restoring power and watching if the drive turns. This is very slow and takes a couple of minutes to complete its turn. Near the end of this process it makes an internal connection and livens up another wire from the motor which is often taken to the circ pump and boiler. I have known this connection fail but usually in the closed position. I have presumed there are contacts inside which have failed to separate.
Many ways a system can be installed but from what you describe you have two 2 port valves one for the CH and the other for DHW.
You are working in the right manner by checking for a 240V supply when the controls are in a position whereas you know there should be one.
Generally if you have a supply out of your programmer (set to CH) the next port of call for the 240V would be the roomstat. If a supply is coming out of this it will probably go to your motorized valve. If this is working as well as turning the valve a supply should come from this to pump and boiler.
Try these before you go any further??..
alvin
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In response to Ian L.
A quick summary of the system:
two x 2 port valves
Pumped for heating only
Room and cylinder thermostats
HW cylinder
The demand it set by the programmer and thermostats...both >> have to be active, then the correct valves open or close....the zone valves usually close a microswitch which >> then activates the pump and fires up the boiler.
I think the microswitch or the motor itself are the problem so off to investigate in a moment, now that I've got back from picking up Miss No Dosh.
The motors in zone valves are driven to a position then they >> stall but remain powered...hence the buzzing when active.
I should have explained better. The buzz is the motor functioning at start-up. It ceases once the system fires up.
And to Alvin:
It would be an unusual coincidence if two components had failed at the same time and its possible that you have replaced a good timer for one which made a good connection.
The same thought crossed my mind but on thinking back we have been having problems with the heating for a fwe months now, so one component may have failed, followed by another more recently.
I've checked the original timer again and whilst it was getting a good contact on all pins there wasn't always an output when it clicked over to CH. Probably no more than a dry connection on the PCB, but for £39 a new timer with 7 day setting etc couldn't really be refused!
Many ways a system can be installed but from what you describe you have two 2 port valves one for the CH and the other for DHW.
Spot on!
You are working in the right manner by checking for a 240V supply when the controls are in a position whereas you know there should be one.
Ta
Generally if you have a supply out of your programmer (set to CH) the next port of call for the 240V would be the roomstat. If a supply is coming out of this it will probably go to your motorized valve. If this is working as well as turning the valve a supply should come from this to pump and boiler. Try these before you go any further??..
Right! Off to get some kindling from the woodshed to set the fires for the evening, then back into the cupboard in the bathroom to check the supply to and feed from the valves and to check the motor operation.
Thanks to both of you. Will keep you informed.....
Now why am I suddenly thinking about the joke where the parachute fails to deploy and the doomed jumper meets a gas engineer on the way up.....
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I think the microswitch or the motor itself are the problem so off to investigate in a moment, now that I've got back from picking up Miss No Dosh. .
>>, but for £39 a newtimer with 7 day setting etc couldn't really be refused!
the valves and to check the motor operation.Thanks to both of you. Will keep you informed.....
Good move to get the new timer.
Just passing and too much to read now.
I will digest the above etc. and add any further comments later.
Cannot have you distracted chopping trees on the heath.
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Now why am I suddenly thinking about the joke where the parachute fails to deploy and the doomed jumper meets a gas engineer on the way up.....
And what about the man falling from the 100th floor skyscraper.
A man leaning out of the 50th floor shouts "how are you"
Reply..."I'm OK so far".....
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Great summaries above.
A quick summary of the system: two x 2 port valves Pumped for heating only
I assume you mean the pump is only working for HW.
It should be pumping for both but the CH valve is not opening.
I think the microswitch or the motor itself are the problem I should have explained better. The buzz is the motor functioning at start-up. It ceases once the system fires up.
I feel sure the diagnosis is right.
I have two Honeywell valves in a a system like yours.
I had motors replaced under my original guarantee.
It was easy to change them. What make / model are your valves? Useful to know so you can phone ahead to ensure the plumbers merchants have the motors. Are they open Sat PM? I would be surprised if a replacement valve is required.
I treat CH like A/Cs and run it once a month in the summer to ensure the CH valve is not furing up. Just switch on CH and turn the stat up then down a few times at 3 min intervals just to exercise the valve / motor.
Have you tried switching off the HW and then manually operating the valve? They are surprisingly stiff to move. Then apply just that amount of force on the CH valve. My levers click sideways to lock the valve open.
Consider swopping the CH motor onto the HW valve.Then select CH to see if the HW valve opens. If so both motors are OK.
If not CH valve has probably got a bit of fur in it.
Try opening the HW valve as described above before refitting its motor.
but for £39 a new timer with 7 day setting etc couldn't really be refused!
Glad your funds were well spent. Spot on!
My valves power open but a spring closes it.
Some valves are powered open and powered shut.
Make a note of the wiring connections in the inevitable spiders nest uless you have one of those full labeled boxes.
A new motor may come with additional wires that are not required in your set up. Ensure the ends of the unused wires are insulated.
Again like the A/C I operate all gate valves etc on my pipes regularly to ensure they are not furing up. Of course never leave gate valves or stop cocks fully open. Always shut them down about a half turn. This allows you to move the valve with confidence in both directions if it does fur up.
Useful to brief Mrs Dosh where main stopcock is and what to do if you get anything leaking.
Basically turn off the mains and turn on all the taps, especially the bath and also flush the loos.
An advanced version of this might start a new thread?
I await the next report.
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Ok, got to the bottom of it.
HK is right - fully pumped system.
CH valve is seized in the open position, but not so open that it triggers the microswitch for the pump. Nothing (and I do mean nothing*) will shift it. Even the return spring was broken! I removed the motor and got the trusty wrecking grips (mole grips to anyone else) to the spindle and after some suitably moderated cursing** got absolutely nowhere. HW valve moves with moderate thumb pressure on the manual lever and still seems healthy. This would explain why the CH was coming on with the HW, but I'm a little puzzled why this only happened on the morning programme. Still, the old timer (Potterton EP2000) was only sending an intermittent signal out so that may have something to do with it.
So new valve for the CH it is then.
The valves are made by Tower and appear to originate from some work that was carried out in 1988. Interestingly I found some receipts in with the boiler circuit diagrams that show that the boiler was incorrectly plumbed in when first installed in 1985 but they ran with it for three years before getting it looked at! I checked with Tower and these valves are long out of production. Motor replacement should, however, still be possible if it fails on the HW valve at a later date.
I was wondering why there were unused terminals for CH off and HW off on the old timer and thought it may be to do with motorised shut-off. It wouldn't be a problem to wire up any new valves on that basis so I shall see what I can get.
The wiring for the system is a total mess so I'm thinking I may as well take this opportunity to get a decent sized box and remake and properly label all the connections as it currently resembles last nights spaghetti..... complete with a dusting of Parmesan.
Whilst putting the multimeter across one of the circuits I made an interesting discovery; If you are totally engrossed in ensuring you don't touch the terminals you are inspecting it is still possible to carelessly place your thumb across a live terminal elsewhere in the system {Ffffffzzzzzzzzzzttt!). More Pink Fluffy Dicing.....
So looks like I shall be picking up a new valve and merrily plumbing away.... on Monday. We still have hot water and I can live with the CH only coming on with HW for a couple of days. As I won't be starting my next contract until the new year I'm not going to waste a weekend with my family on plumbing!
Thanks for all your help. Will confirm mission accomplished next week.
ND
(* Engineering speak for "used t'biggest 'ammer and t'grips and beggar still won't shift***")
(** Mrs No Dosh is wondering why I keep muttering about brightly coloured fur dice)
(*** I'm joking about the hammer)
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Ok, got to the bottom of it. So new valve for the CH it is then. The valves are made by Tower and appear to originate from some work that was carried out in 1988. Motor replacement should, however, still be possible if it fails on the HW valve at a later date.
Do confirm this with local suppliers.
Consider changing both valves as you will have the system partially drained. It may be cheaper in the long run and you stop worrying.
The wiring for the system is a total mess so I'm thinking I may as well take this opportunity to get a decent sized box and remake and properly label all the connections
Potterton made then in their CH kits.I seem to recall labels moulded in the lids.
Plumbers should have these boxes.
We are only typing while you are *******ing.
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What is the battery used for? And who is the maker of the cheaper one? You may already know this, but you have to be careful with lead-acids as there are different types, some of which aren't suited to certain applications. You also tend to find that the charging method can affect the life of some more than others.
Generally, cheaper ones have lead coated plates that are fairly thin and fail easily. More expensive ones have better quality plates that last much longer. A lot depends how you use it though - a cheaper one might suit what you do just as well and you just replace it every 2 or 3 years rather than 5 or 6 for example.
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My junk email address (not my business one fortunately) is being deluged by that tired old Nigerian 419 scams and their derivatives, all from tiscali.co.uk. I note that name appears on this board and suggest those guys have some work to do.
Question: anyone else?
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No, just the usual offers of "enhancement", cheap prescription drugs and some reference to a hotel in the French capital.
Only a matter of time.....
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I have just received notification of a planning application for a leisure complex in the near vicinity of my house, and I need some serious and powerful arguments with which to contest the application.
The complex will comprise a leisure complex building, holiday chalets and flats, static caravans, and a 9-hole golf course. The entrance to the site will be barely a couple of hundred yards from my house, and most of the traffic to and from the complex is likely to come past my house. This will, of course, include construction traffic, service vehicles, movement of the static caravans (i.e. mobile homes) to and from the site as well as customers' cars.
I live on a narrow semi-rural road, and most of the houses (including mine) were bought by retired people as retirement homes where they hoped to be able to spend the rest of their lives in peace. Being retired, they spend a lot of their time at home as opposed to working folks who can escape (!) to work Monday to Friday.
I imagine that once construction is underway it would be difficult for me to sell my house and escape the commotion by moving house.
Any ideas on the best arguments to put forward would be much appreciated.
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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L'escargot,i take it your not a "golfer" then!! some keen ones may actually pay more for the house to have a golf course right on their doorstep!
is it to be built on a "green field "site, is there any flora/fauna that would be detrimentally disturbed by the complex, both by construction and use?. have a word with English Nature, they like to create things called S.S.S.I's (sites of special scientific interest)to preserve habitats etc. they can be a particulaly powerful foe to land developers, and only recently stopped demolition of a derelict building in this area, because it was being used as a roost by a colony of bats!.
billy.
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am I the only one to keep getting offers of a "Cleaner Colon" then ?
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Bora - what Bora ?
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As of this week spamming is illegal from servers situated in the UK (a bill goes through in the US soon). Contact Tiscali and tell them: I'll bet they stop it darn quick. I always find that "bouncing" spam back as undeliverable tends to stop it. I guess you get taken off the lists.
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ChrisR,
How do you 'bounce' mail back?
Also I was under the impression that if you replied in any fashion to spam emails it confirmed that you had a valid email address and these were sold on to other spammers.
C
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I have given up on my Tiscali/Lineone mailbox and just let it fill up, so all spam will be currently bounced.
I am convinced that this has been engineered by Tiscali themselves, as the Tiscali spam filtering service was offered at the same time it started.
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Some mail clients have the option to bounce mail (Mozilla's Thunderbird mail program for example--free download for Windows and Linux from Mozilla.org--and Kmail, which is what I use) but programs like Mailwasher can do this too, without even downloading the mail from the server. The spammer gets a returned 'failed delivery' message looking as if the mail address is dead. Mozilla has an anti-spam filter built in so anything spam-ish can be bounced back en masse: I get maybe one spam email a week now after a period where I was drowning.
C
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My junk email address (not my business one fortunately) is being deluged by that tired old Nigerian 419 scams and their derivatives, all from tiscali.co.uk.
Tiscali is one of the biggest ISPs in Europe which has grown up by swalling many small and medium sized providers. In the UK they bought LineOne (the former BT/Rupert Murdoch joint venture). It's therefore inevitable that a certain amount of spam will come from their users.
More importantly a lot of spam, probably most, comes from forged addresses. One of the more amusing examples I had recently was an offer of a weight loss patch from an address ending @sinnfein.ie.
For the same reason, I'm pretty sure that bouncing spam is pointless: at best you're adding to the amount of pointless traffic on the net and at worst you're contributing to bombarding an innocent person whose address has been forged.
I used to bounce messages and found it made no difference to what I received. The volume of junk still increased steadily. Even if the bounce message goes to the real sender, does anyone seriously believe that someone who sends millions of messages to addresses that may or may not exist will scrupulously check their list to remove the bouncers' addresses? Many spammers operate by sending to everylikelycombinationofnames@wellknownisp.com.
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WS
I happen to have done some text editing work for a spammer and I can tell you that in many cases 'message failed' returned messages are filtered out and the addresses deleted automatically--if the sender's address is real. There is no sense in sending repeated mailings to the same dead address if you know the address is dead. There is also no sense in selling a database of live email addresses to someone else if that other person then finds that a large proportion are dead. I agree that a lot of spammers' return addresses are fake, but quite a large proportion are not: the Nigerian scam for instance requires a reply, not a "click this link." Some spammers use a process of elimination to isolate real addresses from the anypossiblename@anyisp.com start point and many harvest addresses from websites and (more recently) from personal address books, because lists of real addresses are far more valuable to them.
If your spam rate is still rising despite bouncing then you must have your email address on a lot of web pages and in a lot of violated address books.
Chris
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Chris,
I wonder if we're talking about the same kind of message. Did you really work for an actual spammer (of the manhood enlargement/diet pill/V1@Gr@/septic tank/make money fast variety) or did you work for a legit business that used slightly dubious marketing practices?
I realise that many spammers harvest addresses from newsgroups and web sites but the address of mine that receives most (in the thousands per month) hasn't appeared on many (if any) web sites. It just seems that when one spammer has your address others soon follow. I have a couple of other (btinternet/btopenworld.com) addresses which have never been given to anyone, but they receive almost as much spam.
The characteristics of the type of spam I'm referring to are its randomness, sameness and relentlessness. I often get dozens of identical (or almost identical) messages apparently from different addresses. I find it very hard to believe that anyone is making any effort to tell whether it's reaching a receptive audience or even a real person. The sheer volume of it would make this too laborious a task. The spammers are relying on the fact that the marginal cost of sending it is so close to zero that it only takes an infinitesimal number of positive responses to make the exercise worthwhile.
Thankfully, Brightmail spam filtering gets rid of 90 per cent of it and I've yet to notice a false positive. I use Mailwasher to
delete the rest.
(If I don't reply, I'm not being ignorant. I'm going to be away for a few days.)
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There is no real difference in the source of the messages you're talking about, only the purpose of them. Actually I've worked as a freelancer for a few legit web search companies researching natural language processing techniques to get sites noticed by search engines while excluding the pron sites. The pron sites are of course trying to get themselves noticed, so this is a continuous battle requiring very clever and expensive work on NLP (note I'm an editor, not a linguist: I just apply their work for whichever side is paying).
But part of what I did (this was a couple of years ago now) was work on the human interface part of spam: how do you word messages so that people will be more likely to respond to spam emails (thus proving the address is live)? Of course this has to be constantly revised to take account of new slang terms, popular idioms, world events and so on. Automated natural language processing systems are not yet anywhere near as good at this as humans are. In fact some spam is actually used in researching/testing this stuff as a secondary function: they are learning all the time and it's a massive business. The big pron companies in particular spend millions on language research and are involved in many other internet businesses, including the vi@gr@ and "waste management" systems.
>It just seems that when one spammer has your address others soon follow.
This is exactly my point: once an address is known to be live it will get sold on and is worth much more than a randomly generated one. This is why you should never reply. The randomly generated ones also have value to the spammers in that they get quite a lot of hits anyway (about 7% I believe, which seems quite a lot), but it's a crude method and often used by small-scale chancers: having real live addresses is much more effective. I believe bouncing works (it does for me anyway) because after a while the companies that compile and sell lists remove that address (it costs them bandwidth to receive bounced messages after all). It does take time.
As I say I'm now down to one or two spam emails a week as opposed to forty a day at one time: it goes in waves, usually rising when the latest Windows Worm makes an appearance and another batch of Outlook address books hits the databases. Most of the mail clients are adopting a bounce button so it can't be all hokum, but I accept it's only one weapon.
For the record, in the words of a song: "If I'm not pure at least my jewels are."
Chris
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thanks for your reply steveH42,
the battery will be used for running all the electronics,and for starting the outboard. a lot of the electronics will need to be on all the time, even when the engine is not running.the present battery is a 60ah one and is nearly ten years old.over the years i have added more + more electronic "bits" to the boat,and at the end of a day the battery is very decidedly tired. hence the need to upgrade to a larger capacity one.i had thought of installing two, one for the engine and one for the "bits" but that would mean messing around with split charging relays etc,which seems pointless if one big one will do both duties adequetly. the cheaper batteries are by a maker called "fuller" and as i've never heard of them,i wondered if there is that much quality difference between these, and well known makes such as exide,etc.(being in a boat the batteries will be subjected to a lot of vibration,if the plates are thinner will this shake 'em to bits?)
billy.
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The advantage of two batteries is that if you should flatten the battery with the other electronics, you would still be able to start the engine.
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No, I've never heard of Fuller either.... I think you've basically got the choice between the 'known' brand that will cost more but which will likely last you as long as the current battery has, or the cheaper ones which, as Mark says, will give you a backup and more capacity but will likely last half the time. The vibration *shouldn't* affect them overly - I doubt it'll be anything compared to what they'd get in a road vehicle - but the quality of the charger and factors like how long they will sit uncharged might. A cheaper batters is likely to lose charge faster than a good one, so if the boat is sitting around for months at a time unused then this may also cause problems. Of course, if you have the opportunity to top the charge up before use you should be OK.
Have you actually considered the charging BTW? If you're adding more drain then you need to make sure what you are generating is enough to cope as well. It might be necessary to upgrade the alternator / dynamo as well as putting a larger battery in to keep the system balanced.
I'll try and remember where I saw an article a few months back on the subject of cheaper lead-acid batteries as that may have some useful advice as well.
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