|
Also Consider a Dispatch/Scudo Combi
|
|
|
|
The Partner is a current vehicle--going back to 1999 I think--more or less the same as the Berlingo but with slightly different styling and spec: notably on the front end it doesn't have the fully body coloured bumper but some wide black rubbing strips. I think this makes it look more purposeful, but this is completely subjective; I happen to quite like them both. Anyway I have a Partner and use it for, er, carrying big stuff and passengers; in other words, exactly what you would use it for. Old people seem to like the height for getting in and out and the amount of space in the back: it's wide enough for three adults to sit in comfort in the back with loads of leg room and because the back seats are slightly higher than the front ones they can all see what's going on. Kids fight to sit in the middle. The sliding doors are great in car parks and for unloading on busy roads. Just to give you an indication of how useful these things are, last week I picked up a three metre long sheet of perspex (almost as long as the car), and while I had to bend it to make it fit, I didn't have to bend it so much that it was damaged: I reckon the only other car you could get it into would be a very large estate or a hearse. Even with the back seats in place the boot is huge and the interior is tough enough to take quite a bit of punishment without complaint. I've had mine about nine months now and as you can guess, I love it. It even drives quite well once you get used to the tall body and the HDI engine is brilliant.
|
|
Have a look at my recent thread 'Rejecting a Citroen" My father had big problems with a Berlingo, not only with the car but with Citroens customer relations dept. and the Citroen main dealer. He got rid of it as quickly as he could.
|
|
Well said ChrisR but instead of perspex how about loading it with French wine and beer! Lordwoody, your Dad was unlucky and I can understand your and his sentiments but I have had Cits since 1986 and they have never let me down apart from one broken accellerator cable. Hope my "new " Berlingo is as reliable!!
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you for your tip on the Partner, Im definitely going to have a look.. Do they have windows in the back or is this a van type thing. I saw a van Partner today 2 doors and I like the shape of the windows I must say. Will let you know.
|
|
|
|
I guess "the previous Peugeot version of the Berlingo" was a bit ambiguous. What I should have said was the Peugeot version of the previous Berlingo, i.e. up to about a year ago. Both had more streamlined snouts than the current models, and looked better for it, IMHO. I used a Berlingo van to move house not long ago - a few trips admittedly (I wasn't moving far) but it was amazing what it would take.
|
I'm afraid you are wrong when you say that a Kangoo is short and therefore easier to park than a conventional car. That only holds good if you're not intending to open the back door which is so chuffin big and requires so much space for its upswing that you need to park about 3 foot in front of the car/obstacle behind, not least because you need to step back sharpish if you want to hang on to your teeth as the thing comes flying up.
The 1.2 I had for two miserable weeks was as thirsty as a camel with a hangover, had no road-holding ability even unladen and didn't even have clock so badly equipped was it.
They are awful, awful vehicles - don't do it.
|
Hmmmm. Should we judge all cars by base model (rentals?) Hope you didn't buy a BMW a few years ago, they didn't have radios as standard.
Perhaps you should test drive one before purchase. I'm sure that Chris R's Partner has, like my Berlingo, a 90 bhp engine (petrol or diesel), a digital clock, air conditioning, air bags etc. As for road - holding, well mine seems to go round corners as well as the next car but then I don't expect it to corner like a Caterham 7, but then one of those wouldn't be much use for what I want my Berlingo for.
As for the boot taking your teeth out, mine rises very sedately and certainly doesn't stick out 3 feet at low levels.
Nsar doesn't like them, fair enough. I do and you might - if it does what you want. If not, get something else - but not to buy one because there was no clock, and a 1.2 doesn't perform very well - that must have been the basest of base models of Kangoo. Does that mean ALL Versos, Berlingos and Kangoos are bad? I think Nsar should tell HJ about the Verso, HJ is obviously wrong in recommending them!!
|
Dead right PhilW: aircon, remote controlled CD player, airbags, digital clock (wow, that's a good reason for choosing a car and no mistaking), abs brakes etc. People have commented that it's more refined than they expected. Anyway, mine is more than capable of keeping up in lane 3 and has averaged 48mpg in its trouble free first nine months/9K miles. The tailgate keeps you dry while you're stowing luggage in the rain and the rear bumper is reinforced so you can lean things on it: handy for heavy stuff. If you're going to carry cargo regualrly it's probably worth investing seventy quid in a load restraining net that might just save the back of your head in a crash.
And in reply to Tracey, yes it has windows all the way along the side, though I have seen them with the rear side windows (behind the sliding doors) blanked off--presumably an aftermarket thing.
|
You know what Chris, in common with the rest of the human race I wouldn't choose a car based on the presence/absence of a clock, I was using that as an illustration of a general point - a car that lacks something so basic as a clock betrays a general lack of creature comforts/useful tools that are now standard issue across most cars. Why should we excuse this poor package simply because this vehicle has its origins as a delivery van (you'd have thought knowing the time would be quite handy in that line of work, but let's move on)
When you park it, go round the back, open the door (stepping back sharply to avoid that upswing)Now stand still and look how far away your backside is from the bumper - that's how much room you need to leave when picking your parking place - overall length of door + enough room to stand. It's not the design of the door alone it's the design of the door as it is most commonly used, there is a fundamental difference, which in this case amounts to a massive flaw that undermines the purpose of the car, never mind its other failures.
|
|
Well I can only say I've not found this troublesome yet Nsar, but then I guess all hatchbacks suffer from this "problem" to greater or lesser extents. What are the other "failures" of the Kangoo in your opinion and which of them are inherent to the vehicle rather than the particular spec level of the one you were driving? All I know is that so far mine has done its job rather well. Before these things came along I would have had to buy a second vehicle of some kind, an inconvenience that far outweighs the "problem" of owning one car that is competent, but perhaps not perfect, in many different areas. And I guess that is the point of this thread.
|
|
We're not going to agree so let's leave it there. Your motor does what you ask it to and the originator of the thread now has plenty of info/opinion to consider
|
|
Dear Chris
Ive now seen the Partner Combi and it is by far a better shape than the others. I really like it. Thanks for the recommendation. the latest new model is very nice too and the Escapade 4x4 type one is really nice with the ceiling windows, have you seen it? Ive got a brochure - but of course, I wont be buying new unfortunately my budget is limited. Im hoping to pick a 2 year old one up for #6,500 does this sound realistic to you? Do you recommend the DHI 2ltre engine - how mpg can I expect with a diesel one? Ill be picking your owner knowledge now!
Thanks
|
Tracey,
Obviously you have very poor taste! My Berlingo is exactly the same as the Peugeot except for the double chevron on the front and rear which makes it a far better shape and much more desireable! I think you would find the 2.0 HDi engine far superior to the older diesel - much more refined, more powerful and more economical. ChrisR said he was getting 48mpg from his, I'm only getting about 42 - 43 from mine but that may be because the engine is still "tight" and I am still getting used to it, still flooring the throttle at every opportunity (daft in a car like this but good fun to surprise the odd boy racer with my "van's" performance) and I've had the aircon on all the time (don't know if it makes much difference but it may). My wife's Xantia with basically same HDi engine but more powerful does 45 mpg pootling about, and does over 50 on a run.
Unfortunately, the HDi engine only fitted to Berlingo/Partner since about March, so they may be a bit above your budget. I paid £9750 for mine from a main dealer - ex-demo with 500 miles on clock. It has the "ceiling windows", modutop, air -con etc and may have been overpriced, but HDis were few and far between even brand new in June and I wanted one and the finance was pretty good, though there were plenty of 1.9D models.
Have you done a search on Autotrader or the Citroen website? Otherwise I would advise waiting a while for HDis to come through on the second hand market because the engine is so superior to the old 1.9D
PhilW
|
Tracey
I have had a Kangoo for almost 9 months,can,t praise vehicle
enough.I use it for the dogs(2 greyhounds)with the back seat
folded up its like a living room for them.I also use it to go
on kayaking trips,brilliant.really secure bolt on roofrack
and I can take out the back seat(10 minutes) and sleep in it
if I get to my destination late.I also have a caravan and the
diesel version that I have is great at towing it,both for the
torque it provides and the position of the back wheels.
I realise that none of this may apply to you but it goes some
way to demonstrating how versitile these cars are.The driving
position is good with a high clear view of the road.Mine has
done 14.000 miles and gets 44 mpg and has,nt given me any problems.(it has a 3 year warranty in case)
The service intervals are 18000 miles and should,nt
cost an arm and a leg(I change the oil every 4500 miles)
I was passing a Citroen dealer the other day and I saw a new
model Berlingo 2.0 TDI sitting on the forecourt for £8499
and I am sure you could improve on that by buying on the
net. Finally with the arc of the rear tailgate you would have
to be up against a brick wall to need 3 foot of clearance.
Crofty
|
|
|
Phil
Thanks for your comments on the Berlingo - I will certainly look into both models and do pros and cons - I have heard that the 2ltre HDI is the one to go for, anyway both shapes are never gone completely convince me but I have to overcome this vanity thing in order to get the vehicle which is perfect for my business venture and I have two Jack Russells who love looking out of windows, so I guess windows it is - bigger the better from their point of view.
My reservations on Citroen - is I keep reading reports that they are unreliable - (very good value for money though) and people that have had bad experiences with things going wrong etc. II bet now you are going to tell me that Peugeot and Citroen are the same company! Im beginning to realise its all a very much of a muchness. Also, what is the insurance group for one of these types of vehicles?
Anyway keep your comments coming cause Im still deciding and these opinions are really helping me.
Thanks guys
|
|
|
Phil
I was initially disappointed by the mpg on mine but it has steadily improved--still not getting what they say it should, though. It seems very susceptible to the type of driving: short, not-quite-warmed-up runs are the worst, and long A-road runs are well into the 50s. I'm getting about 48 overall: it managed 54mpg on a trip to Scotland over the summer, and that's with aircon running, fully loaded with camping gear. So to Tracey I would say look around for an HDI: they are far superior in every way to the other engines in the range and worth waiting for. I bought mine in January with the HDI, but Citroen couldn't find one before March as Phil says: the tricky blighters at PSA (the parent company) seemed to favour Peugeot initially while Citroen's VAT-off offer was running. The modutop is excellent but we were held back by cost and thought ABS and aircon would be the best bets with our limited resources (the Pug also came with passenger airbag and CD player, which were options on the Cit, so check carefully).
Chris
|
The owners' advice is correct, of course. Berlingo and Partner roll off the same line so there is no reason to favour one over the other unless you can get a better deal.
Unfortunately you're not going to get a one year old HDi for £6500. Having searched AutoTrader, you might just squeeze under £8k - but the performance and economy benefits make it worth it if you can stretch. You'll get an extra 10 mpg as well as a car that is much more able to keep up with traffic.
Have you looked into my suggestion of financing the vehicle through the business? This might be the most cost efficient way of all. Alternatively, if you want to fund it privately, have a look at www.smartermotoring.com which lets you do a kind of lease, with a balloon payment, but which isn't tied to the car so you can sell it at any time and are free to shop around for the best deal as a cash purchser. The interest rate is very low too.
|
If you really cant stand the look of the Berlingo, consider the Picasso, there are many good prices for these. My 2.0HDi is the same engine as in the Berlingo, but the car looks a lot smarter and I would reckon is just as versatile. Big boot and the 3 full size adult seats at the rear come out individually with just one click. This makes the load space truly cavernous.
Regards,
Alf
|
Tracey,
Good points by Alf - the HDi engine has been in the Picasso longer therefore better priced second hand ones available. I just liked the Berlingo (I had a couple of Renault 4s many years ago and it seemed the modern equivalent (practical but ugly!))
As for insurance group, I think it is group 5. I know I got a refund from Direct Line when I changed from my old BX which surprised me - think I pay just under £200. And tax is cheaper - £130
Reliability? Well I can only speak from experience. My wife and I have run BXs and Xantias for the last 16 years and have only once had to call out the RAC - for a broken throttle cable. Yes there have been the usual brake pads , discs, tyres, exhausts etc but nothing major involving engine or transmission (two new clutches but both on cars with over 100,000 miles on the clock and the occasional CVJ rubber boot)
I certainly can't complain about my Cits. They have got me to work every morning for 16 years bar one flat battery one morning and carried us all over Europe as far as Greece with a caravan on the back - but no doubt others will tell you differently!
People say that the suspension on them is too complicated (not on Berlingo by the way)but we have never had a problem more complex than to replace spheres - a very simple job, one octopus (that was a ***** but I did it myself)and a couple of of pumps (£125 each but not bad in 16 years on cars with 100k on the clock)
|
|
|
|
Hi its me again!
As you are the owner of a Berlingo - just wanted to ask some advice if thats ok? I have pretty much decided to buy a Berlingo based on the facts all workmen /businesses seem to have them around my area so that must count for something in reliability, I see the van versions everywhere. I have been offered a 1.6v petrol - year W (2000) with air con (which I definitely wanted) with 25,000 on clock - from main Citroen dealer locally, for £6,995, Im looking to get £500 off the price but does this sound a good deal. Also, I originally wanted a diesel as well - will this petrol engine give me good mileage - I need to get no less than 45-50 mpg on my next vehicle? Your comments would be appreciated. Thanks. T
|
Tracey have looked at HJ's car by car ?www.honestjohn.co.uk/index.php?url=/carbycar/index...m
I reckon HJ has a mole inside every major car manufacturer. The information is uncannily accurate and detailed. I don't think you will achieve your fuel consumption target without going to a diesel. I gather you want to keep the cost down so you might only be able to afford a normally aspirated diesel. Have a long test drive first to make sure you can live with it. Also very worthwhile investing £99 on the independent inspection as advertised on this site, you can put the cost down as a business expense.
|
|
M.M is right that it must be a diesel for this work and that this 1.6 is overpriced. With the arrival of the HDI the petrol engined models are much less desirable than they were. The old 1.9 normally aspirated diesel is hardly more economical than the 1.6 petrol in this vehicle, presumably because of the aerodynamics, though it will be a more relaxing drive and cope better with the short trips.
|
|
|
|
Delivery work, city, short runs, economy...it *has* to be a diesel. The diesel will also hold its money in later years.
That 1.6 petrol is far too much anyway. For that money you can get an 02 diesel with 10K recorded.
A £100 inspection might be worthwhile on an old vehicle but on one 12-36 mths old from a main dealer??
M.M
|
|
Err MM, I don't trust main dealers with expensive showrooms and salesmen in sharp suits. It was sad day when my local country garage VX dealer with none of the above was bought out to close it down to be replaced by, - yes you've guessed it all the above miles away. Just my point of view.
|
|
|
Delivery work, city, short runs, economy...it *has* to be a diesel.
Tracey, you might remember up at the top this thread it was commented that Mrs FiF used to do something similar but using a most unsuitable vehicle.
1.2 Petrol which used to to 50 plus on a run. On the job "so to speak" 21 mpg on a good day.
Plus if you have lots of drops to make in a day you'll regret if there is no central locking IMO.
FiF
|
I can't add much more to the discussion which seems pretty comprehensive. All I would add is that, having driven the "old" XUD 1.9 engined diesels for years I found the "new" HDi engines a vast improvement even over the old TDs in terms of refinement. Not sure that the performance is miles better except that you don't feel the turbo kick in like on the old ones when it used to come in with a bang on 1800 revs. The HDi has the torque from much lower revs.
I also remember that ChrisR said there were better deals available on the Peugeot Partner which, lets be honest, is identcal to the Berlingo and you could always prise off the Peugeot badges and replace with Citroen and make it a much better car! I would hang on for an HDi for what you want it for though I'm sure the "older" diesel dooes a more than adequate job and is better than the petrol (for yopur purpose)
|
The problem with the 1.9 XUD Berlingos is that they don't have a turbo. Same goes for the Partner.
FWIW if you can, I'd probably accept that you're not going to get an HDi for less than £8k, pay the extra £1500 or so, and with it get a newer car that you keep for an extra year or two to pay back the difference. It'll probably do that, being newer and worth more when you do sell, and more economical in the meantime, as well as being a better drive.
(I've never driven a Berlingo but certainly if you compare the 1.9 XUD in the 206 with the 2.0 HDi, I'd take the HDi every time at the sort of price difference we're talking about).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
