It's a 1.1 if that helps. Such a simple engine that even I managed to change the head gasket last year. So I guess yes, the OHV. Wasn't aware it was injected...
Thanks, that's one thing I can look at tomorrow.
More info...the stall takes place at low speed, not when driving at normal speed. Seems to be when she is slowing to a stop. Tickover seems fine and regular whenever I've tried it.
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Thanks David
Had a poke around and am replacing the air filter (bit grungy), the fuel filter and sure enough, the throttle position sensor is red, so that too (when I can source the part)
Will report back.
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I couldn't get the part at the weekend so only did the fuel and air filters. Daughter says it seems fine, and is now running smoother.
Out of interest, I contacted a Ford dealer, they would have to order in the throttle sensor, and it would have cost me a whopping £75 + VAT! So fingers crossed I've cured the problem.
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Today it won't start. Seems to be firing, yet despite persistent attempts the plugs are dry, not wet as I expected.
Is that likely to be the throttle sensor, or something else?
All ideas gratefully accepted!
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Eventually it started the other day. Contacted my little man whop recommended another little man who specialises in Fords, and knows 'em inside out apparently.
Common problem he says - bring it in for an engine flush. All to do with sticky inlet valves apparently. He said he will compression test before and after flush and show me the results.
£54 + VAT. Just hope it fixes this (intermittent) problem.
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This problem is continuing, despite a (rather expensive) flush.
1.1 Fiesta Azura, N reg, c 35k. Single injection
Daughter has now defined it slightly better.
When she depresses the clutch while slowing down, the engine just dies. Can happen hot or cold. Doesn't misfire in normal use. No sludge. New plugs. New leads. New fuel filter. Top end flush.
Do I go for the throttle thing (which was rather expensive from Ford - £80 IIRC) or does anyone have cheaper suggestions?
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try a scrapyard first...
madf
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I had this on my 1992 1.1LX Fiesta company car. Put in clutch, engine cuts out. It was a loose tube (vacuum hose i think, but it was a long time ago) fallen off the carb. But yours is injected.
Pass, but maybe a check of the hoses may help?
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It may have a clutch switch. Can't remember. It's like a brake light switch but on the clutch pedal. If it has one then check that it switches when clutch is pressed.
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That's interesting, the other problem she is reporting is the clutch sticking. Which we had before, and was cured by changing a spring (I think).
I'll have a look in daylight. Will also look at hoses
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Couldn't find a clutch switch, is there definitely one there?
I've also had a good read of other threads.
What does the panel think about the MAF sensor?
Are they expensive, and where are they in the engine? I have Haynes and Ford TIS but none properly describe it.
HEGO sensor also appears to cause similar problems but apparently these are only on the 1.4i.
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Smokie,
This could be so far off it's laughable but you may be interested.
I recently got rid of a Fiesta which suffered that same problem as your daughter's. That is to say, when dipping the clutch at junctions, it would cut out. I actually posted on here about it a while back. It carried on doing this for a good while but when warmed up, it was fine. Then, I'd get the loss of power. The car would still move, but almost like it was wheezing. My Dad drove it a few times before we got rid as a temporary car before he got his new one and said it was misfiring like crazy. We just thought we'd run it into the ground.
THEN, he was coming home down the motorway and the damn thing caught fire! Not a big fire, and Dad managed to put it out. The bulkhead looked scorched but that was about it.
Anyhoo, it turned out that ALL OF THE ABOVE was caused by the cat* breaking up and then becoming blocked so the exhaust gasses couldn't get out. That caused the cutting out, misfiring and then the fire.
Can't say whether it's relevant to your problem but it's worth thinking about as when it got changed, the car worked perfectly again...and then we sold it.
* Poor Tibbles.
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Adam
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Thanks Adam
I read your posts about that earlier today.
My problem is not knowing where to start. The car is low mileage (35k I think) so is bodily pretty good.
Mechanically it seems to have cost quite a bit so far to try to track down this problem (and a few other bits).
It really isn't worth the expense of keep spending more and more on trying to resolve this problem - but I have another daughter who will be driving next April and it seems too good a car to chuck away, only to be replaced in a few months with something which I don't know from Adam...if you'll pardon the expression :-)
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Smokie,
There is a very simple way to test if the cat braking up. Just hit the underneath of the exhust with your hand and if you can hear shards of metal rattling about it is a good bet the cat is damaged.
Had a very similar issue on my Pug 406.
Ca***.
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Ahh - hold on with that. Apparently, he said the car was close to the engine on mine. However, mine was a Mark 4 so it may be ever so slightly different.
Good luck with whatever you do Smokie - but you are right - seems too good to chuck.
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Adam
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CAT* was close to the engine. The car is bound to be close to the engine isn't it?
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Adam
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Hey - my vauxhall astra has the same problem -
1. when you press the clutch the revs drop below one. it causes it to stall. :)
2.if your clever enough drive the car at high revs.
3.When slowing down do not skip gears. I.e do not change from 4th gear straight to 2 or 1. change to third first.
But i really want to solve the problem, not avoid it so.....
can any one help me?
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Fez22,
More than likely it's the ISCV (idle speed control valve sticking) on your Astra. It's a common problem.
The cure is here:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=25...0
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Right i will check this out. Thank you very much.
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Had similar problem repeatedly - several things seemed to solve it for a while - never replaced the throttle switch, but did replace slow running valve, also replaced leaking air hoses between the rocker box and the inlet manifold. Finally seems to have been solved by replacing the oil filler cap - the one way valve to the inlet manifold wasn't working. Worked ok for over a year after that.
Problem now is the camshaft!
Cheers
John
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The Fiesta is now kept off road at an old Army barracks and 16yo is learning to drive in it. In April I will MOT and de-SORN it and it will be hers, on the road.
However it still cuts out, and I was there today to witness it. We had been tootling around for about 40 minutes with no problem. Then, sitting with engine idling, it just stopped. Just like you've turned the key. It wouldn't start again for about 5 minutes. Doesn't fire at all. Then all of a sudden, it starts again. But it won't keep running - just dies. After a few goes of this it's OK again, like there was never any problem.
I don't really know how to tell whether it's fuel or sparks, but my money would be on no sparks. I still didn't follow the early advice re the throttle sensor (cos of cost) but I will spend the money if there is a good chance of it fixing it.
Does anyone have any ideas for how I can diagnose this rapidly if it happens again? Or anything to add to the suggestions above?
Thanks
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Possible fuel pump works when it feels like it.Just a thought?
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Steve
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Its got be fueling rather than ignition. The obvious thing is the throttle sensor. Are you sure the car is injected, if not I would suspect the vacuum pull down which operates to partialy close the choke in certain circumstances. But if that was happening it points to a tube or something being blocked. Have you had the fuel line off to check for dirt and looked at the fuel pump? Theres a small filter in there somewhere.
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It's definitely a single point injection. I replaced the main fuel filter a year or so back (the car hasn't been used much for three months) but I don't know how to check where the problem is.
I'll have a look at the Haynes manual and see what's within my scope in that area.
Re the fuel line - you mean from the tank to the filter, or from the filter to the injection? (or both?
If I find the fuel line (shouldn't be too hard!) what's the best way to clean it? Or is replacement preferred?
SHould I go for this sensor anyway?
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Found the sensor (black, p/n 6854778) at a breakers for £20 + VAT + p&p (now £93.21 at Ford dealers!) so its on it's way.
Also asked them about the plastic bonnet release which I broke - £5 + VAT - this is only £3.08 at the dealer!
Will update once I have the part fitted and have tested.
Thanks for advice.
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www.fordpartsuk.com/
I recently bought mirror glass fro them and got ~10% off the dealer price, though they boast up to 25% off. Their Internet business is run from their dealer outfit, so you still have to wait for the part to come in before they ship it.
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Useful site, now bookmarked. Thanks
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I fitted the new sensor today and unfortunately still have the same problem.
The car will always run fine from cold, but about 45 minutes later it will die - jst like you've turned the ignition off. It won't even fire for a few minutes. Then it will fire and eventually start. But if you hold it on mid revs for a while, again it just dies like the key has been turned. After a few goes of this, it starts and runs and is OK again. It's most odd...and any more suggestions would be gratefully received, especially as my daughter will be on the roads in it in the not too distant future.
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Being single point inj/electronic ignition.Ie Ecu controlled.Have you checked out crankshaft sensor..I wonder if this is causing you grief..They can fail at the most inapropriate times.Causing sudden spark failure.Have known it on other cars..They rectify for a short time then break down again..Just a thought and may be wrong?
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Steve
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I would agree with steve.o. Apparently these sensors are like gold dust at breakers. May also explain the dry plugs you mentioned earlier. The sensor is located at the front of the engine near the gearbox.
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I had the very same thing happen with my Fiesta where it would stall etc and I had the throttle sensor replaced, the air filter/injection unit replaced but it still did the same thing. In the end it was the crank shaft sensor that was all covered in mud and stuff and so it wasn't letting the spark travel the right way and thus stopping the car from starting. Btw, that was more the problem with mine... it wouldn't start from cold although like i said above it did stall a few times starting was worse. Sounds like it could be something similar Smokie.
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OK, I will try to source on of these then report back. Or is it just a cleaning job? (I'm assuming you are referring to what Haynes calls Engine Speed/Crankshaft Position Sensor?).
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See if it's dirty first and clean it. I can't imagine it being so, it's screwed in behind the flywheel so there might be clutch dust but not much else. It may be worth cleaning the electrical contacts. It's a non-contact sensor so I don't know how much dirt getting in the way really matters, it should just work off inductance.
Yes it's what Haynes calls the engine speed/Crankshaft Position Sensor. The Haynes description will be along the lines of "it senses gaps in the flywheel... frequency and magnitude of the signal increases with engine speed". There's only one I think so you've a fair bet that you've got the right one :-)
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Prdered one last night from fordpartsuk - about £19 all in. Will report back! Thanks
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Inductance sensors are great : provided the gunge/crud covering them is non magnetic and contains no electrical conducting materials.
Now the crud on the road/ engine bay consists of
non magnetic: brake dust, tyre dust, sand, oil, rubber and fabric from hoses and belts, exhaust soot, spilled antifreee
plus magnetic:
brake disk dust, rusty exhausts, worn tensioners , bearings, bits of wire from worn tyres, copperease, fine steel dust from pulleys etc.
Get too much of that mixture on a finely tuned sensor and I think it will affect any pick up system.
PS : son's Fiesta had a non strating/misfiring problem caused by dirt/moisture on ignition system. All carefully cleaned with rag and sprayed with WD40 - 10 minutes job solved it.
madf
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Sorry to raise this one yet again, but it's still happening. Throttle position sensor and camshaft sensor now both changed, also plugs and HT leads. As described above, I'm starting to realise that you can almost set your watch by it - 45/50 minutes then it goes off. Restarting seems quicker (but still takes time) since crankshaft sensor replaced. Once restarted it runs fine - havem't yet been in it for a further 45/50 mins after a restart but definitely OK after 20 mins.
BRers were spot on with my heat-related problem in the Omega (cranksaft sensor!) - any further thoughts on this one please?
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Shot in the dark.But seemed to work on a rover..Crank sensor has relucter ring on flywheel.Try cleaning it up.Not long done it on 214 that suffered same problem.
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Steve
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Unfortunately there is no reluctance ring on the flywheel, so it can't be that.
It still sounds heat related, though it's strange that it doesn't take long to restart. Maybe fuel related? There's a purge for the fuel system which releases excess vapour at idle. I forget where or how it works, but maybe this is related?
Have your tried a fuel system/injection cleaner? This could free up any sticking components.
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Mike Farrow
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I happen to have some in the garage, will try that...thanks
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>>There's a purge for the fuel system which releases excess vapour at idle.
I dont think its at idle.But correct if wrong.The ECU decides when purge happens..Usualy when at high revs engine hot.?
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Steve
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I dont think its at idle.But correct if wrong.
My apologise steve.o, you're right:
"The purge solenoid valve operates ... when the throttle plate is not closed. "
Looks like it's a tricky fault to find, this one. Have you tried having any fault codes read? A Ford dealer or a competant independant would be able to do this, though a dealer might charge a bit. Not sure how long the codes last for, though.
Aside from that all I would do is clean all the electrical connections and breather system if not done already. A clean engine's a happy engine :-) .
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Mike Farrow
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Looking more like an exhaust problem.Cat may be one??
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Steve
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I didn't realise it would be sophisicated enough to have fault codes! I'm sure you could be right Steve, but why would it run fine for a certain length of time then expire if it was exhaust?
(I'm a technical cabbage btw...)
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While you are trying to restart the car after it has cut out, is the fuel pump running? To check, this will need two people - one to turn the key, the other to feel or listen to the pump.
I suggest it as a simple, free check that may help you track down the fault.
number_cruncher
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Having looked back at whats been said/done.I would look at fuel side. possible fuel pump.But could also be relay or connection problem.I agree with NC on checking fuel pump.In other words if it isnt running during this cut out period-thats the problem all you have to do then is trace why
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Steve
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Just a wild idea, but on my Laguna I was having the exact same problem, After about 30 minutes the engine would die, then not restart for a few minutes. It turned out to be the points, cleaned off the points and the rotor arm and it has been fine ever since (still got the new ones in the boot ready to be fitted), i have no idea if the fiesta has points and a rotor, but if it has might be worth checking.
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Unfortunately these engines don't have points nor rotor/distribtor. Is it still only stalling at idle? Or any time/speed?
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Mike Farrow
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I *think* it's only at idle, or at least when not under load, i.e. slowing down ( de-clutching).
Will investigate where the fuel pump is and do as suggested.
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Points on a Laguna?Didn't think they had been around that long.
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Well it has a rotor arm and a distributor cap, so i assume it has points inside, I like the older engines, I can actually do some of the work myself when things go wrong and it's not that expensive when it does go wrong!!!!
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Well it has a rotor arm and a distributor cap, so i assume it has points inside
Not necessarily. Because of the need to control the ignition timing in light of requirements from the engine to do with emissions, most car engines nowadays (post catalysed) time their ignition electronically and just break the connection to the coil pack electronically whenever a spark it required. A rotor arm and distributor just make sure the spark goes to the right plug.
Some engines, e.g. Fords', have a coil pack with switch between sparking two lots of two cylinders (i.e. 1+4, 2+3, 1+4, etc.) thus having a wasted spark on exhaust strokes, and no distributor. Other engines have a different coil pack for each plug, each electronically controlled seperately, but these naturally incur higher costs. Hence why a distributor and rotor are still used (one coil and a dizzy is cheaper than 2+ coils).
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Mike Farrow
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