Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Perfection

This evening a family member's car catylist convertor (Auris Hybrid) has been stolen outside my house.

Does the car thief only target hybrid or will they target Honda Jazz petrol as well? I am now concerned that my Jazz will be targeted next. I just did a Google and it seems to suggest both the Jazz and Auris are targeted cars.

The family member will sell the car and get something else and I am thinking the same on the Jazz?

Apart from selling these cars to avoid future theft, are there any other solution or suggestions? We are not sure what cars to buy now? Maybe an old banger...

Edited by Perfection on 19/04/2021 at 22:45

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Andrew-T

The family member will sell the car and get something else and I am thinking the same on the Jazz?..

Tricky to sell without the required cat .....

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - edlithgow

This evening a family member's car catylist convertor (Auris Hybrid) has been stolen outside my house.

Does the car thief only target hybrid or will they target Honda Jazz petrol as well? I am now concerned that my Jazz will be targeted next. I just did a Google and it seems to suggest both the Jazz and Auris are targeted cars.

The family member will sell the car and get something else and I am thinking the same on the Jazz?

Apart from selling these cars to avoid future theft, are there any other solution or suggestions? We are not sure what cars to buy now? Maybe an old banger...

Maybe a VERY old banger, which wouldn't actually have a catalyst, but that probably means a classic (except mine, which IS definately a banger).

Or a diesel, (banger or not, since AFAIK DPF;s have no rare metal content) if that would work for you.

Since I understand the cats are stolen for scrap rather than re-use I wouldnt have thought age would,, of itself, be a disincentive to the thieves.

You can get a steel security box which encloses the cat. Obviously they could cut that away too but its more hassle so they might just move on and predate another member of the herd.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbce8m2KykU

Edited by edlithgow on 20/04/2021 at 00:49

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Ethan Edwards

Perhaps one answer might be to avoid their target group. Buy a car that's not so mainstream. They might have trouble finding it so quickly. Suzuki or Ssyangyong or something. Cat thieves really are the lowest.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - edlithgow

Perhaps one answer might be to avoid their target group. Buy a car that's not so mainstream. They might have trouble finding it so quickly. Suzuki or Ssyangyong or something. Cat thieves really are the lowest.

Might work for parts theft but cant see it working for metal theft, except that they maybe wont be quite so fast on a less familiar target

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Lee Power

A vehicle with a manicat would be the better option against catalytic convertor theft.

Instead of the cat being underneath the car where its easy to get to, its bolted directly to the exhaust manifold which is attached to the engine.

It means the thieves would need to open the bonnet / spend more time trying to remove one.

I know Peugeot / Citroen has been fitting them for many years & now so does Toyota on there newer vehicle designs.

There will be plenty of other manufacturers doing the same.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Bolt

A vehicle with a manicat would be the better option against catalytic convertor theft.

Instead of the cat being underneath the car where its easy to get to, its bolted directly to the exhaust manifold which is attached to the engine.

It means the thieves would need to open the bonnet / spend more time trying to remove one.

I know Peugeot / Citroen has been fitting them for many years & now so does Toyota on there newer vehicle designs.

There will be plenty of other manufacturers doing the same.

Honda fitted them to manifold from 2015 onwards if that helps, an undertray was fitted from 2008 which some leave off after work being done (not that it is much of a deterrent)

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - skidpan

Or a diesel, (banger or not, since AFAIK DPF;s have no rare metal content) if that would work for you.

Wrong.

All the diesels we owned with the possible exception of one (a Polo 1.9 D) had a catalyst. No idea what is inside them but since they are there to do the same job as a petrol cat I cannot see them being different.

DPF's do contain precious metals, the matrix is coated in platinum.

Of the 3 cars we owned with DPF's 2 were bolted pretty much to the turbo so were well out of harms way to sneak thieves. On the other it was under low down behind the engine making it more vulnerable.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Steveieb
Met someone at the Toyota Main Dealer who had experienced a theft of his cat and was exchanging the car for a Avensis which has the cat tucked safely out of harms way.
So not all Toyotas are targeted ?
Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - skidpan
Met someone at the Toyota Main Dealer who had experienced a theft of his cat and was exchanging the car for a Avensis which has the cat tucked safely out of harms way. So not all Toyotas are targeted ?

A replacement cat for an Auris is about £300. Trading the Auris for the Avensis would cost far more.

So why not fit the new cat, a device to prevent future issues (genuine Catloc is about £250 - cheaper ones are available) and carry on, its cheaper.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Steveieb
That's true Skidpan but I suspect the car was on lease and an exchange was arranged .
Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - edlithgow

OK, I stand corrected. Not had either so far, and would quite like to keep it that way; but I should have looked it up.

Diesel banger (pre 2009 ish) only then for no DPF.

As opposed to pre-1990 ish for a no-cat petrol banger, 20 years earlier.

This still seems to imply that target-free diesels are likely to be more available than target-free petrols.

IIRC some (Nissans?) with the cat on or near the manifold have a habit of sicking bits of matrix back into the engine, so there may be a downside to such a security solution.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - nick62

To save your cat in future, get a dog, preferably one who hates scumbags.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - madf

Mark 1 Jazz catalyst is vehicle of choice for cat thieves.

Mark2 far less easy - behind engine,

Cat protection devices on ebay.

Buy replacement systems ebay incl sensors - cheap. Shows how bad it is.

I think people who love cats so much they steal them should have the cats welded to a delicate part of their anatomy to prevent recurrence.

FB marketplace full of unsaleable Mark 1 Jazz with no cats.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - mcb100
It’s hybrids that are targeted because their cats are deemed to be more valuable as they run for 50% of the time on battery, not passing gases through the cat.
Lexus RX is a real target - not only a hybrid, but more room to work underneath.
Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - movilogo

Hybrids have more amount of precious metails in their cats - hence, more often targetted by thieves.

I personally know 3 Auris owners who had their cats stolen - from driveway at night as well as from work car park in daytime.

Newer Toyotas come with better protection so that cats harder to remove.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - johncyprus

We sold our Mk1 Jazz after the cat was stolen, just didn’t want to go through that experience again. It’s not just the cat that will need replacing, we needed two lamba sensors had to wait two months for these. You can fit second hand or pattern sensors but I understand they don’t always last as well as OE. Also under trays need replacing. On the Jazz forum I read about a Jazz that was lifted by thieves and presumably on seeing the cat lock ( or similar ) the cat was crushed by their jack. Nice people.

It’s only the Mk1 Jazz vulnerable to cat theft, the later versions are safe.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - edlithgow

Hybrids have more amount of precious metails in their cats - hence, more often targetted by thieves.

Why would that be? Offhand I can't think of any reason for such a difference.

I suppose an engine in a hybrid has a less variable power demand on it, but if anything I'd expect that to result in lower demands on the catalyst.

Hybrids more expensive so expected to last longer?

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - mcintosh

Hybrids have more amount of precious metails in their cats - hence, more often targetted by thieves.

Why would that be? Offhand I can't think of any reason for such a difference.

I suppose an engine in a hybrid has a less variable power demand on it, but if anything I'd expect that to result in lower demands on the catalyst.

Hybrids more expensive so expected to last longer?

The cats in hybrids tend to be cleaner (and hence the metals in better condition) because they don’t have to work so hard.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - edlithgow
It’s hybrids that are targeted because their cats are deemed to be more valuable as they run for 50% of the time on battery, not passing gases through the cat.

Can't see why this would matter much.

I suppose some metal might be lost in use, breaking off and blowing out of the exhaust, but generally I'd think the catalyst won't be consumed to any significant extent.

I'd think catalyst failure is usually be due to to blockage or poisoning

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - skidpan

Hybrids have more amount of precious metails in their cats - hence, more often targetted by thieves.

Surely a CAT needs enough metal in it to reduce the emissions to the level required. That level is the same for a hybrid or non-hybrid.

Its more likely certain cars are targeted simply because its known they are easy to rob.

The fact Toyota offers the parts suggests they know about this. If they are so vulnerable Toyota should offer to fix the issue FOC. Perhaps they are not such a perfect car company after all.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Perfection

Update:

The Auris has been recoverd to a garage via insurance claims. The recovery company says they pick up about 50 Auris a week for same parts stolen, just in a local region.

Also talked to Toyota dealer they confirmed it is a widespread issue and they said the only car that they their knowledge that not been targeted is the CRH as it is a taller car. The dealer offers the cage lock at £250. But I don't think this will deter the thief, because it only extends the thief time from 2 minutes to 4 minutes for pro thief. So this is not a viable option. The car will have to be replaced as the family member thinks they will return when the part has been replaced.

Regarding to the Honda Jazz petrol, I have mixed views on whether it is targeted or not. I talked to the Honda dealer and they said most targeted year is the 2000 to 2008 models. They don't think the models after 2008 are targeted, the design has changed?

Well for now I have parked the Jazz on the drive and move my older car with no cat on the road.

Edited by Perfection on 20/04/2021 at 18:01

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - madf

Update:

Regarding to the Honda Jazz petrol, I have mixed views on whether it is targeted or not. I talked to the Honda dealer and they said most targeted year is the 2000 to 2008 models. They don't think the models after 2008 are targeted, the design has changed?

Well for now I have parked the Jazz on the drive and move my older car with no cat on the road.

The Mark 1 Jazz has the cat under the front floor pan so access to cut is superb.

In the Mark 2 it is mounted above the front subframe and near vertical so cutting the top of the pipe is not a viable option.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - movilogo

The dealer offers the cage lock at £250. But I don't think this will deter the thief,

You are right. Here is the proof if you read the users comments below the article.

mag.toyota.co.uk/catalytic-converter-theft-how-to-.../

Here is a report from Met police on stats of how many cats stolen from which makes.

www.met.police.uk/cy-GB/SysSiteAssets/foi-media/me...9

You can clearly see Toyota is leader followed by Honda and Lexus distant 3rd. Other makes have negligible numbers.

Edited by movilogo on 20/04/2021 at 20:13

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Xileno

It could be interesting to see what happens to residual values of the cars that are particularly eagerly targeted. It's not just the expense but also the inconvenience of it all.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - sammy1

The car alarms on these cars do not appear to be very sensitive You would think that jacking a car up and cutting underneath would trigger it Sooner of later a car is going to fall on one of these thieves and if they survive they will probably sue the owner!

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - bathtub tom

You would think that jacking a car up and cutting underneath would trigger it Sooner of later a car is going to fall on one of these thieves and if they survive they will probably sue the owner!

There's been one fatality I'm aware of, where the thief cut a fence to get into a compound. He was found, crushed, the next day after the jack failed.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Andrew-T

The car alarms on these cars do not appear to be very sensitive You would think that jacking a car up and cutting underneath would trigger it

You would certainly think that. I would also think that when car alarms go off, many people will do nothing except comment. Even when it goes off outside one's own house .... ?

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - RGCRob

This is a crime that has been becoming more common. It's true hybrid cats have more valuable elements however as I understand it thieves will take any cat they can get their hands on.

Without a secure place to park your car overnight it's a tough one to avoid if you're targeted. CCTV trained on your vehicle could help you identify anyone who does it, but it depends how likely you think it is to happen again.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - skidpan

It's true hybrid cats have more valuable elements.

Why?

The CAT in a hybrid and a conventional petrol engine do exactly the same job i.e. remove/convert polluting gasses. The IC engine in a hybrid would only need a CAT with more "valuable elements" if it produced more pollutants than the engine in a conventional IC engined car but it doesn't, in truth it produces less since it should be running less of the time.

So tell us, what is the science behind a hybrid needing a better CAT.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - madf

It's true hybrid cats have more valuable elements.

Why?

The CAT in a hybrid and a conventional petrol engine do exactly the same job i.e. remove/convert polluting gasses. The IC engine in a hybrid would only need a CAT with more "valuable elements" if it produced more pollutants than the engine in a conventional IC engined car but it doesn't, in truth it produces less since it should be running less of the time.

So tell us, what is the science behind a hybrid needing a better CAT.

A conventional IC car has the engine running most of the time. So the Cat stays hot and does its job .

A hybrid around town can run on battery power alone. So the Cat cools down a the engine is not in use. And takes time to warm up again when the engine restarts. So it does not work for a period of time.

#

Given that a hybrid can run up to 30 miles in town on battery power.. which could be more than an hour - the cat could be stone cold - as indeed the engine could be. So it's like starting from cold - and emissions are highest on a cold engine

(Which basically means stop/start is a way of saving fuel but increasing emissions)

WLTP does not take that into account iirc.

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - movilogo

I don't know exact internal details, but hybrid catalytic converters are usually less corroded which fetches better value in stolen goods market.

Toyota says they have reduced precious metal content in their new models' cats. That begs the question why it was higher content in previous models. May be it is like adding more sugar to cake, like more precious metal leading to better emission figures?

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - madf

I don't know exact internal details, but hybrid catalytic converters are usually less corroded which fetches better value in stolen goods market.

Toyota says they have reduced precious metal content in their new models' cats. That begs the question why it was higher content in previous models. May be it is like adding more sugar to cake, like more precious metal leading to better emission figures?

It is called "progress in technology".

Better matrix, better flow design, thinner coatings.

Takes years in development..

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Steveieb

My DIL has a mk 1 Yaris which is Y reg and she parks it on the road.

Is this one of the cars that the thieves target ?

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - edlithgow

I don't know exact internal details, but hybrid catalytic converters are usually less corroded which fetches better value in stolen goods market.

Toyota says they have reduced precious metal content in their new models' cats. That begs the question why it was higher content in previous models. May be it is like adding more sugar to cake, like more precious metal leading to better emission figures?

But I don;t think they are usually "stolen goods" as in potential spare parts.

I think they are "stolen goods" as in actual scrap metal. The rare metals in the catalysts get extracted, which would require processing even with a brand new never used catalyst, since it'll have to be separated from the ceramic support matrix.

So I wouldn't have thought age or condition would make much difference

Honda and Toyota - Catylist convertor theft - Xileno

Doesn't seem to be any end in sight regarding these thefts:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56882495