Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Trilogy.

To enable Citroen to gain traction in the premium sector the company is to make rebadged Audis. www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-ds-9-saloo...p

[I've renamed the subject to more accurately reflect the content of the article in case someone is using the search facility. I can't see any reference in the article that the Citroen will be based on an Audi, just that it is a potential Audi rival - I'm sure that in itself will ruffle a few feathers... Xileno]

Edited by Xileno on 09/04/2021 at 07:25

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

Don't see anything about Audi mentioned?, says the new cars will be based on the Peugeot 508 platform.

Edited by Xileno on 09/04/2021 at 07:26

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - _ORB_

It did say an "Audi Rival"

vague shades of an A% ?

Edited by Xileno on 09/04/2021 at 07:26

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - JonestHon

April 1st was seven days ago.

Edited by Xileno on 09/04/2021 at 07:27

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Metropolis.

A Citroen made in China, with torsion beam rear suspension (on petrol only version). Amazing that this is supposed to be the premium end of Citroen!

Edited by Xileno on 09/04/2021 at 07:27

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

Should have specifically said, nothing about re-badged Audi's mentioned!.

As to the fact that it is made in China and has torsion beam rear suspension?. Most manufacturers now make cars in China, that is nothing new in itself. The suspension, well it does say in the article the majority will be sold in China, where the saloon car is very much still the favoured body style, (particularly with plenty of rear legroom) but handling prowess is largely irrelevant. Hence the less sophisticated but cheaper to produce rear suspension.

Edited by Xileno on 09/04/2021 at 07:27

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - jc2
Bring back the DS19!
Citroen to produce Audi competitor - madf

Citroens have been also rans for decades.

(do NOT quote me any cars shared with Toyota)

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Falkirk Bairn

New Citroen saloon - maybe the President of France is needing a new official car.

Micron is above being driven around in a German car - they could insert a 1 metre extension to the wheelbase and make it into a Presidential Limo - he needs it for the "head" room certainly not the legroom.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - skidpan

To enable Citroen to gain traction in the premium sector the company is to make rebadged Audis.

I have read through the AutoCar article 3 tomes now and acn see no reference to it being a "rebadged" Audi.

Where is this mysterious fact or have AutoCar removed it?

Does appear to built down to a price. Torsion beam axles are fine but normally the go to solution for small/medium cars, VAG fit independent to their plusher variants of some models even if the pauper spec gets a torsion beam. Cannot think of another wanabe premium car with such a system.

Looks like another failure looms.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - alan1302

I have read through the AutoCar article 3 tomes now and acn see no reference to it being a "rebadged" Audi.

Where is this mysterious fact or have AutoCar removed it?


Not sure but think the OP may have tried being humours and hinting it looks like an Audi?

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Trilogy.

I have read through the AutoCar article 3 tomes now and acn see no reference to it being a "rebadged" Audi.

Where is this mysterious fact or have AutoCar removed it?


Not sure but think the OP may have tried being humours and hinting it looks like an Audi?

I won't be adding any more to my original post.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - John F

"Range topping executive saloon.........up to 355bhp"

It's certainly a looker, but I don't think Audi have much to be worried about. When I was in China, it was noticeable how many A6L cars there were on the roads.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Metropolis.

Audi were one of the first foreign car companies to set up production in China in the 80s, with a domestically produced Audi 100 (i think, not au fait with Audis). Come to think of it the Hongqi brand even built Audis themselves, again the 100 model (wikipedia helping me now) for quite a while, up until 2005. I think Audi have found their way into the red Chinese conciousness (and wallets) as a result of a useful combination of being first, German (they won't buy Japanese but ignore the other axis members) and premium. Audi are still a favourite among local "people's" government types, unless they're too senior and therefore forced into a Hongqi. The real surprise is how many Buicks they have, I think the Buick brand would have died a death in 2008 if it wasn't for the Chinese market. Sat in a GL8 on the way from the red zone to (slightly less red) Macau and it was super comfortable, dated in a classic American early 2000s way which I like, retaining the soft overstuffed seats, loads of space and smooth v6 upfront paired with typical GM slushbox. American cars always seem to have brilliant aircon, too. I guess that car also had a torsion beam rear suspension!
Sorry I have an awful habit of digressing on this forum... at least this time the OP isn't asking a specific question :)

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Metropolis.

I am just surprised they are opting for a less sophisticated cheaper to produce rear suspension, on the PREMIUM model. My angle wasn't actually on handling, but on ride comfort. It feels weird complaining about this as I do actually like solid rear axles on cars as it can work very well, (Lincoln Town Car, for example), but that achieves a fantastic ride via very soft suspension.

As to being made in China, not a problem, CCP has extremely high import taxes. But sending them back to France for French buyers? Non non non!

The Chinese market still isn't a driver's market really, they want space, technology and convenience. Hence even the BMW 3 series has a long wheel base model with the smallest engine!

Again it feels wierd being the one to criticise a solid rear axle (if we can call it an axle in this instance?) as I have long been a champion of what I call the 'solid axle head sway'. Watch any pickup truck from the rear as it drives along a bumpy road. You'll see the occupant's heads do a sway which as a driver i find reassuring. Maybe this Citroen is the car for me!

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Engineer Andy

What happened to DS then? I thought that was supposed to be the upmarket, sporty Citroen when they were split off a few years ago. Followed by a spectacular drop in sales of DS models, especially the DS3, which previously was very popular.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - 72 dudes

What happened to DS then? I thought that was supposed to be the upmarket, sporty Citroen when they were split off a few years ago. Followed by a spectacular drop in sales of DS models, especially the DS3, which previously was very popular.

So much confusion on this thread.

Andy, we are indeed talking about DS!

The DS9 is the new large saloon based on the current Peugeot 508.

Shame Citroen have decided to build it in China, not sure how the patriotic French will feel about that.

I suspect that it will be another sales flop over here, no matter how good it is.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Engineer Andy

What happened to DS then? I thought that was supposed to be the upmarket, sporty Citroen when they were split off a few years ago. Followed by a spectacular drop in sales of DS models, especially the DS3, which previously was very popular.

So much confusion on this thread.

Andy, we are indeed talking about DS!

The DS9 is the new large saloon based on the current Peugeot 508.

Shame Citroen have decided to build it in China, not sure how the patriotic French will feel about that.

I suspect that it will be another sales flop over here, no matter how good it is.

I thought the thread was about Citroen doing something new. I can't see this working for them, as evidenced by many makes trying the same and failing miserably, notably Nissan. I thought that the whole point was that Pug were going upmarket, leaving Citroen to compete with the likes of the South Koreans, Ford, Nissan, FIAT, Seat, Skoda & Co at the affordable mid-range market.

The problem is many makes are now trying to go upmarket - rather a crowded field with all the Germans and specialist Japanese sub-brands (e.g. Lexus), plus JLR. Citroen has no cache in luxury with performance and/or reliability.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

What happened to DS then? I thought that was supposed to be the upmarket, sporty Citroen when they were split off a few years ago. Followed by a spectacular drop in sales of DS models, especially the DS3, which previously was very popular.

So much confusion on this thread.

Andy, we are indeed talking about DS!

The DS9 is the new large saloon based on the current Peugeot 508.

Shame Citroen have decided to build it in China, not sure how the patriotic French will feel about that.

I suspect that it will be another sales flop over here, no matter how good it is.

I thought the thread was about Citroen doing something new. I can't see this working for them, as evidenced by many makes trying the same and failing miserably, notably Nissan. I thought that the whole point was that Pug were going upmarket, leaving Citroen to compete with the likes of the South Koreans, Ford, Nissan, FIAT, Seat, Skoda & Co at the affordable mid-range market.

The problem is many makes are now trying to go upmarket - rather a crowded field with all the Germans and specialist Japanese sub-brands (e.g. Lexus), plus JLR. Citroen has no cache in luxury with performance and/or reliability.

This is all kind of ignoring the point that the car is designed for the Chinese, in China (along with possibly a few other countries where saloon cars are still de rigour). I think I can say with about 95% certainty, maybe a little more, that it will never come to the UK, possibly not even to Europe full stop.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - pd

The article is actually about it coming to the UK and gives a price. So it will be coming although no doubt in small numbers.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - S40 Man

Followed by a spectacular drop in sales of DS models, especially the DS3, which previously was very popular. ---

Probably because they subsequently upped the prices. Not every brand can be premium can it?

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - mcb100
Someone had better tell the good folks at PSA head office in Coventry - DS9 is on DS’ UK website.
The article is from February, and the car is now on sale via your nearest DS Store or Salon.

Edited by mcb100 on 09/04/2021 at 18:56

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

The article is actually about it coming to the UK and gives a price. So it will be coming although no doubt in small numbers.

Oops!, I'd be no use describing a suspect to the Police :-(

I'm very surprised though, given DS are not actually doing that well sales wise, why would they be wasting time bringing in this, which hardly anyone will buy?. The only saloon cars which do a lot of sales in the UK are ones pedalled by Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Engineer Andy

The article is actually about it coming to the UK and gives a price. So it will be coming although no doubt in small numbers.

Oops!, I'd be no use describing a suspect to the Police :-(

I'm very surprised though, given DS are not actually doing that well sales wise, why would they be wasting time bringing in this, which hardly anyone will buy?. The only saloon cars which do a lot of sales in the UK are ones pedalled by Audi, BMW and Mercedes.

Indeed - my Mazda3 saloon is rare, and judging by the numbers I see in comparison to hatches, I'd say by well over 10 to 1. Premium sports saloons are popular, but I think that the SUVs, even from BMW and Audi, are slowly eating into that market.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - skidpan

China was the source of the Mk 1 Skoda Superb. It was manufactured originally in China as a China only model LWB Passat for the new money in China and Skoda saw it as the perfect base for a range flagship. Skoda grille and badges were the only changes made.

As noted above saloons are not the biggest sellers in the market now (Audi, BMW and Merc are exceptions) even the Passat saloon is not a great seller (think the Estate outsells it) so its easy to see why Skoda have made the Mk 2 and Mk 3 Superb's hatches but retained a small boot deck to keep a saloon profile, keeps all markets happy.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

China was the source of the Mk 1 Skoda Superb. It was manufactured originally in China as a China only model LWB Passat for the new money in China and Skoda saw it as the perfect base for a range flagship. Skoda grille and badges were the only changes made.

That is different to my understanding of how the Superb came about, though maybe the stories combine at some point?.

What I read was that VW developed the LWB Passat (I seem to remember it being referred to as 'Passat Plus') as a more prestigious car to sit above the standard Passat but decided, after most of the development had ben done, to do a purpose built 'luxury' car instead (Ferdinand Piech's doing I believe) and brought us the Phaeton instead. And so with this LWB Passat platform kicking about looking for a home, Skoda took it.

I don't recall reading about Chinese involvement at the time, but given their love of a LWB saloon, it does make sense that a LWB Passat would sell well over there.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - skidpan

though maybe the stories combine at some point.

very possible but just found this:

"The first generation of the modern Škoda Superb used the Volkwagen group B5 PL45+ platform which was also used on 1999 Shanghai–Volkswagen Passat B5 LWB"

But considering the Chinese LWB Passat seems to predate the Phaeton by approx 4 years and the Superb arrived in 2001 logic seems to suggest the Chinese connection is more logical.

Perhaps the Phaeton was originally intended to be a LWB Passat but as we know ended up being based on the same platform as the Bentley Continental

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - RT

though maybe the stories combine at some point.

very possible but just found this:

"The first generation of the modern Škoda Superb used the Volkwagen group B5 PL45+ platform which was also used on 1999 Shanghai–Volkswagen Passat B5 LWB"

But considering the Chinese LWB Passat seems to predate the Phaeton by approx 4 years and the Superb arrived in 2001 logic seems to suggest the Chinese connection is more logical.

Perhaps the Phaeton was originally intended to be a LWB Passat but as we know ended up being based on the same platform as the Bentley Continental

The Phaeton development predates VW's ownership of Bentley and was Piech's vanity project to build a Mercedes-Benz S-class competitor - that's why the platform is good enough to use for the Bentley Continental.

I seem to recall that one version of the VW Passat built and sold in the USA was the same as our Superb.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - mcb100

It was a disappointment that Skoda dropped the 'Twin Door' arrangement the Superb Mk2 had, which offered the option of either opening a saloon boot or hatchback by altering the order in which buttons were pushed.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

It was a disappointment that Skoda dropped the 'Twin Door' arrangement the Superb Mk2 had, which offered the option of either opening a saloon boot or hatchback by altering the order in which buttons were pushed.

Might have been practical, but it was a somewhat awkward looking car. The estate was (IMO) a much more balanced looking thing.

The Renault Safrane had an arrangement (just the top of the range versions), where was a separate glass window which sealed the space behind the rear headrests. Meaning the rear seat occupants were sheltered from the elements were the tailgate opened.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - mcb100

It was a huge step for the Skoda network at the time, having the Superb 2. The original car looked like a 125% scale Octavia, whilst the 2 moved things on hugely.

I worked on the launch of it, spending a week demoing self parking at Millbrook Proving Ground, followed by taking it around the dealerships. The LHD car I used created a lot of attention whilst out and about, with people repeatedly asking if it was really a Skoda.

The highlight for one dealer in Northern Ireland was that you could play DVD's in car (stationary, obviously), never mind all the other good stuff we could show him.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - badbusdriver

It was a huge step for the Skoda network at the time, having the Superb 2. The original car looked like a 125% scale Octavia, whilst the 2 moved things on hugely.

I'd have said the original Superb looked much more like an elongated Passat than an enlarged Octavia.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - sammy1

Turning into the SKODA forum again!!

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Trilogy.

Citroen XM too, bbd. jalopnik.com/the-citroen-xm-came-with-a-hidden-tri...2

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Xileno

I was just going to mention the XM. I never knew the Safrane has this feature though.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - pd

Issue with the Superb hatch was it was expensive and heavy. I suspect for the extra sales it generated it simply didn't make cost sense on the Mk 3

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - mcb100

I wouldn't have fancied lifting one without gas struts, that's for sure. The only similar one I've seen was on the BMW 5 Series GT.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - skidpan

Issue with the Superb hatch was it was expensive and heavy.

We looked at one when it was the current model and even though it had struts they were of little help, the Mrs could not lift it. Although she would have still had the option of the boot lid on occasions the hatch would have been needed.

Not one of Skoda's "Simply Clever" ideas. Complicated and totally unnecessary to tell the truth.

The estate was a fine car but too big for the garage we had at the time.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - daveyK_UK
DS9 is to show off the DS brand with a flag shop model, a big like Hyundai and the Genesis stuff

Interestingly, the new Opel Insignia & Alfa Romeo Giulia will also be based on the 508 platform


Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Trilogy.

I wouldn't have fancied lifting one without gas struts, that's for sure. The only similar one I've seen was on the BMW 5 Series GT.

Electric tailgate would solve that.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - _ORB_

Citroen to produce C5X which will compete with the DS9???

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Trilogy.

Citroen to produce C5X which will compete with the DS9???

Another sales flop - at least in the UK. Seems Ciroen have used their imagination with this one, not an Audi grille in sight.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - pd

I'm pleased to see Citroen is continuing to try in this segment.

No one can accuse them of not having history of large, comfy, uniquely styled large cars. There is a lot to be said for a car which prioritises comfort over anything else.

I wonder if any of the CX, XM or C6 made any money in the end.

The last C5 in hydropneumatic guise was criminally underrated btw and drove like no other car in production. Not everyone's taste perhaps but nice to see something different.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Metropolis.

"There is a lot to be said for a car which prioritises comfort over anything else."

Exactly. Same reason I love American Land Yachts.

Citroen to produce Audi competitor - Engineer Andy

"There is a lot to be said for a car which prioritises comfort over anything else."

Exactly. Same reason I love American Land Yachts.

I'd prefer a car that prioritises safety, security and reliability/longevity. That doesn't mean I want one that doesn't think performance, styling and comfort are important.

I certainly wouldn't want one of ths US cars that bounce when you put the breaks on, or that leans so much when cornering that they make the tower at Pisa look straight.

I do agree that most cars/manufacturers have not got the balance right between handling/grip and comfort for nigh on 20 years now. And it's not just down to the choice of wheels and tyres either.

What doesn't go down well in my book either is where some makes compensate for this by designing incredibly expensive and complex suspension systems that either go firm relatively quickly and/or cost a fortune to repair when the inevitable wear and tear means parts do need replacing. Not helped by cars getting bigger, taller and heavier through each generation.

 

Value my car