What is the purpose of this forum? - badbusdriver

Might seem like a grand philosophical question, but bear with me!.

My understanding of it is for folk to discuss motoring related topics. Someone might say something which someone else disagrees with, and they say so. For the most part, this seems to work well enough, though occasionally neither party will back down, things get heated, and a moderator has to intervene. Very occasionally, someone, I'm thinking particularly about someone who shares how name with a famous Fireman, comes along and posts stuff so offensive it needs to be removed, as it should. But unless said post is obviously and deliberately offensive, (as far as I am concerned) it should be left as is.

But, as I have discovered very recently, it also appears that a post with no obvious offensive content can be simply removed with no explanation, simply because (presumably) someone decides it has offended them.

To that end, I have a few questions.

1, What is the criteria for a post to be removed?. Mine, as far as I am aware, was not offensive, so can I just decide any post is offensive, click the button, and it will be removed no questions asked?.

2, If the above is not the case, what is the level of perceived offence where a moderator would say to the complainant, "I can't see anything offensive so I'm not prepared to remove the post" (it would be helpful to know this for future reference).

3, This is more aimed at whoever decided my post caused such offence it needed to be removed completely. If you can't discuss your grievance, what is the point in using a forum, or indeed any other form of social media?.

I'm not big on social media myself, just this forum at the moment. But from what I hear, other forms of social media are pretty much a free for all in terms of being offensive to others. This is the main reason I don't use it. In the years I have been a forum member, I think only once or twice have I clicked on the offence button. The reason being that virtually nothing I have read on the forum has been offensive enough to do so. There are plenty I read which I disagree with, for which I am free to post a response should I choose to......

.........Because (and the circle is now complete!), that is (IMO) what the forum is for.

So, if the moderator and/or higher ups in the forum hierarchy don't feel differences of opinion should be allowed to exist, and that forum members who take umbrage with something someone else says, shouldn't (at least initially) deal with it themselves (unless clearly, obviously and deliberately offensive), them what do they think the forum is for?

As an aside, obviously I'm only aware of anything I post going missing (and then not always), but it makes me curious whether anyone else has had a post removed for no apparent reason (i.e, it was not, in your opinion, offensive and/or derogatory)?.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Avant

Can you tell me what this is about, BBD?

I'm the only one who deletes posts, and I do so only if it's spam or if it's personally offensive to someone. I've never removed any of your posts, nor would expect to, given that you're invariably helpful to others on here.

If you or anyone else has a problem of this nature, please Email me at

moderators@honestjohn.co.uk

rather than publicly.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Engineer Andy

Hopefully Avant can answer most of the above, but an additional question, linked to yours is whether the site now or has been using any kind of 'autofilter', other than making specific 'naughty' or verboten words go ****, rather like the room with the cooker in it when, we were getting a shed load of spam from people wanting to sell dodgy fitted you-know-whats.

Some of the newspapers allow anything, others are much more draconian, often using harsh auto moderation including deleting entire comments when you click 'Post message' but not telling you the offending word.

Often a matter of guesswork, but some won't allow 'rude' words - even if they are someone's name (e.g. the Met Commissioner's surname) or split into the end of one word and the start of the next. Additionally, a mod may manually designate certain verboten words for an article.

Occasionally, a post of mine has gone, though sometimes they return the next day. It could just as easily be the same software Gremlins that account for the 'New' post system acting up on our forum.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Avant

It could be that, Andy, although the spam filter (which is now working better but still not infallably) stops the post being seen at all - whereas BBD seeme to have had a post first displayed then removed.

Otherwise we just have the swear filter, which in the nature of these things is indiscriminate, so that Dame Cressida, Mr Wenger and the planet between Saturn and Neptune all fall foul of it.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Engineer Andy

It could be that, Andy, although the spam filter (which is now working better but still not infallably) stops the post being seen at all - whereas BBD seeme to have had a post first displayed then removed.

Otherwise we just have the swear filter, which in the nature of these things is indiscriminate, so that Dame Cressida, Mr Wenger and the planet between Saturn and Neptune all fall foul of it.

Sadly, quite a few things appear to fall foul of the 'naughty words' filter - I suppose it doesn't help that so many engineering terms are double entendres.

It could be that the spam filter is to blame for the 'deletions'. I was going to say it might be worth you posting a list of the words that result in them, but that wouldn't end well for obvious reasons!

I'm sure also our friends from Africa and parts of the Far East who are the spam regulars would make just as much good use of that list as we would, albeit for polar opposite purposes.

What I tend to do for longer posts (so I don't get frustrated or have to remember everything I typed) is to copy the post before I upload it to Notepad or similar, just in case. If I have to repost one, I'll then have a look over it to see if any words/phrases might fall foul, like the cooking room.

What is the purpose of this forum? - badbusdriver

Avant, I apologise if my post going missing was as a result of outside interference(?) or a technical problem, as opposed to what I assumed.

I posted a comment yesterday morning on the 'Questions About Engine Size & Horsepower', took a long time researching the info I was looking for. Anyway, thought about something else related this morning, went to add it in, but lo and behold, the post was gone!.

This has happened before actually (couple of years ago), and while I don't remember the specifics, I do remember that post also involved a fair amount of time searching for the info I wanted to make my point.

I was annoyed at the time, as I was today, as much because of the time element as anything else. But I am way too lazy to bear a grudge, so if it was nowt to do with anyone at the forum, please accept my humble apologies and feel free to delete the thread.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Xileno

There are definitely some odd issues with the software, for example the edit button which I have managed to occasionally get active days after the usual ten min (?) timeout. Also I think some posts do go AWOL, were there really no posts on the 1st and 5th Feb?

Edited by Xileno on 24/02/2021 at 21:04

What is the purpose of this forum? - Senexdriver

I posted on the Best car cleaning approach and products thread and after a day or two my post disappeared. Nothing offensive, just a broad description of my approach, but it was missing shortly after posting.

On reflection, I did say something like I wouldn’t want to buy a car that had been cleaned by some of the previous posters, but that’s hardly offensive. Or is it?

What is the purpose of this forum? - Zippy123

I have had innocent postings vanish.

It was put down to dodgy software and there is a whole thread about it somewhere.

What is the purpose of this forum? - badbusdriver

I have had innocent postings vanish.

It was put down to dodgy software and there is a whole thread about it somewhere.

If I'm remembering that same post, it was, as far as I recall, regarding posts going missing in between members computers/devices and appearing on the forum (and they would, in my experience anyway, eventually appear a few hours later). I'm talking about a post which was on the forum, then disappeared.

On reflection, I did say something like I wouldn’t want to buy a car that had been cleaned by some of the previous posters, but that’s hardly offensive. Or is it?

Hard to say Senexdriver, I mean it certainly doesn't appear offensive in any way to me, but it seems these days there are a multitude of people out there desperate to be offended by something!.

What is the purpose of this forum? - barney100

I've had the odd post vanish but just put it down to the vagaries of technology or me pressing the wrong key.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Xileno

The Tiger Woods thread has disappeared but I suspect that was deleted on purpose, sailing too close to the wind in my view.

What is the purpose of this forum? - maxime

The Tiger Woods thread has disappeared but I suspect that was deleted on purpose, sailing too close to the wind in my view.

Put it in the search box and it appears.

What is the purpose of this forum? - paul 1963

That's strange my post regarding car cleaning posted just after senexdrivers has gone as Well?

What is the purpose of this forum? - Xileno

So it is, I can see the Tiger Woods thread now - I am sure it wasn't there earlier. Also I see the top three 'sticky' threads have been updated this morning around 8am but there are no new posts within them.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Avant

The Tiger Woods thread is still there - it's headed 'Hyundai Genesis - Accident'.

Like many of you, I am fed to the teeth with this stupid software, for no logical reason, hiding perfectly valid posts. and often failing to hide spam posts. (The top three sticky threads had spam in them this morning, hence the update). I will try Kalpesh again but although he does his best I'm not sure how much he'll be able to do.

I can assure you that I haven't taken down any of the posts mentioned above, although it's quite understandable that people think that I have.. They are still visible on my screen as moderator, but not when I log out and see it as you do.

I will tell Kalpesh and our editor that I am not prepared to carry on moderating the forum unless something is done.

Finally, here is the post that BBD made, that led him to start this thread.

I seem to remember when 3-pot engines appeared, there was talk of some Japanese theory that 330cc was an optimum size for a cylinder, so three made an ideal 1-litre engine ?

I don't know where you've read this but I don't buy it myself. The Japanese don't commonly use 1.0 engines themselves. The Kei car class, currently, is up to 660cc and the engines used are either 3 or 4 cyl, the original Kei cars were 360cc, so neither old nor new have 330cc per cylinder. The Toyota Century, surely the pinnacle of Japanese luxury cars, started out in 1967 with a 2599cc V8 which is indeed (nearly) 330cc per cyl, but if they thought that was the optimum size for a cyl, why would they then increase the displacement, firstly to a 3376c V8, then a 3994cc V8?. The 2nd gen cars, from 1997, had a 5.0 V12, so not 330cc per cyl. Then when the Lexus LS400 was introduced, it was a pretty much 'money no object' car, to show what they could do. But instead of using a 330cc per cyl engine, they used a 496cc per cyl V8.

When I first heard that theory it was in connection with the Ferrari 330, which had a 4 litre V12 engine although it seems the engine had been around for a few years already when the 330 came out.

I have had a ride in a 330 Spyder. I completely failed to notice the similarity when I was stuck with using a Citroen C1 for about a month. Impressive in its way but the drone got to me. I'm sure it would have been better with the other 9 cylinders.

There was no 'theory' at Ferrari re 330cc being the optimum cylinder size, it's just a coincidence. Think about it, Ferrari made their first V12 in 1947 and they have been featured in the lineup ever since, so circa 74 years. The total production time of V12 engines with a displacement of around four litres adds up to no more than 16 years.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Bromptonaut

I definitely saw that post from BBD earlier in the week.

What is the purpose of this forum? - RT

I definitely saw that post from BBD earlier in the week.

Me too

What is the purpose of this forum? - _ORB_

I have noticed posts and replies missing too.

I have written to the editor, (Avant can kindly supply the email) to say that in all the other forums I frequent, chevrolet, kia and mg-rover.org I have never seen spam.

What is the purpose of this forum? - Avant

Thanks ORB.

If anyone wants to write to them, the addresses are:

kalpesh@honestjohn.co.uk

editor@honestjohn.co.uk

What is the purpose of this forum? - concrete

I put all these things down to gliches in the technology or software. Vagaries have to be accepted as part of the deal I suppose. Don't envy Avant his job at all, bit of a thankless task but I and many others do appreciate his deft handling of situations to date. So well done. I can understand why BBD is frustrated, as pointed out he regularly gives well researched replies which are helpful and courteous. It must be annoying if they get lost in the ether. lets hope that Kalpesh can provide a solution, until then we will simply have to continue as we have previously.

Cheers Concrete

 

Value my car