Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Brek1

Asking for a friend (really)..

She will be retiring soon and wants to buy a small used car for about £8k. Possibilities include Honda Jazz, Toyota Yaris 1.3 or Yaris Hybrid.

Would it be better to go for the hybrid? I have heard they are more reliable that the IC engine versions? How do they age?. Say she buys one at 7 years old will it last another 7-8 years without major repairs (they have no clutch, right?).

Driving is mixed market town, rural, occasional motorway, occasional big city. Probably 8k miles a year.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - madf

Annual licence fees: Yaris hybrid £0, Jazz £20

Mpg Yaris 55-65, Jazz 50-55

Insurance ? more expensive than ICE on Jazz

Yaris? dunno.

Pre 2013 Jazz has NiCad batteries, post then Lion

10 year old Nicads will be end of life.

Yaris batteries should last 10-12 years.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Heidfirst

Yaris batteries should last 10-12 years.

As long as it has/has had an annual Hybrid Health Check/Hybrid Electric Service the batteries are warrantied for 15 years. www.toyota.co.uk/owners/warranty/toyota-warranty (scroll down).

You would have to look at the sums - premium over ICE to buy, road tax costs, fuel saving costs etc. but as with any car of that age you have to look at the condition of the individual cars that are available on the market.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - madf

Yaris batteries should last 10-12 years.

As long as it has/has had an annual Hybrid Health Check/Hybrid Electric Service the batteries are warrantied for 15 years. www.toyota.co.uk/owners/warranty/toyota-warranty (scroll down).

You would have to look at the sums - premium over ICE to buy, road tax costs, fuel saving costs etc. but as with any car of that age you have to look at the condition of the individual cars that are available on the market.

The OP is talking 7-8 year old cars/

I thought there was only a 10 year warranty then

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Heidfirst

Afaik it has been a moveable feast having been extended a few times. If you read the t&cs there is nothing about it only applying to cars registered after a certain date (other than they must be under 15 years old) so I read it as applying to all Toyota hybrid cars that meet the other requirements.

www.toyota.co.uk/download/cms/gben/Toyota%20Hybrid...f

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - badbusdriver

For that kind of usage, at that age, I wouldn't bother with the hybrid. Not that I'd be overly concerned about reliability, more that any benefit would be minimal along with the simple fact you'd get a younger non hybrid for the same money. The non hybrid Yaris and Jazz are about the most reliable cars available at any price, so I certainly wouldn't have any worries with either.

The Jazz has a bigger boot, bigger cabin and has more flexibility thanks to the 'magic seats', so bear this in mind when choosing. The Yaris isn't cramped mind, just doesn't have as much space as the Jazz.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - mcb100
It’s the Yaris Hybrid for me. Checked once a year at a Toyota dealership and it’s a 15 year warranty on the battery. The rest of the Hybrid drive train is extremely reliable, as is the rest of the car. Around town it’ll spend up to 50% of the time with the engine shut down running on batteries.
www.toyota.co.uk/download/cms/gben/Toyota%20Hybrid...f

Edited by mcb100 on 29/11/2020 at 08:53

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - paul 1963

Madf, are you sure about it having nicads? there very old technology, maybe you meant nimh?

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - badbusdriver

It’s the Yaris Hybrid for me. Checked once a year at a Toyota dealership and it’s a 15 year warranty on the battery. The rest of the Hybrid drive train is extremely reliable, as is the rest of the car. Around town it’ll spend up to 50% of the time with the engine shut down running on batteries.
www.toyota.co.uk/download/cms/gben/Toyota%20Hybrid...f

All well and good, but that isn't factoring in the price difference between hybrid and non hybrid.

Looking on Autotrader, prices for a 2014 Yaris hybrid (up to 50k miles, no insurance write offs) starts off just under £8k. That same money will get you into a 2018 non hybrid car (and that is a 1.5, not the poverty spec 1.0 basic model).

Still want the hybrid?.

Edited by badbusdriver on 29/11/2020 at 10:26

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - mcb100
Yup, because the hybrid is such a better, more relaxing car to drive.
Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - madf

Madf, are you sure about it having nicads? there very old technology, maybe you meant nimh?

Sorry My bad. You are correct.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - SLO76
They’re more complex, more expensive to service and more costly to buy. I’d stick with a simple petrol engined supermini from the following list.

Yaris 1.33/1.5
Mazda 2 1.5
Ford Fiesta 1.25
Suzuki Swift 1.2
Honda Jazz

I wouldn’t exclude a hybrid but I just wouldn’t pay extra for one as the minimal economy gain would never pay for itself.
Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - mcb100
I’ll dispute the more expensive to service point. Toyota are saying a hybrid is no more expensive to maintain.
Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - pd

What is there more to service on a Toyota Hybrid than a non-hybrid?

The appeal, and the reason they hold their price, is not down to economy but that many buyers find them nicer to drive.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - mcintosh

What is there more to service on a Toyota Hybrid than a non-hybrid?

The appeal, and the reason they hold their price, is not down to economy but that many buyers find them nicer to drive.

The only difference between the hybrid and non-hybrid Toyota service is that the hybrid service includes a health check of the battery (at no extra cost), which extends the warranty on the battery for 12 months (up to 10 years).

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Heidfirst

The only difference between the hybrid and non-hybrid Toyota service is that the hybrid service includes a health check of the battery (at no extra cost), which extends the warranty on the battery for 12 months (up to 10 years).

15 years these days

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Avant

Brek1's friend needs to try both types and see if the hybrid is worth the extra outlay in terms of being better to drive.

If she wants an automatic she should beware of the semi-automatics that afflicted both Yaris and Jazz at one time. For £8k she should be able to get a more recent one which won't have that problem.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - AD251

Hi,

I own a 2010 Yaris 1.33, and have driven a Yaris hybrid (3rd generation 100bhp version).

The hybrid is superior - more go and better mpg. I got 69mpg on one mixed driving trip and 59mpg on a mainly motorway short trip. It depends what sort of driving you mainly do as to how much of an mpg advantage you will get. 1.33 does about 48mpg in mixed driving and about 55mpg on a long motorway trip (sometimes more).

Toyota hybrid drivetrains have legendary reliability. The 1.33 is also very reliable though.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Terry W

With a lot more components I find it difficult to believe that a hybrid will be more reliable than pure ICE - in fact quite the reverse.

I also suspect that unless the hybrid is capable of plug in with adequate battery range it is going to struggle to materially beat an ICE simply because of the additional weight of battery, control systems and motor.

Even accepting that a hybrid is more economical the savings in fuel are limited. Assuming hybrid at 60mpg and ICE at 50mpg - for (say) 6000 miles pa hybrid = 100 gals, ICE = 120 gals. Difference is around £100pa.

It will take many, many years to pay back the additional cost of a similar aged car.

The only saving graces are (a) it may be a better drive, (b) you can bask in the glow of the iprobably very small contribution you are making to a better environment.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - bathtub tom
I also suspect that unless the hybrid is capable of plug in with adequate battery range it is going to struggle to materially beat an ICE simply because of the additional weight of battery, control systems and motor.

I used to think that until I found out the hybrid ICE uses the Atkinson cycle. Couple with a CVT, means it runs at its most economical revs.

I still don't fancy one.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - skidpan

I also suspect that unless the hybrid is capable of plug in with adequate battery range it is going to struggle to materially beat an ICE simply because of the additional weight of battery, control systems and motor.

That was definitely the case a few years ago. My 2013 1,4 TSi Leon would average about 45mpg overall and do about 53mpg on a long run. At the same time a work colleague with an Auris Tourer Hybrid could only get mid 50's on a long run if he kept his speed down to that of the HGV's and used their slipstream. He hated the car as a car but loved the low business user tax he paid.

But things have definitely changed. During our recent car search 2 of the cars I drove were a Volvo XC40 2 litre petrol 190 PS auto and a Toyota Rav 4 hybrid which is CVT and 215 PS. Over a similar test route both performed about the same but even though the CVT was better than any box of that type I had drive previously I still preferred the conventional auto in the Volvo. What I did like about the Rav 4 was the mpg. We had both for about an hour and the Volvo reported 28mpg on the dash, the Rav 4 38mpg. Still not great but over 10,000 miles that a saving of nearly £500.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - AD251

There are many Toyota hybrids that are past the 500,000 mile point without issue. No conventional starter motor, no alternator, no turbo, no clutch, and if comparing to a diesel - no DPF, no dual mass flywheel. It is very very very rare that you read of an issue with one.

If you do 10-20 thousand miles a year and are keeping the car many years, these cars make perfect sense. And the thing everybody forgets is the retained value - they have much better depreciation rates, so yes they cost you a bit more, but you get more when you come to sell.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - carl233

The Toyota Hybrid system in the Prius shows records of 700k miles being passed by taxis without any major component failure. I think many people fail to understand the simplicity of the system. Watch some of the YouTube videos it is overall a proven and mechanically straightforward package.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Andrew-T

If you do 10-20 thousand miles a year and are keeping the car many years, these cars make perfect sense. And the thing everybody forgets is the retained value - they have much better depreciation rates, so yes they cost you a bit more, but you get more when you come to sell.

Bit of a double argument there - if you are keeping the car many years you probably aren't thinking about selling ? Both your points are valid, but they don't seem to go together.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - mcb100

Warranty claims on Toyota hybrids are lower than those for non-hybrid cars.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - edlithgow

Hybrid might be more exempt from future governmental stick waving.

That is driving electric scooter adoption here in Taiwan since they are exempt from parking charges. Scooters were until recently essentially unrestricted giving a high degree of personal mobility.

Now they aren't, so they don't.

Since just about everyone has one, that's a big negative lifestyle change.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - Falkirk Bairn

My Daughter-in-law bought a 18 mth / 2 year old Lexus CT - 1.8 hybrid.

7 years and sold with 83K IIRC - cost £13k sold for £7.8K earlier this year.

No problems, straight through MoTs - costs over the the 7 years were servicing, tyres, discs & pads. Recalled twice - Airbags, a potential wiring issue check, it was OK. She is always "in a hurry" on daily commute which was mostly motorway and average just under 50mpg - my son used it he got 53/54 with 57 on a l o n g run.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - pd

The Toyota hybrid drivetrain is remarkable.

A lot of Prius do service as taxis or ubers in places like California and rack up hundreds of thousands of miles then get exported out to South East Asia where they charge around the rutted roads of places such as Cambodia with basically zero servicing apart from a hammer and still keep going strong.

It's been around for ages now and whilst others may not been proven in the case of Toyota it has really shown its strength in real world use.

Used cars - Hybrid more reliable than IC engine? - pd

Just to add on residuals: an ex-taxi Prius at about 12 years old and a mega mileage can still fetch £3-4k in the trade. The equivalent petrol Focus would be worth about £800.