Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - RichT54

While I was driving through the Hindhead Tunnel on the A3 today, I noticed the C-HR's built-in Sat-Nav continued to update my position. The tunnel has a noticeable bend yet the Sat-Nav kept the marker on the correct road throughout and there was no sudden jump in position when I emerged at the other side.

As the GPS signal is very weak, I don't think the Sat-Nav can use it in the tunnel, so I assume it must have other information such as the car's speed and direction to fall back on. Is this common in Sat-Navs these days?

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - alan1302

While I was driving through the Hindhead Tunnel on the A3 today, I noticed the C-HR's built-in Sat-Nav continued to update my position. The tunnel has a noticeable bend yet the Sat-Nav kept the marker on the correct road throughout and there was no sudden jump in position when I emerged at the other side.

As the GPS signal is very weak, I don't think the Sat-Nav can use it in the tunnel, so I assume it must have other information such as the car's speed and direction to fall back on. Is this common in Sat-Navs these days?

Yes, most will do the same - the GPS signal will be non-existent in the tunnel.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - gordonbennet

Yes Garmins (i have no experience of others) do this.

It would be interesting to stop in the tunnel and see what happened when the car didn't re-aquire satellites when the sat nav assumed it would, presumably the sat nav assumes the speed entering the tunnel is maintained throughout?

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Metropolis.
I think factory navigation systems get a ‘speed signal’ from the car’s ECU, as was the case with the factory installed Becker unit on Discovery 2 and freelander 1.

www.discovery2.co.uk/navigation.html
Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - RichT54

I did wonder about that, but my speed today had to be pretty constant due to other traffic, so it wasn't obvious one way or the other.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - daveyjp
The satnav will get speed info from the vehicle and estimate the location.

I have noticed since a map upgrade to my old Garmin when I enter a tunnel the satnav screen now switches to night mode and changes back once the tunnel is exited.
Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Bilboman

Excuse the slight topic drift, but I've long wondered why some signals get through tunnels, others seem to do OK in vertical shafts (e.g. lifts) and others disappear altogether.
While driving and listening to FM radio (not DAB, as Spain doesn't seem to have it yet!) I lose the signal in road tunnels, yet a mobile phone call continues uninterrupted. Sat Nav continues though sometimes in some kind of reduced functionality (I use Google Maps on my phone, which is set to use phone signal or GPS or both).
However, I noticed when travelling in the lift that used to serve my neighbourhood (it ran vertically through a hill from the bottom of our road to the end of a pedestrian tunnel below) that the lift operator's FM radio stayed on all the time, yet my mobile phone signal (analogue until about 2000 then GSM) was completely lost.
Can any passing physicists explain?

Edited by Bilboman on 02/09/2019 at 22:47

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - dan86

Excuse the slight topic drift, but I've long wondered why some signals get through tunnels, others seem to do OK in vertical shafts (e.g. lifts) and others disappear altogether.
While driving and listening to FM radio (not DAB, as Spain doesn't seem to have it yet!) I lose the signal in road tunnels, yet a mobile phone call continues uninterrupted. Sat Nav continues though sometimes in some kind of reduced functionality (I use Google Maps on my phone, which is set to use phone signal or GPS or both).
However, I noticed when travelling in the lift that used to serve my neighbourhood (it ran vertically through a hill from the bottom of our road to the end of a pedestrian tunnel below) that the lift operator's FM radio stayed on all the time, yet my mobile phone signal (analogue until about 2000 then GSM) was completely lost.
Can any passing physicists explain?

Cant answer your question but when using the euro tunnel before i had mobile reception the entire time i was on the train.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Andrew-T

Not sure how a triangulating satnav system could be replicated inside a tunnel. But as we all know, people use their mobiles in Underground trains like anywhere else, so there are transceiving aerials down there for personal life-support systems to continue.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Smileyman

I have the same happen to me when I drive through the Dartford Tunnel, and also the tunnels on the M25, A20 and A299. Owing to the nature of the roads I've never tested to see how the satnav would cope if I stopped / reversed etc. If I recall correctly there is a junction on the Mersey river tunnel, would be interesting to test the reaction one day!

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Brit_in_Germany

Built in sat navs use the car's sensors to estimate position whereas simple gps devices should estimate using the speed you had when the gps signal was lost.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Bolt

Built in sat navs use the car's sensors to estimate position whereas simple gps devices should estimate using the speed you had when the gps signal was lost.

Some tunnels have repeaters in which receive the signal from an external aerial, they are wired and amplified depending on the tunnel length so your GPS gets its signal ok

I use the Hindhead tunnel as well without losing the signal I have a built in Garmin sat nav which works well, only time I did lose signal was through Dartford tunnel which I presume doesn't have repeaters

Edited by bolt on 03/09/2019 at 00:12

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - dan86

Built in sat navs use the car's sensors to estimate position whereas simple gps devices should estimate using the speed you had when the gps signal was lost.

Some tunnels have repeaters in which receive the signal from an external aerial, they are wired and amplified depending on the tunnel length so your GPS gets its signal ok

I use the Hindhead tunnel as well without losing the signal I have a built in Garmin sat nav which works well, only time I did lose signal was through Dartford tunnel which I presume doesn't have repeaters

I think a lot of the newer tunnels as you say have some sort of signal repeater system as my Google maps on my phone wires better in the newer tunnels than the older ones such as the black wall tunnel

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - jc2

The Dartford tunnels are fitted with repeater aerials for radio-don't know about GPS signals tho'.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Brit_in_Germany

I can't see any way in which a repeater can be used for GPS signals. Maybe they are using the cellular repeaters to obtain a velocity measurement.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - concrete

The Dartford tunnels are fitted with repeater aerials for radio-don't know about GPS signals tho'.

Not for digital radio they don't. My sat nav works inside the tunnel but not digital radio. Can't be bothered to switch to FM to see if that works, not worth it for a few minutes journey. Not sure if the sat nav receives a repeater or simply works out the speed while in the tunnel. Clever though. Cheers Concrete

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - Andrew-T

Built in sat navs use the car's sensors to estimate position whereas simple gps devices should estimate using the speed you had when the gps signal was lost.

Some tunnels have repeaters in which receive the signal from an external aerial, they are wired and amplified depending on the tunnel length so your GPS gets its signal ok

It's clear how this works with phone channels, but not how it can work with multichannel stereo (which GPS effectively is). If there are several sources of repeat signals the answers will be strange, to say the least.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - mcb100
I remember doing some product training for Toyota probably 10 years ago now, and Toyota Touch (their multimedia system) has a feed relaying the car’s speed to the navigation unit. Particularly useful when one of the Mersey tunnels has a fork in the road, or where a tunnel terminates in a complex junction and a driver doesn’t have to wait for a satnav to regain a GPS signal before it knows where it is.
Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - RT

Most sat navs have a speed input from the car so don't need continuous signal - they also make assumptions if you have a route set up, they assume you stick to the route until the GPS position shows otherwise - this is visible if you ignore instructions to turn off a motorway or use a new road that's not on the mapping.

Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - mcb100
I’m no engineer, but if a satnav needs to receive an ultra accurate time signal from multiple satellites, how would any form of repeater or amplifier work? All the data would be coming from one source.
So far as a stand alone unit (ie Google Maps), I’d assume it would work on a presumption of speed through a tunnel, maybe also using gyroscopes contained within smart phones?
Any - Sat-Nav in tunnels - alan1302
I’m no engineer, but if a satnav needs to receive an ultra accurate time signal from multiple satellites, how would any form of repeater or amplifier work? All the data would be coming from one source. So far as a stand alone unit (ie Google Maps), I’d assume it would work on a presumption of speed through a tunnel, maybe also using gyroscopes contained within smart phones?

That is how it works