Dubious Driving - Deryck Tintagel
The standard of driving in my neck of the woods is dubious to say the least - the road system around Redditch is bad enough without the likes of youth in Saxo to compound things.

Generally, I will let matters go if I am cut up, etc, but every now and then I feel that the driver should be reported. My mate is a copper and he reckons that I should report dangerous driving but I doubt if anything will be done.

Has anybody tried this?
Dubious Driving - Morris Ox
Thought about it, but then I got to work and calmed down
Dubious Driving - Steve S
Well done Ox, you know it makes sense. Why let someone who's already annoyed you compound the problem by stressing you out?

Anyone who drives persistently like that will get what's coming eventually! You just have to hope no-one else suffers as a result.
Dubious Driving - Deryck Tintagel
I agree that it's best to forget all about it - and I usually do. The problem is that we all hope that nobody is injured in the process and let somebody else deal with it. Perhaps a case of "I'm OK ..." - not necessarily wrong nor right but just human nature?

The incident this morning amused me after the initial annoyance as I passed the offending driver at the next roundabout. He was sitting in the near-side lane in a queue of traffic waiting to turn left, I would guess. So why the hurry to cut-up myself and other road users?
Dubious Driving - Morris Ox
People do strange things when they're strapped into their tin box. I hate people parking outside my house when I don't know them, but they've every right to do so...just being male and territorial I guess and it's the same on the road.
Dubious Driving - Obsolete
Yes. I did twice.

On the first occasion the copper on the desk took the p*** out of me. His more user friendly colleague was polite but indicated that he would not have bothered. I believe that they are obliged to send a copper round to the other persons house to take a statement but the CPS must then decide on what to do.

Second occasion I reported (by phone to local nick) someone driving on the wrong side of a dual carriageway and heard that they had crashed some time after my sighting of them. The copper was polite and seemed to appreciate the call.

Basically I feel that something very dangerous should be reported but otherwise plod-u-like don't really want to know.

I've also reported a car being stolen by joy riders (~10 years old, broad daylight, Hayes High Street, lots of passers by ignoring the obvious theft in progress) and they didn't really want to know. I bit odd but there you go.

Maybe they have lots of nuisance calls?
Dubious Driving - Flat in Fifth
I have to say in general I am a supporter of our wonderful plod, however there are times when one just wants to go off pop!

Once reported a car with several bald tyres, no tread pattern at all.

One rear had worn through to the casing and had been so for some time in my judgement.

In the end was made to feel it was all my fault. Distinctly unamused. Never bothered since.

apols to dvd, fullchat clarky, mlc etc.
Dubious Driving - Obsolete
BTW My posting wasn't intended to be a plod bash. Give us UK police rather than some other alternatives any day.
Dubious Driving - matt35 {P}

trying to paste website


It worked - out to do a lap of honour!

This site gives some info on the procedure - if you are in the area and under 26 we are waiving the £35 Group fee and supplying the books free so cost is £50 to IAM HQ only.


PS - I just called BT to report nuisance calls - she said 'You Again?'
Dubious Driving - matt35 {P}
Deryck et al,

Think about joining the IAM or RoSPA - this does not remove these plonkers from the roads, but gives you a much more relaxed reaction to thier stupidity..it also gives you the chance to shaft them as your observation is at a much higher level than thiers - although this is Not what Advanced driving is about!



PS - I suspect from some of his comments that Lief may be into Advanced driving?
Dubious Driving - Deryck Tintagel
Yes, I have the forms for the IAM but haven't got around to sending them off - this all started when I was tailgated by woman in a Rover who was nearly taken out by an Audi that was passing both of us. Needless to say she didn't see him coming until the last minute and had take evasive action.

Has anybody experience of the IAM? or is this another thread?
Dubious Driving - slefLX
I haven't got any experience of IAM yet but I'm going on my first observed drive on 6th April, I'm actually quite looking forward to it.
Dubious Driving - Obsolete
Matt35: Yes I recently took some IAM lessons and very useful they were too. My driving before the lessons was okay - a result of reading Ripley each Saturday - but my gear use was, ahem, ermm, to be honest, execrable. Various other things needed improvement too. I find I can negotiate roundabouts and motorway slip roads more safely as I change gears less, and use a more appropriate one too. I hope to pick up Ripley's book soon as I would like to learn a bit more.

A few years ago I used to have occasional 'incidents' due to the 'poor driving of other people'. The advanced driving stuff means that now I rarely let myself get into a position where someone can cause me problems if they - of I - make a mistake. Also driving is much more fun as it is more relaxing.

Sadly it is not always possible to avoid an idiot. This morning I saw an idiot in a small white Escort van undertake someone while they were turning into a side road. I was gob smacked at the level of risk taken. The other driver stopped dead. I think she was shocked or frightened. I saw the idiot just after the dangerous manoeuvre. He was grinning with pleasure like a Cheshire cat. A young male. Apologies to safe young male drivers, but a small but significant minority are dangerous.
Dubious Driving - Yoby
Yes, I had a similar incident joining the M3 at J4 this evening. G Reg 205 with fat exhaust tried to undertake as I went round roundabout, he gave up at the last minute and passed on the 2 lane section. Needless to say, the hat-on -backwards brigade. Normally try not to get irritated, but find that occasionally the blood pressure does go up a bit! (end of winge!)

On the IAM front, I went out on some observation drives a few years back. The chap who ran these then took me out in his car to show 'how it was done' and drove quite dangerously in my opinion - almost trying to impress. I was disappointed and after a similar 2nd observation drive cancelled the sessions. Meant to get round to doing the RoSPA, but never managed to make time. I have heard from others who have had bad experiences when observation drivers try to show 'how its done'.

I am not knocking the IAM - my Grandfather and Dad are in it, but I think that I was just unlucky, and an opportunity missed.

Dubious Driving - TrevP
Yoby -
"On the IAM front, I went out on some observation drives a few years back. The chap who ran these then took me out in his car to show 'how it was done' and drove quite dangerously in my opinion - almost trying to impress"

Yes, I understand.

But, if you had voiced this to the "demonstrator", I would have hoped he would have explained.

Perhaps another "demo" for you armed with the following?

When I do demonstrations, I am aware that from some perspectives, my progress in open country looks "fast".
This is because I look MUCH further ahead, AND ensure I am in the right gear, so am able to drive faster without braking.

(the other side of the coin is that I often wish to drive down a busy high street slower than the majority of other drivers, to avoid braking and give more time for pedestrians to cross - after all it is not unreasonable for them to do so)
Dubious Driving - matt35 {P}
Leif,{A few years ago I used to have occasional 'incidents' due to the 'poor driving of other people'. The advanced driving stuff means that now I rarely let myself get into a position where someone can cause me problems if they - of I - make a mistake. Also driving is much more fun as it is more relaxing.}

This is an often repeated comment from our Associates and is very much what it is all about.

Come back and have a go at the test and later have a look at RoSPA!


Dubious Driving - Obsolete

I have had similar experiences to Yoby. The only time I have felt uncomfortable as a car passenger in the last 10 years was during a demo drive by an IAM observer. He was going too fast along a country lane and I felt very ill at ease. You might well say he was using 'advanced techniques' but doesn't passenger comfort come into it? And anyway I still think he was going too fast, as there were fields either side, and for example, a horse and rider could have suddenly emerged at the end of a footpath, and then reared up in fright at a high speed car. And hedges and things disguise small/young animals as I know from experience. Don't get me wrong though, as many aspects of his driving were first rate. I expect good aspects passed me by due to ignorance.

Are observers trained to teach? I ask as mine really got up my nose on 'lesson' 6. Basically I drove worse than I have ever done before - even nearly had a head on due to my stupidity - as a result of my listening to his continuous back seat driving. I ended the lesson feeling very angry and extremely embarrassed and ashamed of having driven in what I felt was a dangerous manner. During the lesson he boasted to me that he had brought several people close to tears. Actually one person I know was crying at the end of a 'lesson' from him. They told me they came close to stopping the car and kicking him out. I thought about complaining to the IAM but didn't have the heart to as he had put in his own spare time to teach me and to be honest I had on previous lessons learnt some valuable techniques. Complaining just didn't seem right.

Anyway, I still recommend taking some IAM lessons as you need an observer to check what you do. But I learnt about keeping calm, keeping a safe distance and so on from reading stuff by people like Ripley. And it has paid off many many times.
Dubious Driving - Nortones2
Leif: very similar experience with these well-intentioned amateurs of IAM, when I took a trial lesson. Wet road, undulating and slightly shiny surface: my mbike experience told me that grip might be low, so I felt very ill at ease. I've always taken road surface into account since the days of single-track, and slowed down if necessary! The driver seemd to think "National speed limit" was a target. Another point you raised, which I agree with fully, was the toll on animals/birds by driving at high speed along lanes with hedgerows. An insensitive attitude overall, so didn't go back to that group. Have since had training (during work time) through a professional outfit, covering the same principles, but in a sane and sensible manner.
Dubious Driving - matt35 {P}

We need to do one demo drive with each new associate - not to 'show them how it is done' but to demonstrate and show them the effects of putting the SYSTEM into practise - I would hate to think anyone was ever scared on my demos as it would show I was not doing it right.

It is quite common, after three or four sessions, that the associate seems to go backwards - happened to me week before last - but he was back on form this week.

Training in our Group? I had to do ten Saturday mornings with the Chief Observer then be tested by a Class 1 Police driver to become an Observer.

To become a Senior Observer, I had to do a written test (not easy) and do a further very tough drive with another Class 1 Policeman who is known not to take prisoners.

We also have periodic check drives either with a Chief Observer or with another Senior - no one does anyone any favours.

I have read the Ripley book - a few interesting tips and comments but not a lot that you wont get in Roadcraft or Pass your Advanced Driving Test.

Just a comment - I have learned more about driving since becoming an Observer than I ever expected to - and we are always looking for new Observers!!!


Dubious Driving - Deryck Tintagel
Having read all the comments about the IAM I think that I shall book an initial drive with their instructor and get on a course of lessons.

I think that my driving isn't bad but could do with some improvement in certain areas - my usual thought to myself is "I should have been out ..." when I get stuck behind something and have had the opportunity to move lost due to misinterpreting what I am seeing behind.
Dubious Driving - Obsolete
Matt35: My question was really are IAM observers trained to teach and not are they trained to drive. Before the IAM I contacted various groups such as BSM but they were not interested. I might try again to get paid lessons.
Dubious Driving - matt35 {P}

IAM Observer training comes after we have passed the IAM test. It is meant to teach us how to Observe - we don't teach - we try to correct bad habits and get you to drive to the System.
My training was done with two of us trainees role playing as Observer and Associate and the Chief in the back seat checking that we were being instructive.
We also had to make deliberate mistakes to check if the partner noticed the errors and commented either during the drive or at the debrief on having noted the error and how to avoid it in future by being systematic.
I suggest that, if you get the right Observer, for a maximum of £85-00, you will get better (and unlimited) driving experience -with people who are doing this every week - as opposed to ADIs who probably have few requests for advanced tuition.
If you want to start at the top -I learned about the HPC course from TrevorP - my day in December was memorable - cost £564 including a visit to Millbrook with John Lyon and worth every penny.


Dubious Driving - Morris Ox
Bit puzzled by all the feedback about observers driving too fast. The only time I have seen what I thought was swift driving from an IAM guy was from their chief - who was a traffic sergeant and clearly knew what he was doing. He threw in a few class 1 tricks just to show where it could all take you (straightlining a series of bends when the view/road was clear, and going well on to the outside of a bend to get the best view round etc) but there was never any point where I felt unsafe - he was just incredibly smooth.

One of the toughest lessons I learned before I took the test was driving 'down' to 30mph when everyone else around clearly didn't want to and generally not being intimidated into doing things you shouldn't be doing. Plus the old classic 'what was the sign you've just passed?'. Er...what sign?

Made me drive slower but progress better, not bother with overtakes just for the sake of it, make good progress when I could. They're just as good at making you drive up to the limit when it's safe to do so as they are at making you drive below it when 30 is clearly too much in a 30 limit.

Good, common sense stuff and I hope I'll summon up the courage to do the RoSPA test one day.
Dubious Driving - Nortones2
MO: just for clarification. I have been a passenger with police drivers (not in the police, nor a perp., but working with them) at very high speed. No problem: all under control even at high g forces. Complete confidence. Not so with chummy in the Vauxhall! 60 is too fast on some roads, in second division cars.
Dubious Driving - Flat in Fifth
All this talk reminds me of a demo drive years ago after a "classroom" discussion session which included escape routes.

Location: Undivided B road, out in the sticks, no entrances/buildings, GLF limit, where after a long straight the road went ~45 right.

Sergeant instructor in full flow, zapping down this road at warp factor (a very big number) commentary going something like
"... and I'm using acceleration sense to adjust my speed for the right hand bend.... (snip).... still using acceleration sense...."

Afterwards the three others of us in the car confessed we were all thinking "for chrissakes begger acceleration sense use some blooming common sense and brake!" (or words to that effect)

Just as we were all bracing ourselves for the inevitable, he bailed out down an unsignposted C class which none of us pupils had seen and went very slightly left at the apex, ideal escape route and one he'd planned right from the outset. The GIT, the utter utter GIT!

However a salutory lesson in quite a number of areas, but I still worry that behaviour like that doesn't necessarily do anyone any favours.

Value my car