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I saw a similar driver on a local single carriageway a couple of weeks back, He overtook me and a few cars behind me and cut in on me as oncoming traffic was too close for comfort. He was then about 6 feet behind the curtainsider infront and did a blind leap out to overtake, of course by this time I was well back not wishing to be a contributor to his injuries.
Then the other night I see this road on the local news as being a 'dangerous road' because of several deaths in the past year. No such thing as a dangerous road, just dangerous drivers.
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... He was then about 6 feet behind the curtainsider infront and did a blind leap out to overtake....
Yes, people seem not to be aware that the best overtakes can start quite some distance behind, where the visibility is better.
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I agree Marlot. A lesson I learned with my first car, a Renault 4 with a 3 speed gearbox and about 35 hp and little torque. You had to plan ahead, take a run (or jog!) at it and ensure you had enough speed to complete the manoeuvre safely. If you didn't then you simply pulled out before you were committed to the actual passing move.
Quite satisfying in its own way but probably not in modern traffic where the necessary gaps are not there to be exploited and where following faster traffic is likely to compromise your ability to create the necessary runup space by passing you and then taking up that space.
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A lot of drivers proceed as if they ARE driving a Renault 4 -- I often cringe inside when I see people commit to an overtake, and then only go at 4mph faster than the vehicle they are passing, while the oncoming traffic looms ever larger ...
Not to mention the occasional driver who sees himself as a traffic enforcement officer, and actually ACCELERATES when you try to pass.
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Not to mention the occasional driver who sees himself as a traffic enforcement officer, and actually ACCELERATES when you try to pass.
There's now too much of that ill-mannered disgraceful and dangerous behaviour. If a fatality was ever involved they should be prosecuted for manslaughter at the very least. If you are in a queue and have decided to stay put rather than 'earhole' your way up it and past the old dodderer 'nice quiet road today, Mavis - they all seem to be coming the other way', it is courteous to leave a decent space for ear'olers to occupy should they wish to do so rather than flashing and hooting them for cutting in and causing a delay of 0.5 of a second.
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Not to mention the occasional driver who sees himself as a traffic enforcement officer, and actually ACCELERATES when you try to pass.
There's now too much of that ill-mannered disgraceful and dangerous behaviour. If a fatality was ever involved they should be prosecuted for manslaughter at the very least. If you are in a queue and have decided to stay put rather than 'earhole' your way up it and past the old dodderer 'nice quiet road today, Mavis - they all seem to be coming the other way', it is courteous to leave a decent space for ear'olers to occupy should they wish to do so rather than flashing and hooting them for cutting in and causing a delay of 0.5 of a second.
Try driving a caravan at it's 60mph motorway limit when a car driver is doing 55 in lane - they don't like being overtaken by a caravan - either speeding to prevent me pulling back over - or letting me overtake, then speed up to overtake me and then slow down to 55.
Even if I'm cruising at the legal limit solo, I don't take umbrage at those who wish to travel faster as long as it's done in a safe and considerate way.
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Try driving a caravan at it's 60mph motorway limit when a car driver is doing 55 in lane 1....
I've had them doing 55 (or less) in lane 2 (of a three lane motorway).
I'm not legally allowed into lane 3, but the middle lane hogger absolutely refuses to move over...
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Try driving a caravan at it's 60mph motorway limit when a car driver is doing 55 in lane 1....
I've had them doing 55 (or less) in lane 2 (of a three lane motorway).
I'm not legally allowed into lane 3, but the middle lane hogger absolutely refuses to move over...
Trailers are also banned from the outside lane of motorways with 3 or more lanes so I understand some of HGV drivers' frustrations with drivers like that.
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Indeed - unfortunately I think the 'red mist' often determines the point at which people begin to overtake!
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The main problem is not with drivers who want to overtake, it's with those who are content to remain behind the slowest vehicle but aren't prepared to pass or leave enough room to allow drivers of overtaking vehicles to safely pull in in front. Modern cars have brakes that can enable them to stop without leaving a safe disance for overtaking cars to pass one at a time. In contrast to previous posters I find as a driver of well over 50 years a powerful car is very useful for negating this nuisance as well as the self appointed police who speed up when being overtaken. In years gone by the driver of a slow vehicle would wave a following car past when it was safe to do so. Now drivers don't seem to understand hand signals that indicate that it's safe to pass let alone three or four flashes of the nearside indicator on a straight clear stretch of road. the blame for this lies squarely with the current crop of driving instructors. I only ever drive at a speed at which I am happy whether it's in my '31 Austin Seven Chummy or my '04 Jaguar XJ8, if other drivers want to overtake I'm happy to move over wave them past and let them carry on.
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I find motorcyclists are particularly grateful for the couple of LH indicator flashes. It signifies you're aware of their presence and raising of the little finger of their left hand as they pass confirms this.
Let's face it, you may as well make it easy for them to pass as they're unlikely to ever hold you up. This doesn't apply to annoying moped riders who seem to think 'carving up' means filtering, but they then can't do more than 30MPH when the limit's higher.
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I'm afraid i rarely indicate a left flash for safe overtakes any more...unless by their road behaviour i can tell that the vehicle behind is driven by someone switched on, in which case..
Blame the blame culture, we are instructed on our regular assessments by the company trainer that if we offer any help or encouragement to another road user we can be held at least partly to blame if things go wrong, its just how it is now, i don't like it any more than anyone else but the age of road chivalry if one dare use the word are over, sad indeed.
What i do still do is at night if someone is overtaking if no one is coming the other way i keep the headlights on main and light the road up till they are actually past, then dip, nothing worse than trying to overtake someone who hasn't a clue how to find or use main beams, how they manage to get about on dip alone beats me.
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What I hate are halfwits who have full beams or very badly adjusted dip beams in dry, sunny weather, quite often with foglamps on as well. 4 x 4s are the worst as their lamps are higher up and better placed to be a distraction in ones mirrors if following you.
Can any motorcyclist explain why they need to have full beam xenons on when they are perfectly visible with dipped ones? Or do they just like dazzling car drivers?
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What I hate are halfwits who have full beams ...
Can any motorcyclist explain why they need to have full beam xenons on when they are perfectly visible with dipped ones? Or do they just like dazzling car drivers?
Having been a biker, I suspect that for many, the answer is because a halfwit car driver pulled out on them when the biker only used dipped beam.
When cars were unlit, bikers stood out by using their dipped headlight. Now that every car is lit up at the front, I can understand bikers feeling that they have lost their ability to stand out.
Edited by Marlot on 11/04/2016 at 06:37
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Agreed Marlot, on the road we're bombarded by lights 24/7 now and those who should stand out from the throng don't any more, the light wars have done nothing for road safety for those with less than 3 million glittering blinding watts the rest pale into the relative gloom.
It's utterly ludicrous, in my job we have some of the brightest painted tankers on the road yet they are all fited with DRL's, if you can't see one of ours without silly fairy lights showing you shouldn't be out without a white stick, luckily those on my present steed are controllable via the menu so are off.
Amusingly now lights are automated on so many cars, DRL's are all that show in thick daytime fog...who would have imagined that dumbing down would result in dumb drivers.
Edited by gordonbennet on 11/04/2016 at 08:47
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Amusingly now lights are automated on so many cars, DRL's are all that show in thick daytime fog...who would have imagined that dumbing down would result in dumb drivers.
I recently pointed out to a driver that he didn't have his lights on. He replied that he did as he could see them on at the front - DRLs. No rear lights!
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I agree totally with craigpd130, people are so scared to floor the pedal when overtaking. When I was taught (1966) I was told to accelerate as fast as I could to complete the manouvre as quickly as possible, then return to normal speed. I think that so many ordinary motorist have suffered at the behest of 'safety cameras' that they are afraid to exceed the speed limit for a few metres, even when overtaking. An instructor in my local often mentions that most drivers these days are not confident about the overtaking procedure and therefore don't overtake at all. This can be frustrating for more capable drivers behind.
I too now have the same problem as Avant. Living in a rural setting is great, very little traffic, but what there is you have to put up with. Lanes and side roads are quite narrow and passing places are useful but rare.
Having said all that the driver that gordonbennet describes seems like a real bonedome. Not content with getting himself killed he wants to take others with him. Lets hope he never gets his wish.
Cheers Concrete
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I agree totally with craigpd130, people are so scared to floor the pedal when overtaking.
I think they're also afraid to use the full rev range. I've, erm, discovered my current cars rev limiter cuts in at around an indicated 80 MPH in third. A previous car would happily rev to over 7K RPM (carb & dizzy, no limiter).
A few drivers have admitted they think they may blow the engine if they go more than halfway up the rev range.
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Using a car's full rev range also has the benefits of helping to clear away gunk and other deposits in the engine that can reduce performance, fuel efficiency and possibly reliability over the longer term - the so-called 'Italian tune-up' is a time-honoured way of getting rid of such stuff, as well as having a bit of fun (safely of course)!
Most car manuals actually now say that following the initial run-in period of a new car, when you shouldn't go above a certain rev limit (well below the red line, normally about 3500 - 4000 revs, at least for a petrol engined car), they recommend you 'use the full rev range' for a while so that the car will fully bed in, being able to use the full revs and get the best torque curve, rather than artificially flatten it out because of constant low revs use.
I give my car an 'Italian tune-up' about once every month or two on a nice (normally empty) uphill dual carriageway where I can use the full rev range across all forward gears (except first perhaps) in a safe way. It seems to do the job - my car's engine is as sweet (relatively speaking - it is only a 1.6 normally-aspirated petrol engine with 105bhp!) as it was in year 1 from new. The occasional 'rag it' overtake also serves that purpose, though is more tricky as I live in a more rural area with many dangerous single carriageway roads.
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Can any motorcyclist explain why they need to have full beam xenons on when they are perfectly visible with dipped ones? Or do they just like dazzling car drivers?
Two things at play there - most bike headlights are positioned considerably higher than the headlights in most cars (apart from huge 4x4s and crew-cab trucks). This may make it appear that the lights are on full beam, but they're probably not. Also, the nature of motorbike suspension means the lights may appear to move up & down much more than a car's.
On bikes sold in the UK in the past 10 years, dipped beams are mandatory, there is no 'headlights off' switch at all.
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The unfortunate thing is,
that it is very difficult to judge the distance-away, and the speed-of-approach (and sometimes even the position laterally across the road) of a motorbike with its headlight permanently set to main beam.
In my opinion, the result is reduced safety, not increased.
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Yes, there's nothing worse than being stuck behind someone who's only on dipped lights when they should be using their full beam. Maybe if they put their full beam on they'll be able to see where they're going and go faster.
Something I never see these days are cyclists who wave vehicles past to let them know it is safe to overtake. Am I the only cyclist left who still does this? I always get a thank you wave from drivers when I do this, so it is appreicated. It's much safer to have a faster larger vehicle in front of you where you can see them, than behind you. Many drivers seem very nervous to overtake anything, so the more you can help them the better.
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Something I never see these days are cyclists who wave vehicles past to let them know it is safe to overtake. Am I the only cyclist left who still does this? I always get a thank you wave from drivers when I do this, so it is appreicated. It's much safer to have a faster larger vehicle in front of you where you can see them, than behind you. Many drivers seem very nervous to overtake anything, so the more you can help them the better.
No this cyclist does it too. Part of the aim is to confirm I'm prepared for them coming past and OK to hug the kerb while they do. Once they're past it's back to primary/secondary to keep out the gutter clutter zone.
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I agree that many drivers either don't have the ability and awareness of other vehicles around them (and issues like holding them up by crawling in formation behind a slow-moving vehicle, making overtaking both [or more if others behind do the same, which is quite often] much more difficult, if not impossible or downright dangerous) or, frankly, don't care about their actions in that regard.
One of my chief complaints about bead driving these days is how little people are aware of of other road users, what's going further than 50m ahead, and especially behind - its like using mirrors is an 'optional extra' for many (either that or they can't multi-task at all [you have to wonder how some of these people ever passed their driving tests!]), as evidenced by the increasing number of idiots pulling out into occupied lanes on dual carriageways/motorways and causing accidents when turning from side roads into/across main roads.
I try as much as possible to be aware of what's going on around my car, so I can pre-empt (as far as possible) any action taken/that may be taken by other road users to help keep things moving and as safely as possible - essentially the act of defensive driving as well as awareness.
Sometimes I've been the car behind the slowish-moving lorry (for example), especially in my previous car (a slow 1 litre Micra), but was always careful to leave enough room (as you say) between my car and the slow vehicle in front in case someone else tried to overtake and couldn't make it all the way past, or just as important, to give my car sufficient room to see round the vehicle in front and give me room to pick up speed should I have the oppotunity to overtake.
Its all rather common sense (not really any special skills on my part), which seems to be lost on a large minority of drivers, and as you say, should've been taught by their driving instructors. I'm glad I was always paying attention as a youngster when my Dad (a good driver) was driving as well as my instructor when I learned to drive later on at 17.
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focussed wrote: >>I actually did get reported once and it went back to the driving test centre chief examiner-who happened to be an ex-Hendon police driving and motorcycle instructor, he had a good laugh about it!<<
The motorcycle instructor will have had plenty of practice in teaching overtakes. It's only on the bikes that you get taught how to overtake and the IAM or RoSPA bike courses are worth doing just for their roadcraft skills. The IAM rarely get the chance to teach car drivers how to overtake as they just won't get the right opportunities.
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Another factor may be that many modern cars feel more powerful in normal use but don't actually have that much extra in reserve, so give the driver overconfidence in the car's performance. Small capacity diesels, often driven by the impatient sales rep are usually the worst for this. They initially seem quite reasonable, until you realise that revving anything over 2500rpm just makes more noise and smoke, rather than power! The only exception I've come across is the 1.5 Renault engine which feels a bit slow in normal use, but (for a diesel) responds well to being revved a bit.
The opposite of this are the Honda VTEC petrol engines, which feel pretty gutless in normal use, but even the most lowly versions in the Jazz respond well when required. Unfortunately the typical owner of a Jazz doesn't make use of it though in the unlikely event of overtaking anything, as he would consider revving above 2000rpm as 'thrashing' the engine.
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Meh!
Stoopid is as stoopid does
an
Per the words 'o the "wile handy 'n canny" grizzled & almost toothless Axeman on yer TV Show.
Who certainly warney stupid, despite (probably) generations o inbreeding btw.
"Ye cannt fix stupid"
'n, per the Poission/Bell Curve distriubtion, most of the bulk of the population are stupid (in respect of the cognative facilities required to drive in the modern world)
regards
Marcus
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The art of overtaking was lost when cars became universally powerful. When Standard 8s and Bullnosed Morrises were the norm roads were not so crowded and overtaking was easy. Now, even the two and three cylinder cars can hold their own with the biggest. When the roads are congested overtaking isn't possible and cars are generally doing the speed limit. You need a country A road and not much traffic to overtake, and then you are doing more than the speed limit afterwards. Anyhow, is overtaking taught at driving schools ?
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I was once driving a 1.4 litre Golf rental car in Germany with three passengers and had to make it to the airport in time for a flight. I went to overtake a similar car doing abour 50 mph driven by a sun god in singlet and muscles with a beautiful young woman holding a new baby in the front passenger seat. I spent an extrended period next to that beautiful young woman and was able to see the baby too because the sun god matched everything I did, accelerating to 75 and slowing to 20; he just would not let me pass or tuck in behind him. As it was a two lane motorway I and my passengers were quite nervous. Then we were almost past an exit junction and I saw the BYW snap at the SG and he realised that they were passing their junction and turned off over the rumble strips.
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I live in a rural area and as such, not much need for overtaking except for slow farm machinery. I would argue that overtaking such vehicles safely on winding single carriageway roads is a lot different to overtaking at speed on a straight road. The queue of traffic behind will expect you to overtake but you need to judge everything right as you may well be overtaking from 10mph or less and you need to match any opportunity with the abilities of you car.
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In some ways, overtaking 'old style' farm vehicles was far easier than modern ones - they were smaller and far slower, which meant they often pulled in on lay-bys or you easily had time to overtake without needing to redline it.
Nowadays, many farmers (including round where I live, in NW Herts/Cambridgeshire border) have huge JCBs which can easily do 40 or 50mph, making overtaking more difficult - far less think of pulling over to let the inevitable long line of traffic past, which means if a loaded-up van or bus/coach/lorry gets behind them everyone else will get stuck also all the way until one/both turn off.
It hasn't helped where daft left-wing councils drop speed limits (think it'll slow down the real speeders who do 80 in a 60 zone, etc), so you're left deciding whether to stick behind a farm vehicle doing 40 in a 50 zone or temporarily break the speed limit by 10mph+ to pass quickly and safely. People who really (danagerously) speed still do so; everyone else just takes longer to get from A to B or take more risks when overtaking. Nice.
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Spain has got this one right. You are allowed to exceed the limit to effect an overtake.
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Spain has got this one right. You are allowed to exceed the limit to effect an overtake.
Simples. QED.
Concrete
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Highway code Rule 163.
Hmmm- as usual in the UK -open to interpretation-
- move quickly past the vehicle you are overtaking, once you have started to overtake. Allow plenty of room. Move back to the left as soon as you can but do not cut in
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