VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

Hi,

I'm trying to help a family friend who bought a VW Touran Automatic 12 plate.

He bought the car in August'15 and in November'15, just after 3 months, the Auto gearbox went, it has a full VW service history and next service is not due till next month. I believe it has only done 17,000 miles.

The car was bought from a fairly large used car dealer.

They are saying for us to contact VW to try and get them to arrange a repair or give a goodwill gesture towards repair and the used car dealer will also contribute to this repair - but we will have to also contribute to this repair!?

We have contacted VW and they then put us in touch with the local VW dealer who turned round and said nothing they can do as it's outside warranty.

I have tried the SGA with the used car dealer and they said under the SGA they are entitled to get it repaired but do not have to meet the full costs of repair as it will make the car 'better' than it was before!? I think the term he used was 'betterment'

The car is also bought on finance, I understand this might be an option to pursue.

He is now without a car for over 2 months. Is he entitled to ask for a courtesy car?

Ideally, he would like to just return the car and get his money back. Can he stop paying the monthly finance? - for the finance company to take the car and call it quits or will they still come after him?

Currently, the used car dealer has advised us to go back to main VW and try and persuade them to offer a repair under goodwill?

Any advice much appreciated,

Thank you.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

Hi,

apologies (I can't seem to edit the above post), correction on the mileage, the mileage is 72,000. It was bought at 70,000 and he has done only 2,000 miles.

He would very much like to return the car as he has lost confidence in the car and thinks any repair will only cause problems further down the line.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - RobJP

He does not have the legal right to reject the car.

It is up to the garage that sold him the car to fix the fault. Any fault that happens within 6 months of purchase is assumed, in law, to have been 'present or developing' at the time of sale. It is up to the garage to cover that cost - IN FULL.

I suggest that he write to the garage, informing them of this, and further informing them that unless they can suggest a satisfactory solution within 14 days, he will get the work carried out, and then sue them in Small Claims Court for the full costs.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

Hi,

Thanks for the reply, thanks for clearing up the garage is fully responsible for meeting all the costs of repair.

Is there no way of getting a refund? if he simply stops the paying the finance, will the finance company just simply take the car off him?

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

wow, just got off the phone with VW main customer services, they are saying even if the car is under 3yrs old and thus covered by warranty - you, the customer, still have to pay a diagnoses fee - which is £500!!!!

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - skidpan

A few simple facts.

You have no contract with VW and they have no responsibilty to fix the car. Even if the car was under 3 years old the warranty would have expired since the VW warranty is 3 years/60,000 miles.

Your contract is with the garage you purchased the car from and since your friend had only had the car 3 months when it broke they are required under UK law to fix it.

You must give the seller the opportunity to fix the car, taking it to a 3rd party first will jepardise your case.

If the seller refuses to repair it inform them in a letter delivered by registered post that you will persue all costs incurred getting the car repaired from them in the courts.

You do not have an automatic right to a courtesy car, the word "courtesy" gives you a clue about that. However, any decent garage should help you when repairs are likely to be protracted as in your case.

If your friend has had the car less than 6 months he may have a legal right to reject the car for a full refund. The fact that the garage have had the car 2 months should help his case. They need to act fast as the 6 month limit is rapidly approaching and the rejection needs to be handled correctly. Suggest your friend joins Which who have a proforma that ensures its done correctly.

Your friend must continue to pay the finance. If they don't the Finance company will simply reposses the car and they will be out of pocket with a black mark against their name. Since the car is on finance they have extra help available. Under UK law the finance company are also liable for the product thus I suggset they are contaced and informed about the situation. Under UK law they must assist.

With regards to

wow, just got off the phone with VW main customer services, they are saying even if the car is under 3yrs old and thus covered by warranty - you, the customer, still have to pay a diagnoses fee - which is £500!!!!

that is mostly nonsense. If a car breaks under manufacturers warranty an authorised dealer will repair it FOC with no costs. However, in the event of a failure of a "wearing component" (eg a clutch) there may be a charge pending investigation of the failure, if its a manufacturing defect you get the money back, if its wear and tear you don't. A gearbox is not a wearing component so no need to ascertain why it failed. They should just repair/replace it.

Problem is VW customer services will be a call centre manned by total numpties. You needed to speak to a technical manager who knows the facts but as I said above its irreleveant in your case, warranty is expired.

Edited by skidpan on 26/01/2016 at 11:29

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

Great informative post skidpan thank you.

If your friend has had the car less than 6 months he may have a legal right to reject the car for a full refund. The fact that the garage have had the car 2 months should help his case. They need to act fast as the 6 month limit is rapidly approaching and the rejection needs to be handled correctly. Suggest your friend joins Which who have a proforma that ensures its done correctly.

I'm quite liking the above, but how would he be able to go about this and get a full refund whereas the garage may insist on a repair - is it legally possible to reject a repair option and demand a full refund? Thought the SOGA says we first have to allow the garage to repair it first before asking for a refund?

Your friend must continue to pay the finance. If they don't the Finance company will simply reposses the car and they will be out of pocket with a black mark against their name. Since the car is on finance they have extra help available. Under UK law the finance company are also liable for the product thus I suggset they are contaced and informed about the situation. Under UK law they must assist.

Duly noted, will ring finance company, see what they say.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - RobJP

Your friend will NOT have the right to reject. That came in with the Consumer Rights Act, which only applies to purchases made after 1st November 2015.

As I said, letter to them (recorded post) saying that if they do not come to an agreement with him within 14 days, he will get the car fixed at his expense, and then Small Claims Court them for the full cost.

Do note that he MUST be reasonable in his expectations. While he may WANT to reject the car, in law he has no right to do so, andthat could well be viewed as unreasonable on his part. However, an offer from the garage to undertake the expenses of repair would be reasonable, and should be accepted (if made).

But it sounds like they don't want to accept their responsibilities in law. In which case he's going to be paying for the repair, and then taking them to court for the sum. BUT he must do it properly, as in the recorded delivery letter giving last chance, etc.

ALL communications with the selling garage should be by letter (recorded post) from now on. Nothing by telephone. Proof is everything.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - skidpan

Thought the SOGA says we first have to allow the garage to repair it first before asking for a refund?

Correct but your friends car is at the garage and so far from what you wrote above they have made no attempt at a repair after 2 months or more and this is what I believe strengthens your case.

But first you need to get the Finance company on side. They have far more clout than you do since the dealer will not want to upset them and loose his ability to sell cars on finance.

If your friend paid a deposit on a credit card the credit card company are also responsible. If this is the case inform them.

The important facts are you need to be back on the road ASAP with a fully functioning car. If that is achieved by repairing the car you have no case, if they continue to do nothing your case for getting a refund is far stronger.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Bromptonaut

OP may find some help on Citizens Advice website:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/

If he wants to speak to someone try Consumer helpline on 03454 04 05 06

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

Thank you all for your helpful replies

Correct but your friends car is at the garage and so far from what you wrote above they have made no attempt at a repair after 2 months or more and this is what I believe strengthens your case.


Sorry, should have made clear, the car is still sat on my friend's drive, the used car dealer has not seen the car as yet; the used car dealer tried to get my friend to ask VW to try and fix it under some sort of goodwill gesture. He had to have the car towed to the local VW garage only for VW to turn around and tell him they will charge him £500 just to diagnose it. He declined VW's "generous" offer and then had the car towed back to his drive where it has remained ever since.

Instead of Registered post is email also a good option - perhaps with a read receipt? as a way of keeping a trace of communications.

Next port of call is very much the finance company.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - RobJP

No, he needs PROOF of delivery if it ever comes to Court. That will only be confirmed by a signature, so registered post.

Email, while all well and good, does not provide that absolute proof in a courtroom. Someone has to sign for the letter, and that means it is all on record.

It also makes it very official. They know he's not messing about.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Brit_in_Germany

The old SOGA did include a right to rescind the contract (§48A, which also includes the 6 month term). If the supplying dealer is making life difficult, getting a solicitor on board would be a good idea.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

No, he needs PROOF of delivery if it ever comes to Court. That will only be confirmed by a signature, so registered post.

Email, while all well and good, does not provide that absolute proof in a courtroom. Someone has to sign for the letter, and that means it is all on record.

It also makes it very official. They know he's not messing about.

Duly noted, will get letter sent via recorded delivery.

The old SOGA did include a right to rescind the contract (§48A, which also includes the 6 month term). If the supplying dealer is making life difficult, getting a solicitor on board would be a good idea.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54/part/5A

just looking at the above regarding getting a refund - think it depends on whether a repair or refund is disproprotionate to one another - from what I can make out at least.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - TedCrilly

Too much heresay going on here. The OP needs the services of a solicitor. To inform him correctly of the legal rights both sides have, to advise on the best way forward and get the result he wants, to make contact the seller and remind him of his obligations and inform him of the consequences and..... if it does all end up in court to represent the buyer.

The seller has already lied to the buyer, is obviously attempting to shrug off his responsibilities and is being totaly unco-operative. He has probably done it all before. There is a lot of money at stake here, do we really think a stiff letter from someone who thinks they know what they are talking about is going to make him suddenly jump to and start signing cheques?......I for one dont.

Easy way or the hard way......your choice.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - RobJP

The OP doesn't need a solicitor. That's just expense which they won't get back.

SOGA quite clearly says that, for a fault which occurs within 6 months, the assumption in law is that it was 'present or developing' at the time of sale, and the retailer is responsible for fixing it. CRA is irrelevant, as it came into law after the sale, and is not retrospective.

So he informs the selling garage that he knows what his rights are, and that he intends making sure the garage complete their obligations. As such, either the garage get it fixed, or if they refuse, he gets it fixed and then issues a claim against them in SCC. Judgement in such a case would be virtually a formality.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - TedCrilly

I admire your optimism, I really do, particularly as all you know about the situation is what you have been told by a third party.

Quoting SOGA blah blah is all very good and in theory the right thing to do but getting the seller to face up to his obligations and actually act will be something else. BTW how long does the SCC process take? Its 9-10 months in my area at present.

Shouldnt we at least be first determining why the gearbox has failed? Will a SCC against the seller be succesful if it transpires the box lost its fluid through accidential damage for instance?

Too many people in here who think they know what they are talking about, but if you are the sort of person who takes legal advive from anonimous individuals in forums such as this I am sure you are sensible enough to realise it may well end up costing you more in the long run, both in time and money.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - pd

Judgement in such a case would be virtually a formality.

There is no such thing in the legal world as a formality.

Even if it is, it isn't necessarily a formality to actually get any money which is a seperate thing.

I get emails and letters daily from various specialist motor trade legal companies offering to advise me to set up a structure where, frankly, there is no chance of ever having to pay for anything ever.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - skidpan

Too much heresay going on here.

Going to your Finance company for assistance when products are faulty is not hearsay, its fact.

If they won't help go to the Financial Ombusman to ascertain what your actual rights are.

Buying anything on Finance or using your credit car is great protection when things go wrong and the seller refuses to help.

Problem with solicitors is a) they are expensive and b) you need to find a specialist for your needs and that tends to be more expensive.

Problem with Consumer Protection/Citizens Rights (call it what you like) is the person you speak too can be helpful but totally lacking in knowledge. One example, person at work bought faulty goods from B & Q and one told by their duty manager that SOGA did not apply to them and they did not repair/replace them. Solution was to deal direct with manufacturer. They contacted Consumer Direct who agreed saying stores could opt out of Government legislation. Everyone in the office told the person to visit the B & Q store and ask to see the manager (not the Duty Manager) which they did. He was very apologetic, agreed they were responsible, could not undestand his colleagues reasoning and replaced item on the spot. The Duty Manager was next seen working in the council Gym on reception.

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - TedCrilly

Problem with solicitors is a) they are expensive and b) you need to find a specialist for your needs and that tends to be more expensive.

But you never get problems from used car dealers when things go wrong now do you.

I say let the OP decide his best course of action.

Magic beans for sale.......anyone interested?

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - TedCrilly

For the advocates of the SCC process........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/10757159/Small-claims-courts-failing-the-public.html

VW Touran 12plate Auto - 12 plate VW Touran Auto Gearbox gone 3 months - Howard Ino

Thanks for the range of respones and ways of dealing with this.

To be fair to the used car dealer, having spoken to him on the phone recently, he does seem like a nice enough guy. You can usually tell the cowboy types by their mannerisms. He is trying to find the most cost effective solution (prob. more for themselves!), he knows (and has been mentioned above and I've seen in other threads regarding this particular model) that VW can be bought to task for the gearbox failure on such a young model with reasonable mileage.

However, we have gone down that road and it hasn't worked (or won't be easy), so now asking the garage to sort it out. Also chasing the finance company.

At this stage, as we are in the early stages (of asking the garage to sort out the problem directly), we'll take the good'ol British diplomacy route (nice but firm) over the next few days/week. If that fails we can always then go down the American'all guns blazing solicitor route.

Thanks again for the responses, I now feel empowered.