I thought the instruction this week was *much* better.
The problem areas identified tallied with my own views on my riding and seemed to be:
1) Tailgating. - I do it so I can use my acceleration to overtake cars out of corners. I agree it's wrong and I shouldn't. Just too tempting. If there's no hope of an overtake I leave 2 seconds plus a bit for the rain.
2) Entering corners too fast. - I do this 'cos life's too short to change gears all the time - I try and leave it in a high gear all the way round - this often means going in too fast and therefore sometimes braking mid corner if something unexpected occurs. Laziness really. After a few hours in the saddle constantly keeping the bike in it's power band is too tiring. (In fact the real problem here is gear work not cornering.)
3) Forward observation. I am amazed this was a problem because I'm always peering into the distance. However It's irrefutable that I wasn't taking note of signals from road signs and road markings. I can and will correct this.
One thing mentioned that I disagree with is positioning. I reckon my positioning on Sundays slippery unpredictable roads was 90 per cent correct and as good as anyone else's.
What wasn't mentioned was that slowing down a bit would help get all these things right. But I don't want to slow down. I want to keep up with the fastest...
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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"sometimes braking mid corner"
Sharp intake of breath.
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"sometimes braking mid corner" Sharp intake of breath.
Elaborate?
I assume it is under certain circumstances ok to brake mid corner? Like if you find a pile of mud/JCB/Baby you weren't expecting?
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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"Tailgating. - I do it so I can use my acceleration to overtake cars out of corners."
"going in too fast and therefore sometimes braking mid corner"
And what happens when the guy you're tailgating round a corner brakes mid corner? Ouch.
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"Tailgating. - I do it so I can use my acceleration to overtake cars out of corners." "going in too fast and therefore sometimes braking mid corner" And what happens when the guy you're tailgating round a corner brakes mid corner? Ouch.
That is the one big advantage of being observed as opposed to just reading roadcraft.
Comments like Hairy Hat Mans really bring it home to you that my current attitude of 'just this once won't hurt' (repeated 15 times in a 3 hour ride) just isn't good enough.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad,
Braking mid corner is a no-no...a basic rule is 'You must drive so that you can stop safely on your own side of the road in the distance you can see to be clear'.
If you want to keep up with the fast drivers, enter the corner at the right speed, in the right gear and you will come out of the bend more quickly - maybe even do an overtake if you want to, when the limit point opens up?
Keep at it!
Matt35.
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I can even be in "too high a gear" cornering
(my Kawasaki "Hog copy" has LOTS of torque)
- Your going too fast into some bends is not a "gear problem".
It is only a speed problem.
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I can even be in "too high a gear" cornering (my Kawasaki "Hog copy" has LOTS of torque)
- Your going too fast into some bends is not a "gear problem". It is only a speed problem.
The two aren't exclusive!
If I dropped two cogs and got into the power band I would inevitably be going into the corner slower. (Being in too high a gear gives me an incentinve to keep revs up by going too fast.)
To be honest I just can't be bothered to ride everywhere like it's brands hatch and I need to be ready for escape velocity launch on the exit!
I'm glad I discussed this here because it all has become clearer to me.
Matt35: I see what you're saying but riding at a speed where you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear is simply not possible round a totally blind bend. If you did slow to a walking pace you'd simply get wiped out from behind! I had a long chat with a rozzer biker about this when I first started. I'd watched another rozzer crest a brow of a hill at a fair pace. The rozzer said you do have to push that rule at the same time as doing everything you can to maximise visibility.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad
Braking in the corner is a no-no because it can unbalance the vehicle. Braking moves the 'weight' of the car to the front, rather than the middle during normal driving and at the rear in acceleration. This can lead to the car becoming unstable and can also lead to understeer, which is especially undesirable if taking a tight corner or hazard avoidance.
Jonathan (very tired, but happy)
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Toad,
A couple of times a year I do the things you do every minute of every ride**...and then it gives me a chilling feeling that a disaster could have resulted.
I think age brings on that warning chill...you'll get it one day and stop(ish).
;-)
Braking mid corner....
OK so we shouldn't aim for it every time but modern cars* are very forgiving and you ought to know what it feels like and how it will change the attitude of your car.
After having a Triumph Herald and rear engined VW as my first two cars I bought a 1966 Rover 2000. I still remember saying the Rover was brilliant because at last I could brake hard in a bend without disaster.
After learing on the fist two anything else these days is rock solid.
**I'm in a car of course.
*Yes I know you were talking bikes but I can hardly remember back to mid-corner braking in biking days...in fact I thought that was the thing you did every time before falling off!
MM
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A couple of times a year I do the things you do every minute of every ride**...and then it gives me a chilling feeling that a disaster could have resulted.
This is why 3rd party training helps.
You get used to taking small risks, so you take more.
You need someone to remind you that the risks you think are taken on rare occasions (almost as treats) are still very foolish.
Hairy Hat Mans comment made the blood run cold, as did a few things said yesterday.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Hairy Hat Mans comment made the blood run cold, as did a few things said yesterday.
But surely your blood always runs cold? Never met a warm-blooded Toad yet.
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On a bike, braking through the corner depends on the characteristics of the bike you are riding, some 'sit up' if you touch the brakes, others just decelerate smoothly. I'd say it depends on the bend, where I leave the motorway towards a give way sign I brake gently for most of the way round, as Toad said you risk getting wiped out by following traffic if you are too slow into the bend. Like most of these 'cast in stone' rules I think a bit of personal interpretation is needed, I use engine braking into bends more than the brakes.
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On a bike, braking through the corner depends on the characteristics of the bike you are riding, some 'sit up' if you touch the brakes
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad,
Going back and studying your first post in this thread, it occurs to me that all 3 points are interconnected and are causing you to take unnecessary risks.
Let's start with number 3 - forward observation. By good positioning and observation of not just the road in front of you but all the available information about where the road is going beyond the corner (telegraph poles, chimneys, hedges etc) you can anticipate the opportunity to maximise speed on the exit of the corner. Getting the speed right before the entry to the corner is the key to success and that means judging the fastest SAFE speed into the visible apex of the corner. (Of course, on a blind corner you won't be able to see the true apex, so you have to 'chase it' round the bend as you go.)
Once you've got that right, you're in a perfect position to start winding on the power from the apex through the exit and beyond. At this point you have not only maintained decent speed into the corner but added to it significantly and should now have the view ahead to assess the possibility of an overtake. In fact, you'd probably have to brake to avoid overtaking the guy who got to the corner well ahead of you.
As for not wanting to slow down, any racing driver will tell you 'first in, last out' of any corner. It's not the speed with which you get into the corner, but how much speed you maintain and carry through it on to the next that counts.
I hope the guys taking you on your rides have given you the opportunity to observe them. When I did my advanced training, my bike had a good 60 bhp on my instructors, yet he left me standing. Why? Because while I was busily accelerating for all I was worth between corners and then grabbing handfuls of brakes into and round the corners, he was making full use of what he could see ahead of him allowing him to maintain speed through all his manoeuvres. It's all about making as much progress as possible with as little fuss (i.e. change of speed) whilst avoiding or minimizing all hazards.
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Hi Hairy,
For some reason, although this is true, it doesn't seem to help.
The first couple of years I was riding I was always slow into corners in a low gear, chase the vanishing point round then power out when it opened up.
Now I'm more used to it all lazyness and tiredness make coasting everywhere in top too tempting to resist...
There's no doubt that if I choose to I could revert to a slow in fast out approach.
Incidently I'm not heavy on brakes. I'll engine brake 70 per cent of the time.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Toad, I can't rememeber the steed you have, but whatever it is it has too much power - not in the sense of the tree huggers, but it's making you, in your own admission, lazy.
You want to borrow a 400 or something that you've got to work on to keep up.
Either that or admit you're past it and get a twist-and-go (sorry ;-).
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Toad,
Re Hairys' post - just got home from 3rd drive with 18 year old.
Got him to name every sign out loud since 2nd drive and his observation - and reactions to signs - are improving quickly.
Might be good to cover your mouth on a bike though?
Matt35.
PS - do Toads eat flies?
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Matt 35. It's a divvy 600, not powerful at all but what little there is is quite low down!
I like your hyper tuned 400 idea!
I also like the calling roadsign idea. I relised on sunday that I am always hunting for cross road (danger) or speed limit signs (The sooner I get into a 30 the sooner I get out) but subconciously 'filter' out some other useful signs. ('Slow' emblazoned on the surface often means there's a junction/hazard round the corner, signs indicating a junction placed before corners.) Will do this. (Althought I'm usually busy singing to myself...)
Gagging to go out and have another go. I know I can put in a good run even if it's at 3/4 pace.
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Gagging to go out and have another go. I know I can put in a good run even if it's at 3/4 pace.
Didn't realise you were on a bike, Toad of Toad Hall. I've got an Aprilla 125. Had it for 9 months now. Will have to sell it when I pass my car test. Did you go out again?
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Wasting your time. My driving instructor said they're a bunch of old gits who can't remember what it's like to drive for fun. Coffin dodgers in old Granadas.
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Hmmmm. "My driving instructor said"
Wordly-wise are we then Eddie?
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Eddie,
Just looked outside - you had me worried!
It's still the X Type that lapped Millbrook at 130 mph in December.
As I paid enough for it to get me through 8 or 9 driving instructor courses, as advertised in the newspapers,I am relieved.
Give it a try - most Associates report much improved enjoyment and more relaxed driving after the IAM course.
Regards,
Matt35.
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I'll have to pass my test first. I still think IAM is boring. Much rather do a rally course.>> Eddie, Just looked outside - you had me worried! It's still the X Type that lapped Millbrook at 130 mph in December. As I paid enough for it to get me through 8 or 9 driving instructor courses, as advertised in the newspapers,I am relieved. Give it a try - most Associates report much improved enjoyment and more relaxed driving after the IAM course.
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Steady Eddie,
You are new here, so some tips...
Firstly, don't quote the note you are replying to and then let it run into your own typing. It makes notes very difficult to read.
Secondly, you were asking about the 10:00am message ? I am the moderator, this is a motoring site, not a place for you to test your internet skills. The others knew that I would delete your note as soon as I found it.
Lastly, you might like to hang back from sweeping statements about how boring IAM is or is not until you at least have a driving licence. You will find people very friendly here unless you rub them up the wrong way. Its best to avoid that.
That said, you are welcome, whatever your experience, but behave maturely and perhaps reread the Ts&Cs found to your left under "The Small Print"
Mark.
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I have a new problem. I\'ve forgotten my password and the site hasn\'t got my user name on record. I\'ve logged on again as Steady_Eddie2 with the same e-mail address. Can it be changed to Steady_Eddie again?
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Ooops. Quoted again. That won't happen again.
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Done it. Am Steady Eddie again.
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Ooops. Quoted again. That won't happen again.
It is ok to quote, but what Mark was infering was that if you do quote, then add your reply afterwards, not before. Bit like a book really, you read it from top to bottom.
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Eddie. Actually IAM instruction would help you, but wait a few years for bad habits to creep in. Assuming you survive that long of course. I hope you do, but something like 1 in 5 newbies have a crash in the first year.
The IAM are not all tartan blanket fanciers though many would regard Thora Hird as a youngster. In the last ten years I have only felt uncomfortable once as a passenger in a car. That was on a demonstration drive by an IAM observer (=instructor) when he went well fast down a country road. Much too fast in my opinion.
In the lessons I was encouraged to accelerate more and taught how to use gears to gain extra safety, such as accelerating out of danger. I was also taught how to get a smooth gear change. All good useful stuff that would impress your mates.
The driving test is simply to help ensure that you have basic car control skills. Nothing more.
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Eddie,
Well done - you have given a thoughtful reply to liefs' comments!
Mark had a go at you a few days ago - and some of us have commented on your reactions to advice.
We are not' holier than thou' - I had a bump (my error) in my first year driving, and got nicked for speeding in my second year and have done some really dumb things behind the wheel.
The comments you get on this website - one of the best you can read about driving - are sometimes from older people who wish to help you avoid the mistakes we remember having made in our youth.
In case you have lost the Biblical thread - look under the new Speeding thread where Mark has put it - and let me know the answer to my question about braking distances.
Regards,
Matt.
PS - someone mentioned Thora Hird somewhere - have you seen her control of that stairlift?
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The comments you get on this website - one of the best you can read about driving - are sometimes from older people who wish to help you avoid the mistakes we remember having made in our youth.
A small subset of which involved driving in some way!!! ;-)
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