Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 16:24
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - Trilogy

www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/rover-2000-ver...s

Shows how badly many cars ride today.

“Yes, the handling is good. It inspires confidence.” And how does it cope with the cobblestoned section? “What cobblestones? I didn’t feel them.”

Back at base, Verhelle considers what 50 years of development have achieved. “There’s much less in the way of assistance and driver aids here, but this car drives more comfortably than most modern cars. I have a 1954 Citroën 2CV and today I’m angry with Citroën. They have lost their big attribute: a comfortable ride.”

Next up, Zsolt Csikos from Hungarian website Totalcar.hu. “It has a good turning circle,” he remarks as we thread our way past a sea of shortlisters. Into the first bend, with enthusiasm. “There’s a lot of body roll, but the steering is nice and fluid and it weights up the right amount. I love the gearbox with its very short movements, and there’s lots of torque.”

A few corners later, we’re at the cobbles again. “There are no rattles at all. This suspension is incredible, and the seats are comfortable in the way French ones used to be. I’m really overwhelmed.”

There’s a theme developing here: somewhere along the way, car makers have forgotten about true comfort while chasing ‘sportier’ handling. Yet the Rover, for all its body roll, is beautifully damped and very grippy

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 18:07
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - brum

As a kid I remember the Rover P5 series being fantastically impressive to be driven in, real limosenes. I only had a few rides in the rover 2000 and its 3500 cousin, again cosseted luxury.

Never ridden in the BL era rovers, I expect they were where it all went wrong.

A lot of Triumphs were also magic until BL came along.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 18:45
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - corax

"Comfort, driving involvement, the view out... not all progress in the last fifty years has been in a forward direction it seems"

Have to disagree with the last point. In those days, people were very likely to get killed in an accident. Thick pillars are a nuisance to see around, but modern cars have saved many lives that might not have been in the Rover P6 era.

Agree on comfort. You would think it would be easier to get a better ride today due to the incredible stiffness of a modern bodyshell allowing the suspension components to work properly without bodyflex.

But wasn't the good ride partly due to the rear suspension on a Rover P6 with it's de dion axle and watts linkage? Would you be able to do that on a mass produced modern car cheaply? It's more to do with spring and damper rates I would have thought, the former just locating the axle properly. For example a Focus Mk1 manages to combine a good ride with good handling.

Unique front suspension on the P6 too.

I miss that individuality from cars. Modern cars now are completely yawn inducing, and I think it's bad for peoples soul.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 19:24
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - Oli rag

How many people really value cornering speed or a flat ride, over comfortable suspension and seats.

Have we all been led to believe, extreme cornering speed is more important than a comfortable ride?

I like to waft along in a car, I don't want to race why do most modern cars not give me this option?

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 20:01
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - Alby Back
I learned to drive ( shortly after the dark ages ) in my dad's then newish Volvo 240.

I loved that car and while I accept that I may be viewing it with a rose tinted retrospective, I've never really since found anything as pleasingly cosseting to drive.

My current car is a modern Mercedes and you can't fault it on the wafty front. It requires no more effort than sleeping to drive but somehow my memory of that old Volvo trumps it.

Probably, if not certainly, best if I never test the theory. I'm not sure I could live with the disappointment.

;-)
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Sun 29 Mar 2015 20:15
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - corax

Have we all been led to believe, extreme cornering speed is more important than a comfortable ride?

It creates more business for osteopaths.

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Sun 29 Mar 2015 21:54
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - gordonbennet

P6 was a very strong structure, one of the strongest bulkheads made, had to be the front springs were mounted on the level against it.

Agree about the ride quality it was amazing, i kept the DeDion tubes properly serviced on mine where most left them to deteriorate when the bellows would perish or split, the tube acted as a third rear damper, and so effective was it that you could take sleeping policemen at 30 mph and passengers not looking at the road would never know you'd crossed one.

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 01:31
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - Avant

I alwys thought that the Triumph 2000, which came out at the same time (1963) as the Rover, was the better bet. It had a six-cylinder engine rather than the rather unrefined four of the Rober; it had more room for people and things; and Triumph seats rivalled Volvo's for comfort and support.

Don't despair Alby: Volvo still have the best seats in the business, as I've been reminded by a very pleasant two-hour test drive in a V60 last week. Not big enough for you though!

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 11:01
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - craig-pd130

Don't despair Alby: Volvo still have the best seats in the business, as I've been reminded by a very pleasant two-hour test drive in a V60 last week. Not big enough for you though!

Which V60 variant did you try, Avant? D2, 3, 4, 5 or T6?

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 14:24
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - madf

I alwys thought that the Triumph 2000, which came out at the same time (1963) as the Rover, was the better bet. It had a six-cylinder engine rather than the rather unrefined four of the Rober; it had more room for people and things; and Triumph seats rivalled Volvo's for comfort and support.

In the early 1970s, I test drove both - s/h. The Rover was quite small inside and the Triumph was much nicer to drive I felt.- so I bought a Triumph 2.5PI. As long as you carefully greased the rear slding halfshafts it was a great car.. very smooth and quiet.. (If you did not grease them, then they locked on spirited cornering and unlocked giving a sudden sideways lurch.. Not nice (I believe the TR6/Stag were similar... )

The overdrive on 2/3/4 was a very nice touch..Mine was very relaible - after an engine rbuild by me on my own..(It was HEAVY to remove).I had no fuel injection problems as I changed fuel filters religioulsy...

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 15:16
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - Trilogy

2.5 PI was very fast. A friend's father had one. He drive like a lunatic, but remarkably didn't kill himself or anyone else. At about the age of 12, I was a passenger in it, along with him and my fiend. On the back roads from Diss to Norwich, one Saturday afternoon, he reached 112 mph in it. The fastest I'd ever been in a car. Since then the fastest has been 115 mph, as a passenger in a Porshe 911 Turbo.

Also went many times as a child in a friend's parents P6 2000. I often had to sit in the middle of the back seat. Not very comfortable when the back seat was shaped for two. My dad nearly bought a Triumph 2500S. Sadly it was just too much money. Ended up with a Lancia Beta 2000 instead. Shame we didn't have the Triumph. Lancia was very nice until the rust problem!

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 15:25
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - gordonbennet

P6 was quite acceptably fast in TC form, i had one, and it was replaced by a 3500 P6 auto in exactly the same colour, that really was a superb car, head to head i don't know which would have won in a race with a 2.5 Triumph, but for absolute driving pleasure the Rover won me over, and that wondrous V8 soundtrack for aural pleasures.

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 15:33
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - skidpan

Back in the 60's and until the mid 70's I was passenger in several Rover and Triumph 2000's and their variants.

I remember that both seemed like nice really cars compared the the usual Cortina, Minx, Viva stuff my dad had at the time. The Rover had those nice seats trimmed in leather with a "sporty" 4 cylinder engine wheras the Triumph had ventilated PVC seats and that nice strait 6. Guess it would have been a difficult choice at the time for buyers.

Only 2 weekends ago a Triumph 2.5 PI passed us on the M1. It had vinyl graphics on the side proclaiming it was on a round Brittain reliability trial, wonder if its made it. We were doing a genuine 70 mph and it left us for dead. One thing we noted as it passed us was how small it looked even compared to the usual small car fodder of today e.g. Corsa's, Polo's etc.

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 16:29
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - peterb

"Have we all been led to believe, extreme cornering speed is more important than a comfortable ride?"

Er, yes... How else do you explain the obsession with "sports" suspension, low profile tyres and other nonsense.

And it's not just the ride that's ruined, it's refinement.

I don't understand the preference for theoretically better handling over comfort and refinement.

I tend to buy newish cars and often end up not having the top spec due to the silly wheels it comes on....

Edited by peterb on 30/03/2015 at 16:32

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 16:49
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - jayem

In 1972 I had a visit from my Regional Director (an insignificant man who had an enormously inflated opinion of his own importance) who drove from Birmingham in his Rover 2000. He took me to lunch and it turned out to be the only time that I was ever in one and the abiding memory of it was how small it was inside. Actually, another memory was how appallingly he drove it!

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Wed 1 Apr 2015 18:51
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - mss1tw

"Have we all been led to believe, extreme cornering speed is more important than a comfortable ride?"

Er, yes... How else do you explain the obsession with "sports" suspension, low profile tyres and other nonsense.

And it's not just the ride that's ruined, it's refinement.

I don't understand the preference for theoretically better handling over comfort and refinement.

I tend to buy newish cars and often end up not having the top spec due to the silly wheels it comes on....

It's cheaper to stiffen up springs than do proper continued suspension development

More worn parts and labour costs from knackered components above

People loving the idea of having a 'race car' on the road

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Mon 30 Mar 2015 21:49
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - craig-pd130

Here's what Autocar thought about the Rover and Triumph at the time:

Rover 2000 P6: www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/sets/721576.../

Triumph 2500S: www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/sets/721576.../

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Tue 31 Mar 2015 08:03
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - madf

Somewhere I have a little black notebook with the costs of running my 2.5PI written in biro.. I may dig it out...

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Wed 1 Apr 2015 06:56
Rover 2000 versus European Car of the Year finalis - Happy Blue!

Proper road tests they are. Lots of details both in words and images/diagrams as well as decent quality English.

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