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ORB, The Peugeot systems don't use extra diesel on the exhaust stroke, they use Eolys fluid to do the regen. The last time I repaired a Peugeot with a DPF fault it was the differential pressure sensor at fault.
Quite often garages just do not have the correct approach to fault finding DPF systems, as soon as they plug in a scanner and get a DPF code they think the DPF itself needs replacing.
Your right on the usage though and the fact nobody tells people if the car is unsuitable for their use.
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ORB, The Peugeot systems don't use extra diesel on the exhaust stroke, they use Eolys fluid to do the regen.
Correct. Silly me...
So what happens if the eolys fluid runs out?
And how many owners of cars with this system know they have it? I still meet people who have diesels for urban use and still get similar problems.
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Yes, I do but I do motorway miles too so no reason for this to have happened surely. How on earth as a customer would I know to ask that? Buy car, drive car, put diesel, water and oil in. Bit too late now I'm saddled with a car I'm scared to use and can't sell on...
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I guess a lot of us on here will sympathise with you having to foot a huge bill like that. The modern diesel (and petrols too to a less extent) are very complex beasts with huge bill potential when it all goes wrong. The latest diesels are so complicated that many folk-myself included- would not run one privately, especially out of warranty. But of course it is not in a dealers best interests to lose a sale by explaining this. Years ago, a diesel was a simple, reliable engine with long life expectancy but these days, there is so much more to go wrong as engines and after-engine treatment increase complexity driven by EU regulations. The latest EU 6 regs bring a step change again in complexity. Some manufacturers eg Toyota are moving away from diesel entirely.
You should be able to sell on though, as your model is no different to any other modern one and there is still strong demand for diesel.
I always advise choosing a petrol engine from a manufacturer with established reliability- something from Honda or Toyota or possibly Hyundai- with the long warranty. There are still models around with relatively straightforward petrol engineering eg Auris, Civic, Avensis etc. Recent German makes are great to drive but running cutting edge technology, ok under warranty but potential liability outside. I do hope you have better luck with the next car!
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I don't understand how a failing DPF can lead to a new turbo or engine.
DPF blocks up, engine goes into limp mode or won't run at all, car gets dragged in, DPF cleaned or replaced, job done...to be fair PSA engines don't seem to suffer the DPF problems that other makes do due to the aforesaid EOLYS additive helping the burn off.
Would like more information from the OP, such as why did the car need a new engine let alone a turbo, was there a full service history with the car when bought.
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There was a full service history With only 10,000 when I purchased it, it's had four oil changes with recommended oil. It went into limp mode, was told by peugeot that the turbo had failed and could be down to not using grade oil that was recommended which isn't the case, took it to my mechanic who put a new turbo on and then discovered low oil pressure had killed the engine. There are cases of this happening all over the Internet which prompted my question how are peugeot and many others geettung away with this?
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So where does the DPF failing come into it.
Presumably this is the fast becoming famous for all the wrong reasons 1.6HDi engine as favoured by Pug/Cit/Ford/Volvo etc.
When a new turbo is fitted to one of these engines there is a whole raft of measures required to ensure the new turbo doesn't follow the old one in rapid succession, many hours of work involved making the job one costly exercise to do right...simply bolting another turbo in place without the exhaustive extra work often results in another failure, and can lead to oil starvation in the engine.
A search on here will find umpteen posts about the turbo issues with Focus' fitted with this engine.
This engine is just one of many modern Diesels that owners who want them to last would be well advised to up (or rather half) the makers suggested oil service intervals and make sure their engines have the best oils possible....but this should be done from new IMHO.
Makers arn't getting away with it as such, they warrant the car for 3 years in most cases where this engine is fitted, they usually have problems out of warranty when servicing might have been not kept up to scratch or corners (costs) cut...unfortunately many people don't research cars before buying them and only bother to look on t'internet when the things packed up landing them with massive bills.
Edited by gordonbennet on 08/03/2015 at 15:04
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Thank you.
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No warnings - Sounds like the DPF expired under previous ownership and someone flashed the ECU to get rid of the error and sold it on quick. As the DPF continued to clog with no warning the turbo overheated and then the exhaust valves burned due to backpressure and heat.
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So really, Depending on the car, if you buy a used diesel factor in a minimum of£5000 and see if the car is worth it if you have to pay that out in repairs for a new engine.
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And when we have a Labour/SNP alliance in May, the war on the motorist will reccomence and you can guarantee diesel drivers will be the number 1 target.
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You have evidence for this or is it just plain old fashioned prejudice talking here?
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just plain old fashioned prejudice talking here?
No sh*it sherlock :-P
Edited by Bromptonaut on 08/03/2015 at 21:52
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My opinion is based upon the previous 13 years of a Labour govt and the attitude and taxes towards motorists.
Throw in the mix the SNP and the motorist doesnt stand a chance.
The party that encouraged the diesel, will tax it off the roads.
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Back to OP topic. The OP states that the Peugeot has covered is 2008 registered, making it between 7 years 2 months old and 6 months 2 months old, so it has covered between aprox 5600 to 6400 a year.
I wonder if its more a case that the car was the wrong car for the owner before Island Gal i.e car was unsutiable for low annual mileage and unfortunaly Island Gal inherit the problems caused by the previous owner(s) low mileage.
Also I wonder by the user name of Island Gal, that he/she leaves on an Island and therefore a diesel may not be suitable for them?
If I was going to purchase another diesel, I would go for one that at least covered over 10,000 miles a year, hopefully therefore the dpf would be allowed to regenerate sucessfully
Edited by Car on 09/03/2015 at 00:40
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Exactly. Low mileage on a diesel (or petrol) not always good.
When I bought the Rio was happy it had 11,000 miles and serviced on time.
And to another poster I am expecting my £30 ved to rise substantially after the election.
Edited by oldroverboy. on 09/03/2015 at 08:55
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Yes... I live on Island that has a bridge, and a motorway at the end of it! I am sick so the car isn't used daily, but is used for regular motorway journeys. I did research before I bought the car as was a 307 owner and happy with comfort and reliability of that car. As unable to work the low running costs were of importance to me. I have done everything the manufacturer suggests as I said the car being serviced three times with grade oil used etc. If this is owner fault, rather than a manufacturing problem then why are there pages and pages of complaints on here about 1.6 and 2litre Diesel engines? Interested to hear a suggestion of the DPF failing and the fault being cleared, that's a possibility I guess as I was confused why there was no warning of the problem, but also no smoke etc. It's odd.
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Also my mechanic was all too aware of these problems, and did all that was needed to the DPF system before he fitted the turbo otherwise he's not fixing the fault that caused it, so that's not what caused the engine to fail imho.
Also if the DPF failed and the fault was cleared and the car sold on, then it was in warranty as I had a year's left when I bought it so I don't understand why that wouldn't have been fixed?
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Personally I don't think you can calculate it on mileage alone. When a DPF system is working correctly they can regenerate on a fairly short journey provided the engine is up to temperature and your going above 40mph.
My diesel with DPF often regenerates on the way to or from the city and thats only 8 miles away on NSL single carriage way.
Of course if there was anything wrong with the management control of regenerating it, It would never do a regen and result in a blocked filter.
My main gripe with DPF systems is that the vehicles usually gives no visible indication to driver about it's status. So they simply do not know if it is working correctly or not.
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As I have to drive on a dual carriageway to get to work once a week the regeneration should have taken place surely so wonder if you're right. Regeneration aside there are plenty of stories on here causing turbo and engine failiure which goes back to my original post - how are they getting away with it?
Never buying a diesel again!
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Personally I don't think you can calculate it on mileage alone. When a DPF system is working correctly they can regenerate on a fairly short journey provided the engine is up to temperature and your going above 40mph.
My diesel with DPF often regenerates on the way to or from the city and thats only 8 miles away on NSL single carriage way.
Agreed.
Our Ceed CRDi will regenerate on our way back from Tesco's on mixed urban and rural roads. Its about 10 miles and takes about 20 minutes and even on a good day you never get much above 50 mph. Manual says keeps revs between 1500 and 2000.
Regardless of current use if the OP's car has been filled regularly using small amounts of diesel during its previous life the Eolys tank will empty quicker (since a fixed amount of Eolys is injected into the tank at every fill up) and without Eolys no regen and a blocked DPF. This is why Ford changed the Eolys tank service schedule to fill every 37,500 miles.
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Can you tell me how you know its regeneratin please?
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No idea if its the same on a Peugeot but on both the BMW we had and the Kia the engine note becomes slightly harder, the idling erratic, the fuel consumption halves, if you get out of the car it can smell like its burning and the tailpipe gets red hot.
In truth once on the open road the only sign is the decrease in mpg.
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Thank you... Weird, didn't have any of that.
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Can you tell me how you know its regeneratin please?
I think the door mirrors get hot and the cooling fan comes on (and stays on when you've parked up). Not a brilliant system.
The central screen should display "risk of filter blocking" and "unblock diesel filter" if there are any DPF issues.
I can't add much else to the discussion that hasn't been said. As a 307 owner and Peugeot diagnostics man I wouldn't recommend an early model 308, especially a diesel, to anyone, not only because of the general quality of the car (I see lots of 308s with only 50k-60k on the clock that need the DPF system sorting), but the way former owners hide problems and quickly sell on the car when a big bill is due, or the owners who haven't bothered with regular oil changes or used the correct oil.
Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 09/03/2015 at 13:41
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Can you tell me how you know its regeneratin please?
I think the door mirrors get hot...
Say WHAT?
A joke?
Nah, that'd be too cruel.
Maybe new cars are the joke,
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Like I said, If there is a fault in the management system (control system of DPF) then it will not regenerate ever. Even if the conditions are ideal.
As Skidpan has pointed out, Everytime the car is refuelled it injects some Eolys fluid. So partial refills are not ideal.
What do you mean "how are they getting away with it?" If you mean the car manufacturers, They are only responsible for vehicle while it is in the warranty period. Once it is out of warranty then tough luck basically.
Like has already been pointed out by GB, The turbo failures are often due to lack of oil changes and the tiny gauze in the turbo oil feed pipe becoming blocked and starving the turbo of oil. then it is possible for tiny parts of the turbo impellor to be broken off and sucked into the engine where it can cause damage to pistons and valves.
It is very easy for people just to blame DPF's for everything.
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It's a well known fact that anyone with this engine should remove the turbo gauze filter, it prolongs the life of the turbo considerably.
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It's not just turbo problems with this engine (its not alone either), they have injector seal issues too, resulting in combustion blow by gases leading to carbon build up in oilways, even the sump pick up filter can block, hence the doubly important reason for regular oil changes.
We never had any of this rubbish with idi Diesels with external injectors like spark plugs, any blow by (never experienced it meself) was immediately obvious, and given sensible servicing with some basic driver sympathy idi turbos usually lasted the life of the vehicle.
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You don't think four oil changes in 30,000 miles is enough? Have a Google 1.6 diesel turbo/engine problems. That's what I mean with how are they getting away with it. If it's never regenerated wouldn't the problem have happened sooner?
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Dash it, typed a reply and it vanished, grr.
Some of us don't associate your engine problems with DPF fault, though thats not to say we don't have every sympathy with you.
Indeed after many years, a generation in my case, of happily running Diesels, i've moved completely away (not alone) and would only now touch one if it was an old school idi, or was bought so cheaply that it was bangernomics operation, goes wrong bin it.
Modern Diesels are fine for those who drive vehicles owned by others and for those who buy new and replace when warranty expires, for the used car buyer they are a worsening gamble.
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Modern Diesels are fine for those who drive vehicles owned by others and for those who buy new and replace when warranty expires, for the used car buyer they are a worsening gamble.
It does sound rather like it, having followed this thread with interest. I can only smugly repeat (cautiously) that my 2008 207SW 1,6 diesel has given me no trouble at all for 6 years, maybe because it has no DPF. I have shortened the oil-change interval to 10K and now 8K, and it gets a shot of diesel conditioner now and again, usually when the MoT is imminent.
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I passed a near neighbour (200meters and another road away) busily replacing the turbo (in the road) on a diesel engined Peugeot 207.. with a "good" s/h unit. 7C and rather windy.. Brrr...
Remind me why I will not buy a French car please... :-)
( Judging by the oil drained out, it could do with an oil change...)
Edited by madf on 09/03/2015 at 15:56
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Remind me why I will not buy a French car please... :-)
Are you suggesting that failure was because the car was French, or because it was a diesel, or due to a DPF ?
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Remind me why I will not buy a French car please... :-)
Are you suggesting that failure was because the car was French, or because it was a diesel, or due to a DPF ?
French.
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Visual spectrographic analysis, good skill, should be worth a fortune. Why don't you do it professionally?
Let me guess. The oil was black (turbo diesel). The oil was thick (7 celcius and he was removing the turbo, so I imagine the engine was cold).
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I'm not surprised you feel smug... I would had I not had to pay out £4k on a car worth the same! So, oil changes every 10k miles as suggested... so why?
I agree... never, never again. Think Its also developing the cluster problem with the lights. Great. Problem is I love it. I have chronic pain so the drive, and a long one at that never leaves me in agony like some cars to will have to do some testing to find another with this level of comfort. I'm jealous.
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I guess the thread should have named problems with Diesel 1.6...
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I'm not surprised you feel smug... I would had I not had to pay out £4k on a car worth the same! So, oil changes every 10k miles as suggested... so why?
I agree... never, never again. Think Its also developing the cluster problem with the lights. Great. Problem is I love it. I have chronic pain so the drive, and a long one at that never leaves me in agony like some cars to will have to do some testing to find another with this level of comfort. I'm jealous.
Why did you bother getting it fixed for £4k rather than buying a new one for the same cost and then getting rid of the old one for scrap or sapres/repairs?
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Because when it was taken to the garage it was just the turbo... after replacement of that and the gubbins around it we then realised the engine had failed. I'd already spent £2k with all the labour.. it took days..
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You have evidence for this or is it just plain old fashioned prejudice talking here?
I think it is a predication based on previous behaviour e.g. massive price cut for rich people buying electric cars, huge hikes in car tax, massive subsidies for solar power and so on. Whether or not you agree with these things is not the point, the track record is easy to see.
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