Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 13:40
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - partypetie

Hi everyone.

I am afraid I am reingniting the age old debate of Petrol vs Diesel, although I'm providing a specific set of circumstances to try and aid in the decision-making prcoes.s I'm sure the 'use the b***** search function' brigade will be cursing me now, however I have done a fair bit of research already, but I'm still finding a lot of conflicting opinions which are ultimately making it difficult making the choice, based on my specific set of circumstances.

These are :

- I need a larger estate e.g Passat, Octavia, Mondeo, Mazda 6

- I have about £4700

- The car will be used primarily for a 9 mile motorway trip to the airport and back for work (18 mile total), approx 15 times a month(working a 4 on 4 off shift pattern) and some occasional urban driving on my days off (short distances).

- My driving style is a mixture of conservative and occasionally liking to plant my right foot(if I'm without family or running late for work). I drive at 70-80 on the motorway.

- I reckon I cover no more than 6000k miles a year.

I'm not sure which fuel the distances I cover are best suited to. I have heard some Petrol, as they are relatively short distances, although I heave heard others say that the diesel engine will run better from cold. I also would like power available to me, without having to worry that it's going to cost me a fiver everytime I overtake somebody. If driven the same way, i.e as above with the occasional use of the heavy right foot, is the diesel the best option???

Any (non-offensive) contributuions are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

PW

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 15:14
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - hillman

It will be unpopular but put your money down as a deposit and buy a late model petrol with a bigger engine. The warming up time is so short that you won't notice the difference. I've read somewhere that diesels don't have as effective heaters anyhow, and you need one at this season.

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 16:04
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - madf

6000K miles a year means a new car every month,,,

More seriously, a BIG engined petrool car will average 25mpg tops on your drive - what you can afford will not give a modern efficient one. Can you afford to buy the petril insure and TAX it (£500pa)? Let alone teh repair costs...

If so, a bigger old Hyundai 4x4 or Kia...

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 16:35
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - gordonbennet

petrol, with torque converter automatic box if you want one for that use and mileage, preferably Japanese or Korean, again i ask why didn't Sonata/Magentis come in estate form, would have been ideal solution here.

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 22:53
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - pd

. I've read somewhere that diesels don't have as effective heaters anyhow, and you need one at this season.

Rubbish. A few diesel models are slightly slower to warm up to full temperature than a petrol but all usually chuck some heat out the heater fast enough.

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 16:48
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - Avant

First of all, don't be shy of coming here for advice: it's what forums are for and human input can be helpful in a way that search engines can never be.

As the others have said, go for petrol power. A diesel will cost you more to buy in the first place (whether you buy new or used), and you won't recoup that unless you do high annual mileage. Yours I assume is 6k a year!

Your list looks sensible: try to go for 1.8 or 2.0 engines rather than the 1.6 option which won't be very lively or more economical (as you would have to use a heavier right foot to maintain reasonable progress). You could add the Toyota Avensis estate to the list, but my choice would be between the Mazda 6 2.0 petrol and the Octavia (either the 1.8 or the 2.0 vRS).

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 18:58
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - daveyK_UK

Dear OP,

my best friend is in the exact same situation.

He needs a big estate and only does 6,000 - 9,000 miles per year.

He accepts a petrol is the best option and any MPG over 25 is acceptable

He has £6,000 to spend, slightly more for the right deal.

I have been helping him find the right car.

Before I go any further I would give you one major piece of advice - spend as much time as possible researching the different models that tick the box, the time spent researching and using the advice on this forum will pay for itself.

So far he has had the following test drives (all estate models)

Mondeo 1.6 11 plate (non turbo) - well built, nice interior, plenty of space, but slow. Price wise OK although expecting a further reduction as the new model is set to come out.

Fairly good reliability but not alot of owner reviews to base it on.

Insignia 60 plate 1.8 - nice interior although to many buttons, ok rear space, good value price wise.

Poor reliability from the car (engine seems to be the most reliable part) and some major componenent failures, alot more petrol Insignia owner reviews to base this assessment on.

Accord 08 plate 2.4 - lovely but somewhat cramped interior, slightly less value price wise as Accords seem to be older in this price bracket

good reliability but some age related problem, if it goes wrong its expensive!

skoda fabia 12 plate 1.2 - poor interior although easy to use, slow engine, not really comparing like for like as car is not as big as others, but good value for money

reliability hit and miss, numerous components likely to fail

His next car to try is an Avensis 1.8 and a 508

At the moment he is warming towards a Mondeo altough not a great deal to choose from and dealers are asking for big profit margins (over £1,500 plus margin compared to trade values).

He needs to decide by the end of Feb as his hire car goes back.

Edited by daveyK_UK on 08/02/2015 at 18:59

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 19:17
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - Happy Blue!

From a purely fuel economy perspective, 6,000 miles pa will cost you proabably no more than £250pa in fuel costs. If a petrol car is say £750 cheaper to buy than its diesel counterpart, then you are already better off before worrying about diesel modes of failure.

That said, if you are on a modest budget, buy the newest Japanese or Korean car you can. The Kia Ceed estate is supposedly spacious and comes with a seven year warranty from new.....so if you find a four year old model you have three years warranty remaining.

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Sun 8 Feb 2015 22:49
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - pd

For that money, I'd got for a V70 D5. Find an SE with the winter pack (which is most of them). Big, comfy, fanstastic stero, nice on a cold morning.

£5k should find you a 2005-2006 one with about 90-110k. They're better in manual format.

The diesel is simply better than the petrol to drive, unless it is maybe a T5, which is rare and does 20mpg.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 00:20
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - HectorG

For that money, I'd got for a V70 D5. Find an SE with the winter pack (which is most of them). Big, comfy, fanstastic stero, nice on a cold morning.

£5k should find you a 2005-2006 one with about 90-110k. They're better in manual format.

The diesel is simply better than the petrol to drive, unless it is maybe a T5, which is rare and does 20mpg.

I have to disagree. I had a 55 reg V70 diesel auto. Dreadful car, and I say that having run 240 and 740 estates for 15 years, so I'm not anti Volvo. The D5 auto was ponderous, with terrible lag that was positively dangerous on roundabouts. The 45 aspect ratio tyres caused terrible tram lining and they are not economical - I never achieved better than 33 mpg. You'd get that mpg with a Subaru Legacy 2.5 petrol estate. Nice to drive, bomb proof and great value. The V70 had a great stereo, but is that really why you buy a car?
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Mon 9 Feb 2015 08:56
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - gordonbennet

Interesting about the V70 not being up to scratch.

My son has an 07 plate S60, manual with the 185hp Diesel and it goes like the proverbial scalded cat, feels more like 200+ to be, really shoves you along, averages over 40 to gallon on his mixed route commute and he never ever hangs about.

It would appear the auto saps more power and fuel from the engine, though it's entirely possible the engine in your V70 was the downrated version or something wasn't quite right.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 10:08
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - pd
I have to disagree. I had a 55 reg V70 diesel auto. Dreadful car, and I say that having run 240 and 740 estates for 15 years, so I'm not anti Volvo. The D5 auto was ponderous, with terrible lag that was positively dangerous on roundabouts. The 45 aspect ratio tyres caused terrible tram lining and they are not economical - I never achieved better than 33 mpg. You'd get that mpg with a Subaru Legacy 2.5 petrol estate. Nice to drive, bomb proof and great value. The V70 had a great stereo, but is that really why you buy a car?

I've just been driving an '07 S60 auto D5 this morning. Goes like stink and quick off the line.

As a 55-plate yours should have been a 185 with the 6-speed auto. I'm not saying they are sports cars but they are pretty quick in day to day driving and certainly not "dangerous". 33mpg is also way off the mark even for the 185 version. Should do about 40.

I'd agree they tramline a bit but no worse than the vast majority of cars these days with similar tyres.

Am am mystified and can only think there was something wrong with it to get "dangerous" lag on roundabouts.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 13:30
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - HectorG
It was the auto gearbox that was the problem and the lag was built in to protect the gearbox from the torque of the diesel. I was on very good terms with the service manager at my local dealer, having been a customer for 15 years. He took me to one side one day when I was winging about the car and he said if I had spoken to him rather than sales about the car he would have warned me. He had a lot of unhappy owners of V70 disel autos. Also, 33 mpg was not unusual for the auto - the manuals achieved 40mpg quite easily.

As to tramlining - I have never suffered it quite so badly as the V70 and I have lost count of the number of cars I have owned having been driving for 49 years. I changed the tyres to Toyo Proxes IIRC on the recommendation of the service manager and I have to admit it did improve things. I can't remember what the stock tyres were - they may have been Pirellis, but I could be wrong.

And don't get me started on the turning circle! You could make a u-turn in a 740 estate on a narrow road. V70 alloys on the SE also suffered badly from kerbing. At trade-in time it's the first thing the dealers look at in order to drop the price.
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Mon 9 Feb 2015 14:21
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - hillman

“Petrol, with torque converter automatic box if you want one for that use and mileage (gordonbennet)”

“You'd get that mpg with a Subaru Legacy 2.5 petrol estate. (HectorG)”

Nice to know I’m not alone. My '56 reg. Subaru Legacy-Outback 2.5 litre auto did 26.5 mpg at last count over mixed country roads/suburbs in the hilly part of the Peak District. I’d expect better than on the motorway.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 15:14
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - RT

“Petrol, with torque converter automatic box if you want one for that use and mileage (gordonbennet)”

“You'd get that mpg with a Subaru Legacy 2.5 petrol estate. (HectorG)”

Nice to know I’m not alone. My '56 reg. Subaru Legacy-Outback 2.5 litre auto did 26.5 mpg at last count over mixed country roads/suburbs in the hilly part of the Peak District. I’d expect better than on the motorway.

My '06 Outback 2.5 auto did 27mpg everywhere, urban and motorway runs - still miss it though!

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 15:26
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - gordonbennet

SWMBO's '02 H6 auto Outback does around 20/21mpg driven briskly whatever the terrain, it's running on LPG so fuelling costs about the same as a 35/38mpg car costs.

She's chuffed to bits with it, dumps it anywhere, dogs pile in the back, if it picks up a few parking dings as it has already it just adds to the general patina.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 15:35
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - corax

I seem to remember with the Legacy that the auto is better for economy than the manual.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 16:40
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - pd
! You could make a u-turn in a 740 estate on a narrow road. V70 alloys on the SE also suffered badly from kerbing. At trade-in time it's the first thing the dealers look at in order to drop the price.

I'd agree that the turning circle on the 2000-on Volvos is poor - it is well known. However, comparing a modern front drive car with 17" wheels with a rear drive car with 14 or 15" wheels isn't that fair - none of them will have the turning circle of a 740. That's "progress".

I've genuinely never found the autos that terrible. I prefer the manuals - as I wrote above - as they are more reliable and are more economical. That applies to the petrols as well though.

I've never noticed a lag on the autos - the same auto gearbox is in many cars with as much or more power and torque than a D5 so I can't see why it should be the case.

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 17:07
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - HectorG
Each to their own. The lag problem is why I always go back to petrol. My current '14 Forester XT with CVT is unbelievably quick on the uptake. I'm averaging just under 29 mpg (actual, not OBC) in 1700 miles, mainly short journeys in very cold weather. I've had nearly 40 mpg on motorway at steady 50 to 60. Once run in many users get over 30 mpg in mixed driving. My previous Freelander SD4 auto averaged only 30.2 over 35,000 miles and then the Haldex went at 3 years old.

If you are a fan of lag try a VAG DSG gearbox - diabolical.

Edited by HectorG on 09/02/2015 at 17:10

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Mon 9 Feb 2015 23:29
Larger Estate - Another Petrol v Diesel question! - with specifics - pd

I'd tend to agree that turbo engines (diesel or petrol) combined with a conventional auto can sometimes make an odd combination. The latest 8 speed gearboxes seem to have improved things.

Like it or not, the day when there isn't a single naturally aspirated torque convertor car on sale is rapidly approaching, if it isn't here already.

I can't, in all honesty, ever recall having driven one of any make or combination which I would describe as "dangerous".

I did run a Subaru Legacy a few years back for a year. It was a 54-plate and I'm afraid it was OK but a reliability disaster. Everything went on it including, finally, the headgasket at about 65k. Cost a fortune to fix anything and often took ages to get the parts. It was slow, too (it was a manual).

I've encountered many an older Subaru which were vastly better than the stuff they seemed to end up making.

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