Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - groaver

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/miscellaneous/2013-12/product-claims-to-keep-diesel-particulate-filters-clear/

To the folks in the know on the forum, is this to good to be true or a bit of much needed help?

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - RT

Their website has virtually no references to DPF but a lot of references to Catalytic Converters, which are different.

I couldn't see anything in their claims to suggest it's any different in function to Redex Diesel Injector Cleaner - or indeed Millers Ecoboost apart from the marginal improvement in Cetane number claimed by Millers.

If HJ has carried out independent tests there's no reference to it - but this is just in the news section of HonestJohn, not a product endorsement.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Gibbo_Wirral

Cataclean covered in the past here:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=40874

And this is worth a read:

www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/oncirrus/3/extra/file/Catac...f

I've tried to find where the "UK Emissions Testing Facility, Liverpool" is, but not found it so far.

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 20/12/2013 at 12:31

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - skidpan

For pitties sake when will these bafoons stop trying to sell us more snake oil.

DPF's don't need any help, they just need the right type of journey and they will as designed. Done almost 70,000 miles with a DPF, never had an issue, probably done 25 or more regens in that time.

The best bit about the tests in the Demon Tweeks link is the way they tested for HC's, CO, NOX. A DPF is not designed to remove any of these, it only removes the soot particles, that is why its called a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).

If DPF's needed this snake oil the dealer would be selling it us and insisting on it as part of your warranty.

As they say, "a fool and his money".

Edited by skidpan on 20/12/2013 at 17:01

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Gibbo_Wirral

DPF's don't need any help

So why do Peugeot diesels have an EOLYS additive tank then?

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - RT

Because originally there were two different methods of clearing the DPF of soot, one was the now ubquitous passive/active regen using additional fuel and the other was EOLYS - but like VHS and Betamax video tapes one gets market dominance and the other dies out - nothing to do with technical ability, just market momentum.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - groaver

DPF's don't need any help, they just need the right type of journey and they will as designed. Done almost 70,000 miles with a DPF, never had an issue, probably done 25 or more regens in that time.

The best bit about the tests in the Demon Tweeks link is the way they tested for HC's, CO, NOX. A DPF is not designed to remove any of these, it only removes the soot particles, that is why its called a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).

If DPF's needed this snake oil the dealer would be selling it us and insisting on it as part of your warranty.

As they say, "a fool and his money".

As I said in another thread, I wish motoring sites would stop telling the reader that a diesel model is usually the best model in the range nowadays with no thought to the individual and their driving characteristics/habits.

Edited by groaver on 29/12/2013 at 11:45

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Avant

Absolutely right, Groaver. I'll probably get shot down for this, but I'll stick my neck out and say:

DO buy a diesel if you do 15,000 + miles a year and this is mainly long journeys.

DON'T buy a diesel if:

- your mileage is mainly short journeys

- you are buying a used car which is over, say,3 years old and has done 50,000 + miles

- you are buying purely because you think a diesel will hold its value better

- you are buying purely because you like the extra torque.

With all the three-letter acronyms that can go wrong on modern diesels, the market will someday soon get wind of this, and used values will plummet. And there are plenty of petrol engines that have good low-down pull and increasingly good economy - the 2.0 TSI engine in the Golf GTi and my Octavia vRs for one.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Gibbo_Wirral

You're right. The 90bhp Peugeot diesels are commanding higher prices than their 110 equivalents because of the lack of dual mass flywheel and particulate filter.

As more people visit car forums and read up on owner's evaluations of their potential purchases they're far more informed than they would be from a "professional" car reviewer who's only had the car for a long weekend.

A little research can save you a lot of money and heartache.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - daveyK_UK

You're right. The 90bhp Peugeot diesels are commanding higher prices than their 110 equivalents because of the lack of dual mass flywheel and particulate filter.

As more people visit car forums and read up on owner's evaluations of their potential purchases they're far more informed than they would be from a "professional" car reviewer who's only had the car for a long weekend.

A little research can save you a lot of money and heartache.

I thought the only difference between the 1.6 peugeot/citroen diesel in 75bhp, 90bhp and 110 bhp was the ECU settings and possibly the turbos? Please correct me if I am wrong.
Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - gordonbennet

. I'll probably get shot down for this, but I'll stick my neck out and say:

And there are plenty of petrol engines that have good low-down pull and increasingly good economy - the 2.0 TSI engine in the Golf GTi and my Octavia vRs for one.

Absolutely spot on Avant, 15 or more years ago Diesel was the default choice, simple reliable torquey economical and very reliable and durable for years on end no matter how it was driven...provided it was serviced well.

Nowadays your list of approximates is about as good as it gets, unless you happen to be a company car driver when the problems won't hit you in the pocket and CO2 levels is all that counts.

Meself i've gone the other way and given up Diesel completely due to the complexity and cost of fuel, its LPG converted larger petrol engines for me for the forseeable, with hybrid a possible next move, i usually buy good used cars (not just the cheapest) and run them for many years though.

Isn't it odd that Diesels have become the default choice as they've got progressively more complicated.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Collos25

According to radio 4 today an article involving a commercial operator and the RAC seemed to think it was mostly a winter thing and was caused by the increase from 3% to 7% of bio diesel but the RAC put it into pespective when they said only 01% of call outs were due to a these faults.Whether you believe them is another thing.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - alan1302

According to radio 4 today an article involving a commercial operator and the RAC seemed to think it was mostly a winter thing and was caused by the increase from 3% to 7% of bio diesel but the RAC put it into pespective when they said only 01% of call outs were due to a these faults.Whether you believe them is another thing.

Any reason not to belive them?

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Collos25

One party makes additives and the other makes its it living from vehicles breaking down with the customer kept in the dark.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - alan1302

One party makes additives and the other makes its it living from vehicles breaking down with the customer kept in the dark.

The RAC doesn’t make it’s money from breakdowns – it makes money from cars that don’t break down. It’s the customers that use the service that take the money out and the ones that’ don’t use it that put the money in – just like insurance companies.

So no reason for the RAC to lie.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Collos25

I am not saying they do lie,but if cars did not break down there would be no need for such companies think about it.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - alan1302

I am not saying they do lie,but if cars did not break down there would be no need for such companies think about it.

Cars are always going to breakdown - I can't see any reason in this instance for the RAC not to be telling the truth on the matter. And I can't see the RAC making the figures lower than they actually are.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Collos25

Lighten up, of course cars are always going to break down as said originaly make your own mind up do not write stupid posts with hypethetical questions.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - alan1302

Lighten up, of course cars are always going to break down as said originaly make your own mind up do not write stupid posts with hypethetical questions.

What hypothetical question? I can't see that I have posted a question.

Just wondered why you don't trust the RAC figures.

And I have made my own mind and and belive what they RAC have said as as I have said I don't think there is any reason not to believe them.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Avant

Don't let this interesting discussion descend into an argument about the RAC. Obviously like any form of insurance they wouldn't be there if there were no claims / callouts - but, again like any insurance business, their income comes mainly from subscriptions / premiums, and claims / callouts are their main expenditure.

Coming back to GB's post, I often wonder why LPG hadn't become more popular. Those like GB who use it find it works well. But there seems to be a vicious circle between lack of users / lack of filling stations.

I can see diesel being replaced as the main alternative to petrol within the next 10-15 years, but whether it'll be by LPG. fuel cells, cheaper hybrids, or whatever I wouldn't like to speculate. Maybe a breed of more efficient petrol engines will keep us ging till fuell cell technology is more advanced.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - RT

Coming back to GB's post, I often wonder why LPG hadn't become more popular. Those like GB who use it find it works well. But there seems to be a vicious circle between lack of users / lack of filling stations.

I can see diesel being replaced as the main alternative to petrol within the next 10-15 years, but whether it'll be by LPG. fuel cells, cheaper hybrids, or whatever I wouldn't like to speculate. Maybe a breed of more efficient petrol engines will keep us ging till fuell cell technology is more advanced.

The take-up of LPG on "ordinary" cars has been barely above zero even when offered as a regular production option, as Vauxhall and a few others did for a while. Most of the enthusiasm for LPG has come from those converting gas-guzzling V8's, etc into something they can afford to run.

Petrol engines do seem to be making a comeback with much better efficiency but only by including many of the high-tech gizmo's like diesels have had to.

Petrol and diesel are both good materials for "energy portability" - the amount of energy stored per kilo - when battery technology gets that good and fuel cells get that cheap we'll all have interesting choices to make.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - daveyK_UK
Of all manufacturers who sell in the UK,
suprisingly Proton still do a LPG production version of one of its cars and its neither a gas guller or v8 (think it list prices around £10k and sells for around £9k?).

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - RT
Of all manufacturers who sell in the UK, suprisingly Proton still do a LPG production version of one of its cars and its neither a gas guller or v8 (think it list prices around £10k and sells for around £9k?).

My point was that factory-fit LPG models are shunned by buyers - Proton only sold 208 cars of all types in the UK in 2012.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Collos25

Lighten up, of course cars are always going to break down as said originaly make your own mind up do not write stupid posts with hypethetical questions.

What hypothetical question? I can't see that I have posted a question.

Just wondered why you don't trust the RAC figures.

And I have made my own mind and and belive what they RAC have said as as I have said I don't think there is any reason not to believe them.

How can you comment either way about anybody in the program you did not listen to it.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - alan1302

How can you comment either way about anybody in the program you did not listen to it.

I think it's pretty simple. I don't believe the RAC as an organisation are into making up figures and leiing about what they say. Weatehr or not I listened to the programme has no bearing on that.

I don't think you are stupid so I'll assume you'll understand that you don't have to have listed to a programme to make your mind up if they are talking rubbish. Especially when you posted what they had said.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - galileo

According to radio 4 today an article involving a commercial operator and the RAC seemed to think it was mostly a winter thing and was caused by the increase from 3% to 7% of bio diesel but the RAC put it into pespective when they said only 01% of call outs were due to a these faults.Whether you believe them is another thing.

Any reason not to belive them?

The RAC is an expensive breakdown service, so probably its customers are fairly affluent and running fairly new cars. Breakdown statistics from Green Flag and other cheaper providers might be more representative of 'out of warranty' reliability.

Unfortunately only RAC and AA have the ability to conveniently collect and analyse data from callouts, as the other providers mainly use independent local garages

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - RT

The RAC is an expensive breakdown service, so probably its customers are fairly affluent and running fairly new cars. Breakdown statistics from Green Flag and other cheaper providers might be more representative of 'out of warranty' reliability.

Unfortunately only RAC and AA have the ability to conveniently collect and analyse data from callouts, as the other providers mainly use independent local garages

The other providers still have their calls handled centrally and contractors have to give details otherwise they don't get paid.

All the breakdown organisations will often simply recover the vehicle to a franchised dealer - more so for AA & RAC who handle a lot of manufacturers warranty breakdown services.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - skidpan

The RAC is an expensive breakdown service, so probably its customers are fairly affluent and running fairly new cars.

We have full RAC cover for 3 cars and its cheap, one policy covers all the cars for £70 a year for everything except European Cover, no need for it since we do not go abroad. But we do not but it from the RAC, we buy it from Aviva. One of our cars is 21 years old, hardly new. I work part time and the wife is retired, not what you would call affluent.

Edited by Avant on 01/01/2014 at 11:41

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - corax

I have RAC cover, I run a 9 year old car, and I'm not affluent.

I've only needed them once around '92 when the distributor condenser failed on my Mk2 Escort. But the time that I decide I don't need breakdown cover will be the time when I break down in the middle of nowhere.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - Ordovices

I buy my RAC cover with Tesco club card vouchers, very good value I think.

But the time that I decide I don't need breakdown cover will be the time when I break down in the middle of nowhere.

Or East Anglia as we call it :)

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - RT

I got a year's "free" RAC cover with my Hyundai's warranty - on the way to the dealers to have an ongoing immobiliser problem fixed, it became permanently immobilised. When I called the RAC they advised a 4-hour wait because I wasn't a priority - and even then would only send a RAC patrol to confirm my diagnosis, already confirmed over the phone by the dealer, and only then would the RAC patrol organise a flatbed, entailing another unspecified delay - 4wd automatics can't be towed, either on 4 wheels or suspended lift.

As it happens, I'd kept my Green Flag cover going as well so called them - after gentle interrogation to verify my diagnosis they sent a flatbed directly which was here in 25 minutes.

I had a similar delay issue with the AA when my last Vauxhall was under warranty.

As well as breakdown, my Green Flag covers recovery after accidents so no more dealing with repairers 100s of miles away but driver illness as well.

I do seriously wonder why anyone uses the AA or RAC.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - gordonbennet
As well as breakdown, my Green Flag covers recovery after accidents so no more dealing with repairers 100s of miles away but driver illness as well.

Similar common sense full service from Autohome Northampton, a small independant recovery company, but not cheap, i've finally cancelled and gone AutoAid, how they fare if needed i hope not to discover.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - skidpan

May last year my BMW acted very oddly as I pulled off the drive. No acceleration and lots of smoke from OS front wheel. Stopped immediately and parked it up and went to Yorkshire in the wifes car, no time to mess about diagnosing fault.

Got back about 4.30 in the afternoon and spotted strait away it was a broken spring that had jammed between the strut and tyre. Rang RAC and explained issue and they agreed to send a flat bed since there was no way it was a road side fix. Man at local BMW idependant agreed to wait until 6.00 pm, after that it was park it outside. RAC turned up withing 30 minutes (not bad for a Friday rush hour call) and took me and the car to the garage well before 6.00 pm.

10 out of 10 for the RAC.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - harryletterman

Hi there groaver, I don't think this is possible as there is no prove of its actually working or being helpful.

Product Claims to Keep Diesel Particulate Filters - groaver

This lot are the worst for failing to inform:

tinyurl.com/oe4yrc2

Absolutely nothing about dpfs and the way modern diesels need to be used.

I particularly like this bit:

"Going for the diesel version of the Mazda 6 is a no-brainer, however. Even though the 2.2D 163 costs £1100 more than its petrol equivalent, it starts to repay you at the pump after 40,279 miles. Its lower depreciation and road tax figures also mean that the diesel version is £1191 cheaper than the petrol over three years."

* Remember to factor the costs of a new engine as well.