By the way - I wasn't complaining about being held up for a few moments - my initial thought was for the safety of the cyclist - if it were me I would not want to go through the experience of being slowly followed by an HGV until he/she could over take me.

Can only say how i do this, i don't crowd the cyclist i keep back and i keep the vehicles revs reasonably low in order to reassure them i'm not in any way antagonistic or threatening, in fact at the lowest revs possible for the gear i need to use to start the overtake, its also polite.

Fair point from you though, some lorry drivers seem to make a heavy meal of this, and some, possibly without realising they are doing so, make the rider feel uncomfortable, the worse (thankfully few and far between) push by revving up and then braking with exaggerated movements which is harrassment in my book.

Part of competent overtaking is being the correct distance from the object you wish to overtake especially if you have low power to weight, so i hang well back until the right situation presents and by accelerating a few seconds before needed i have gained those few extra mph in hand, then i pass as wide as i possibly can and avoid any form of cutting in...very often the experienced cyclist will have seen the same overtaking opportunity develop and will often 'assist' as the lorry engine note changes.

Often get a wave of thanks..which is not expected as i'm only doing what any driver should do...or after a few hundred yards the rider might spot a handy path or other wider section he can ride along for a few moments without losing speed whilst i go by, in which case he gets a gentle pip and wave of thanks from me.

Its all part of getting along with each other, much nicer than the alternative.

Edited by gordonbennet on 12/11/2013 at 21:42

By the way - I wasn't complaining about being held up for a few moments - my initial thought was for the safety of the cyclist - if it were me I would not want to go through the experience of being slowly followed by an HGV until he/she could over take me.

And there a bright shaft of light is shone into the debate.

If the HGV is following slowly the experienced/skilled cyclist knows he's been seen and acknowledged. It's then easy to facilitate the overtake once it's safe for example by pulling into a gateway or lay-by and to position yourself to keep visible and share control of the situation until that point.

Much better that than the clown who zooms past and pulls in before his trailer is fully clear.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 12/11/2013 at 21:55

Wacky,

If it came over as patronising I apologise.

In a way your second para makes my point though. There is at least anecdotal evidence of a decline in skills/standards. I've no doubt migrant drivers play a part in that. Gordonbennet makes some telling points in this thread too about how drivers have no permanent record of their accident etc history and even those with a truly egregious past can find employment. Dennis P u t z, a driver jailed for the tip/skip crushing of Catriona Patel is a case in point.

PAt Nicholson, who writes in the other place, is an accredited LCV CPD provider and mentions delivering sessions on safety around vulnerable road users.

I profoundly disagree with your final sentence. Of course vulnerable road users have a responsibility not to deliberately put themselves in danger. Just using a busy road is NOT putting yourself in danger. Probably not at all and certainly to nowhere near the culpability required to be 'responsible' for an accident.

The overall responsibiility is shared. Those in command of vehicles, particularly large vehicles, have an equal or greater reponsibility to take care.

Well said, GB!

+1, exactly as I'd suspect from a knight of the road.

I know that Bromp, thats why i shoved the smiley on, just had to slip it in as it were to let others know we're not all numbskulls..;)

We generally agree on such things when we've had similar discussions.

As i've said so many times before, until a HGV or PSV drivers insurance accident record is automatically linked to their tacho digi card and/or licence then the poor will continue as they do as potential employers are hiring blind, unfortunately far too many are hiring on the cheap in the belief its good economics.

You'd think by now also that insurers would have taken steps to make sure they're not innocently underwriting the road menace...the useless tend to do their normal thing leaving a trail of destruction in their wake then move on to the next job, and on it goes, unless some brave victim previous employer actually lets another potential employer know they're about to recruit a half wit (with all the financial and career risks telling the truth carries these days), this siutation goes on almost forever until the menace eventually does something so bad the Traffic Commisioner finally gets involved, too late when some poor blighter's lying crushed under the wheels.

Edited by gordonbennet on 11/11/2013 at 21:38

Why are cyclists allowed on dual carriageways with a 70 mph limit when they are not allowed on motorways, some of which are two-lane, which also have a 70 mph limit?

Because these sort of roads are an anomaly. It's not just that cyclists are allowed, they also have flat junctions with minor roads and interfaces with pedestrains, including crossins. The A50 round Uttoxeter is one example, the A5 Shrewsbury by pass by pass is another. There may be cycle lanes but they're probably il surfaced and poorly integrated at junctions.

The CO of RAF Northolt was killed in analagous circumstances on the A40 a few years ago. In that case it was low setting sun that allowed an inateenntive van driver to rear end him but similar issue with lack of profile/visbility.

I used the same road quite often in the mid eighties, escaping Harrow for the joys of Friday nights at Jordans or Lee Gate Youth Hostels. Usually a few of us so some safety in numbers but it was a relief to get west of Denham Roundabout where most of the motor traffic went off onto the M40. There was an alternative route through unclassified roads via Harefield but that had the alternative hazard of unpredictable cars 'rallying' country lanes and, unless you knew it well, it required regualr stops/map checks.

Even with modern ights and hi-viz I'd be pretty chary about either these days.

Im not against cyclists as I used to cycle to work when I lived close enough to do so I also wore a hi viz vest had front and rear lights. And this involved a 50mph duel carriageway the amount of cyclists id see in the dark with no light on this unlit road is astonishing but but luckily so far iv not seen a accident. Especially as there are so many uninsured unlicensed driver's in the are who dont have a clue about the highway coad.

I have been sitting in my lorry waitong to turn right and have been flashed to go but have had to stop as there has been a cyclist or motorcycle who have come up the inside and not been paying attention. Lucky forvthem I always look out for them as I dont want the grief of dealing with the police or insurance company because they did something stupid. Its the same as when they come up the inside as im turning left.

QED!

Do you work from a script?

If you're wating for me to join a few verses of "we hate the cylists 'coz they're in front" then you're in hell+freezover terrritory.

Sorry.

Very profound. My Latin is only partially up to it I'm afraid.

'The same old song'. Obviously I'm not the only one who finds threads about cyclists boring. Trouble is, I have to read them in case they generate personal insults which need to be censored.

The majority of road users are sensible and considerate. But there is a minority of idiots who may be on four wheels, two wheels or two feet. That's really all that needs to be said about it.

Ben and A3/4 both seem to think that repeatedly shouting 'cyclists are dangerous/selfish' consitutes evidence. I've tried to introduce some examples of the factors that drive cyclist behaviour - particularly why some avoid so called 'facilities' and use main roads instead.

It's a little distrubing a mod finds what are essentially debates about road safety boring.