help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Dovile

hi.

...err...HELP?!

my friend went to see a pre-registered '13' plate car on 20/4/13. he liked it so much that he arranged for all the checks at a nearby internet cafe when still in the area and had a mechanic friend look around it, and thus paid in full for the car on that day, by debitcard. this pre-registered car was at the time registered in the name of a member of staff of the dealership (accounts department manager apparently....not that this matters much), instead of the dealership itself - apparently this is a way to get around the need for the dealer to hold the car for 3 months before being able to sell it away....?

he's got all these invoices + a recepit confirming he paid for the car (reg number + vin number, etc). however my friend was informed that the vsc/2 (section 10) 'new owner supplement' would be delivered along with the scheduled car delivery to his address on 23/4/13. this supplement did not come on the day the car was delivered to his home - instead there was handwritten message on the company paper saying that they still wait to receive it from the previous owner, and will forward to him as soon as they receive.

he called the dealer who sold him the car soon after he took delivery of it and they told him that they sent the log book to dvla - however when my friend asked specifically for the new owner supplement the dealer says that they again said that they did not yet receive from the staff who the car was registered to.

since 23/4/13 date my friend has had to keep this, his first car, stored away in the garage and not been able to use it even once - ofcourse his insurance cover, which was started on 23/4/13 with the expectation that he'd at least hold the new owner supplement slip when he go tthe car, is on the basis that the car is registered in the main driver's name (him). he called the dvla on 29/4/13 to see if at least his name is attached to the car's registration plate on their database but still it is not (though ofcourse they didnt specify who was due to personal data protections).

QUESTION TIME:

1) likelihood that the dealer is lying about sending anything off to dvla in the first place?

2) likelihood that dealer is witholding the slip deliberately?

3) likelihood that the dealer sent the entire logbook by mistake (ie, with the new registered owner slip my friend should have still attached)?

4) what my friend can do? new questions he should ask dealer to get what he needs in order to be able to drive the car legitimately?

5) any grounds for him to complain or demand something/everything back from the selling dealer?

more questions i shall post here as soon as i think of them. understandably my friend is disappointed - paid fully for car insurance already, which is not particularly inexpensive cost, etc., so any suggestions would be appreciated..... i never have experienced problem like this before so cannot suggest to him at the risk of giving him misinformation which might make situation more difficult.....

thank you.

Edited by Dovile on 29/04/2013 at 20:16

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - daveyjp
1) high
2) high
3) low
4) You can apply for a new V5C, but it costs £25 and takes time
5) plenty of grounds to complain as he can't drive the car.

If this is a main dealer complain to dealer principal (probably in on it, but give him a chance) and to HQ. It is also worth contacting the manufacturer directly and advise them one of their dealers has a ruse to overcome the illegality of holding onto the V5C for a few weeks.
help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Simon
Just drive the car as normal, you don't need the new keeper slip as such. It will turn up sooner or later, you are worrying over nothing!
help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - daveyjp
Simon, every day is a school day.

Read this:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/legal--motoring-advice/2.../

The new keeper is doing the right thing, especially if they have declared themselves as being the registered keeper to the insurance co when it appears they aren't.
help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - jc2

Tell him to contact the police;sounds like FRAUD!

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Bromptonaut

So it's a pre registered car sold through a dealer franchised for the marque and previously used by one of its staff for 6 weeks or so?

The House of Cars case involved an internet broker registering cars to a more or less fictitious company. Presumably this was to circumvent controls on fleet sales used by the mfr to protect its retail franchises. It was a trading standards issue over the misleading of customers. The issue was the brokers failure to be open about the risk purchasers were put to vis a vis (a) DVLA regs and (b) insurance.

As such the facts appear different to this case where, on the face of it, there's a failure to process paperwork correctly.

While conspiracy or fraud cannot be ruled out co*k up is much more likley. I wonder if the account manager has been 'let go' and is playing silly wotsits. More worryingly of course the dealer could have a cash flow problem and having trouble with its banking arrangements.

In circs of OP's friend I'd be letting my insurer what was happeneing and getting in toucch with DVLA while also getting assertive with dealer, including an unltimate deterrent prospect of putting the debit Card payment into dispute.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 30/04/2013 at 15:05

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - thunderbird

If the company are in financial dificulties and they owe money to a finace company on the car you will loose it if they default on payments. That is one of the risks of buying pre-reg cars along with the insurance and other legal issues.

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Dovile

hello.

yes, pre-registered car sold through franchised dealer, car was registered last few days of march 2013, meaning that the car was 3 weeks registered age when my friend saw the car and paid for it.

from what he understands it was not even used by the staff member it was registered to - afterall the car had 10 miles on the clock when he went to see it (so just the shake-down miles every car goes through to check all is working), and the only mileage put on the car since then was the circa 15-mile drive by them to deliver the car to my friend's house. car now has been stationary in the garage since the day he receive the car, 23/4/13.

the only positive he has been able to draw from this time the car is in the garage is the protection from the recent rain and of any bird poops landing on the shiny paintwork (lots of trees where he lives........). it's a city car,bought with the intention to use it (occasionally - but regularity of use is irrelevant, he paid for a car to use, damnit). it's not an exotic supercar bought as an investment or an ornament!

i have recommend to him to chase up dealer tomorrow to ask the following:

*if + when v5c was actually mailed to dvla - and if not, why not

*if + when new owner supplement has been obtained from previous 'owner' and sent to my friend's adddress (remember - previous owner is somebody working in the same building as where the sale took place!). again, if not, why not, as it is something they are obligated to provide. and when will it be reaching him.

*anything negative with the respsonse above, ask for name + contact details of managements (both of dealership overall and sales manager).

i'm thinking there should be one or two things more he should ask, but as i say before, i do not want to make suggestions which he will follow, only for dealer to make anything more difficult or awkward - any ideas? for example if it was me i have the courage to ask for something like a set of interior carpets for the car to make up for inconvenience as seller knows that he is supposed to provide supplement at the moment of sale - especially as there is no thirdparty involved, with previous 'owner' being someone in-house!

thank you for all responses so far.

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Dovile

GOOD NEWS UPDATE: the section 10 came in his mail today. slip dated for 23/4/13, though there was compliments message slip in the envelope with it dated 30/4/13..... and says to wait up to 2 weeks for the new v5c.

yeeeaaayyy.

in the meantime he probably still wont take the car out driving (because of what is on his insurance - he says he follows exactly and until dvla have him as registered owner he won't risk it), but at least with this v5c/2 the car is to starting to feel like his a little bit more.

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - skidpan

If he has the section 10 there is absolutely nothing to stop him using the car. Whilst it does not prove 100% that the dealer has sent the V5 to the DVLA it sure as hell proves that he has title to the car now.

When you buy a brand new unregistered car you do not get the V5 for a few weeks and only have the invoice to prove its your car. But do you leave a new car in the garage until the V5 arrives, of course not, you have bought the thing therefore you use it.

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Armitage Shanks {p}

I bought a 2nd hand car from a franchised Ford dealer last month and the V5 took three weeks to arrive.

help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - Simon
I still think that it is much ado about nothing, even with that subjective legal ruling. I bought my Focus ST170 as a brand new pre reg from a Ford dealer and had no issues whatsoever. I even dared drive it home when I picked it up!!!
help for a friend - no v5c or v5c/2 with new pre-reg car - reflector

Was interested to hear this discussion as I recently bought a new car. Have been driving it around since I took delivery in May but when the V5 arrived this week it shows the car was indeed first registered by the dealer on the day I bought it ... but to the dealer, not me. It was only 3 weeks later that the dealer registered it to me. So not only am I now the 2nd owner of my 'new' car but also I appear to have been driving illegally and possibly with invalid insurance, as I declared it was new and that I was the registered owner when taking out the policy.

The dealer is making very little of this, insisting this is common practice and that there is no loss of value. Does anyone have a view?