Gone are the days of suspension lubrication, engine tuning, valve clearance adjustment, belt tension checking and possibly tightening, distributor lubrication and replacement of oil and spark plugs at short intervals
That's because cars don't have grease points any longer (last I had was a Triumph Herald), they have engine management that is self adjusting, many have hydraulic followers (but cars such as the 1.8 engine the Focus that used shims did not need adjusting during our 12 years of ownership), belts have automatic adjusters, no distributors and spark plugs are normally recommended at 4 years.
Oil still needs doing but instead of 3,000 miles like my Anglia's most cars on fixed servicing (like our Pulsar and Fabia) require it every year or 10,000 miles. Last car I looked at with short service intervals was a Subaru in 1998, service every 6 months or 6,000 miles, total each year was about £400, walked away, fast. Bought a Focus, seem to remember that the 9 or 10 services we had on it (over 10 years) cost little more that 3 years servicing on a Subaru.
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Gone are the days of suspension lubrication, engine tuning, valve clearance adjustment, belt tension checking and possibly tightening, distributor lubrication and replacement of oil and spark plugs at short intervals
That's because cars don't have grease points any longer (last I had was a Triumph Herald), they have engine management that is self adjusting, many have hydraulic followers (but cars such as the 1.8 engine the Focus that used shims did not need adjusting during our 12 years of ownership), belts have automatic adjusters, no distributors and spark plugs are normally recommended at 4 years.
Oil still needs doing but instead of 3,000 miles like my Anglia's most cars on fixed servicing (like our Pulsar and Fabia) require it every year or 10,000 miles. Last car I looked at with short service intervals was a Subaru in 1998, service every 6 months or 6,000 miles, total each year was about £400, walked away, fast. Bought a Focus, seem to remember that the 9 or 10 services we had on it (over 10 years) cost little more that 3 years servicing on a Subaru.
I switched from a Vauxhall Astra to a Subaru Outback - headline service costs may be eye-wateringly different but real-world servicing & repair costs were the same as nothing went wrong on the Subaru.
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Oil still needs doing but instead of 3,000 miles like my Anglia's most cars on fixed servicing ...... require it every year or 10,000 miles.
Oh dear - I see the wasteful anachronistic dogma of oil change after 365 days whatever the mileage still persists in some quarters. IM(and at last many other's)HO, a pensioner doing only 5,000 gentle miles a year doesn't need to change the oil annually. It will still be oily even after several years. My TR7 has had only three oil changes this century and still works fine, as the engine has never gone more than the advised 6,000 miles between changes.
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Changing the oil and filter once a year is not dogma but good risk management. I will happily pay £20-50 pa (DIY or garage) for a reduction in the risk of early engine failure.
Using mileage, not time, as justification based upon a single experience of a lightly used 30+ year old car is an irrelevance.
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Using mileage, not time, as justification based upon a single experience of a lightly used 30+ year old car is an irrelevance.
I suppose it may be a mistake to rekindle this particular discussion, but the '12 months or 10K miles whichever comes first' is a worthwhile rule to cover the wide range of usage vehicles are put to. Very occasional longish journeys, and heavy daily stop-start driving, are completely different regimes which need their own appropriate servicing. Intelligent users adopt an approach which they find economical and effective.
Nuff said ?
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I switched from a Vauxhall Astra to a Subaru Outback - headline service costs may be eye-wateringly different but real-world servicing & repair costs were the same as nothing went wrong on the Subaru.
That may be true but in our case we had no expensive failures on the Ford in 12 years. Other than the annual services the only items replaced were an alternator belt (£30 fitted), one pair of front discs, 3 sets of front pads and one set of rear pads (all DIY). The Subaru may not have needed an alternator belt but I cannot see how it would not have used pads and discs and there is no way they would have been cheaper than those for the Focus. The bills a work colleague used to get for his wifes low miles Scooby would have made my head explode.
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Changing the oil and filter once a year is not dogma but good risk management. I will happily pay £20-50 pa (DIY or garage) for a reduction in the risk of early engine failure.
Using mileage, not time, as justification based upon a single experience of a lightly used 30+ year old car is an irrelevance.
Not if you have a lightly used 30+ year old car.
A lot of my personal scepticism is based on the manufacturers motor oil shelf life recommendations, which range from a believable "infinite" to an incredible "1 year".
If they are capable of transparent t*** of that magnitude, general credibility is compromised.
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My TR7 has had only three oil changes this century and still works fine
I think you forget that the TR7 engine was almost bullet proof and could take rough oil, where a new engine wouldn`t tolerate that type of abuse yours can so its daft comparing yours with new !
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I think you forget that the TR7 engine was almost bullet proof and could take rough oil, where a new engine wouldn`t tolerate that type of abuse yours can so its daft comparing yours with new !
Found this on a specialist TR7 website
The engine’s timing chain should be replaced at 25,000 miles intervals, or sooner if the car only covers small annual mileages.
That does not sound like a bullet proof engine does it. When was Johnf's last done?
Edited by thunderbird on 23/12/2021 at 16:35
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I think you forget that the TR7 engine was almost bullet proof and could take rough oil, where a new engine wouldn`t tolerate that type of abuse yours can so its daft comparing yours with new !
Found this on a specialist TR7 website
The engine’s timing chain should be replaced at 25,000 miles intervals, or sooner if the car only covers small annual mileages.
That does not sound like a bullet proof engine does it. When was Johnf's last done?
No idea, but I never heard of one snapping only noisy and rough running which indicated chain to be replaced, doesnt mean it was a bad engine
There were cam belt changes on some engines at 30k but as long as it was sorted the engine could last years but then depends on your definition of bullet proof
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Triumph TR7s were launched badly built. There were a slew or warranty claims.
classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/triumph/tr7tr8/b.../
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Triumph TR7s were launched badly built. There were a slew or warranty claims.
classics.honestjohn.co.uk/reviews/triumph/tr7tr8/b.../
Yes I know the car itself was a nightmare, but I was talking about the engine not the rest of the car, but there was the odd ones that were reasonably good and pretty much like now, some bought it because they liked it, not worried about its faults.
I put one in a triumph Dolomite out of a scrap TR7, just had to change the engine backplate as it was twisted when removed, but the engine didn`t last long as the oil pump failed at 70mph on the A21, we couldn`t get another TR7 engine as they were very popular at the time for racing so the dolly was scrapped
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I think you forget that the TR7 engine was almost bullet proof and could take rough oil, where a new engine wouldn`t tolerate that type of abuse yours can so its daft comparing yours with new !
Found this on a specialist TR7 website
The engine’s timing chain should be replaced at 25,000 miles intervals, or sooner if the car only covers small annual mileages.
That does not sound like a bullet proof engine does it. When was Johnf's last done?
Never. I suspect the specialist was looking for work. Although it recommends absurdly frequent work, e.g. changing the brake fluid every eighteen months, the maintenance section of the handbook makes no mention of a chain change. And the Haynes manual only recommends change of inspection shows signs of wear.
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My TR7 has had only three oil changes this century and still works fine
I think you forget that the TR7 engine was almost bullet proof and could take rough oil, where a new engine wouldn`t tolerate that type of abuse yours can so its daft comparing yours with new !
Admittedly my 2005 Audi engine is not particularly new, but it still runs fine after only two oil changes in the past eight years. (It has been averaging only three thousand miles a year)
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Oil still needs doing but instead of 3,000 miles like my Anglia's most cars on fixed servicing ...... require it every year or 10,000 miles.
Oh dear - I see the wasteful anachronistic dogma of oil change after 365 days whatever the mileage still persists in some quarters. IM(and at last many other's)HO, a pensioner doing only 5,000 gentle miles a year doesn't need to change the oil annually. It will still be oily even after several years. My TR7 has had only three oil changes this century and still works fine, as the engine has never gone more than the advised 6,000 miles between changes.
Not really fair to refer to a manufacturers recommendation as "wasteful anachronistic dogma". Better to refer to it as, say, "wasteful anachronistic ass-covering manufacturers recommendation".
I share your disbelief in the latter, based on first principles and the extreme shininess of my engine internals after 6 years on the same oil, but you can't really expect most people to reject what it says in the handbook, especially with a new car where it may be a warranty condition.
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especially with a new car where it may be a warranty condition.
There is no MAY, if you don't follow the manufacturers service schedule you will have no warranty.
And quite right too. Why should a person who neglects their car get free repairs like a person who looks after theirs correctly.
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especially with a new car where it may be a warranty condition.
There is no MAY, if you don't follow the manufacturers service schedule you will have no warranty.
And quite right too. Why should a person who neglects their car get free repairs like a person who looks after theirs correctly.
Fair enough. Bad choice of word. "apparently/I believe/I'm told/I understand/according to the reports of people who buy new cars, not that I know anyone like that personally, but I have no reason to disbelieve them" would have all been more accurate alternatives.
Edited by edlithgow on 27/12/2021 at 14:30
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All servicing is preventative. It is done to minimise the probability of failure in the future.
For cars under warranty it makes very good sense as it will be a condition of the warranty that it is serviced - preferably by a main dealer.
As cars age it is up to the owner who will be wholly responsible for the consequences and costs of failure.
For cars valued at several £k servicing at an independent probably makes sense - the cost is small relative to the cost of a major failure made more likely by a lack of servicing.
Get into banger (<£1k) territory - repair as things fail rather than service may seem attractive. Get lucky and you may have a few years service cost free motoring - unlucky and said banger is a write off. Not for me - but a personal judgement.
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Is it possible to do the service yourself?
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Is it possible to do the service yourself?
Depends on the car, but mostly on your competence and level of equipment. With most 21st-century cars it's hard to do more than check the oil level. I gave up doing most jobs long ago as makers made things more complex and inaccessible.
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Is it possible to do the service yourself?
During the warranty period it's in all manufacturers T & C's that servicing is carried out by a VAT registered garage if you don't use a brand dealer.
Service it yourself and no warranty.
Your choice, its yours to do with as you please.
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Is it possible to do the service yourself?
Yes. All the handbooks I've had (admittedly very few) advise what checks are needed, and it requires very little skill to change the oil and, usually much more infrequently, the brake fluid. After three years old, the MoT test covers much of what is checked at a 'service' and will advise when anything needs repair or replacement, e.g. suspension joints, which will fail an MoT long before they rattle alarmingly, let alone fail.
Depends on the car, but mostly on your competence and level of equipment. With most 21st-century cars it's hard to do more than check the oil level.
We have two 21st century cars, and it's easy to check the levels of the other fluids and the condition of the tyres and windscreen wipers. It's also just as easy to oil the door hinges, add any oil and fill the screen washer reservoir.
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<< We have two 21st century cars, and it's easy to check the levels of the other fluids and the condition of the tyres and windscreen wipers. It's also just as easy to oil the door hinges, add any oil and fill the screen washer reservoir. >>
John, I don't consider doing any of those things as 'more than checking the oil level', rather a bit less than. Most of it is just weekly looking after a car - which I accept many people may forget about. I don't regard it as 'servicing', tho I also accept that some garages may charge for doing little more than that.
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<< We have two 21st century cars, and it's easy to check the levels of the other fluids and the condition of the tyres and windscreen wipers. It's also just as easy to oil the door hinges, add any oil and fill the screen washer reservoir. >>
John, I don't consider doing any of those things as 'more than checking the oil level', rather a bit less than. Most of it is just weekly looking after a car - which I accept many people may forget about. I don't regard it as 'servicing', tho I also accept that some garages may charge for doing little more than that.
Aye, and there's the rub. That's why I choose not to pay umpteen pounds per hour for 'those things', e.g. checking the lights work etc.
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<< We have two 21st century cars, and it's easy to check the levels of the other fluids and the condition of the tyres and windscreen wipers. It's also just as easy to oil the door hinges, add any oil and fill the screen washer reservoir. >>
John, I don't consider doing any of those things as 'more than checking the oil level', rather a bit less than. Most of it is just weekly looking after a car - which I accept many people may forget about. I don't regard it as 'servicing', tho I also accept that some garages may charge for doing little more than that.
Aye, and there's the rub. That's why I choose not to pay umpteen pounds per hour for 'those things', e.g. checking the lights work etc.
.....and thanks to your misguided penny pinching your Peugeot no longer has a warranty!
constantly referring to the little maintenance your triumph and Audi get bears little resemblance to what a car that that get used regularly needs, in my opinion your advice is dangerous.
Happy New year...
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<< We have two 21st century cars, and it's easy to check the levels of the other fluids and the condition of the tyres and windscreen wipers. It's also just as easy to oil the door hinges, add any oil and fill the screen washer reservoir. >>
John, I don't consider doing any of those things as 'more than checking the oil level', rather a bit less than. Most of it is just weekly looking after a car - which I accept many people may forget about. I don't regard it as 'servicing', tho I also accept that some garages may charge for doing little more than that.
Aye, and there's the rub. That's why I choose not to pay umpteen pounds per hour for 'those things', e.g. checking the lights work etc.
.....and thanks to your misguided penny pinching your Peugeot no longer has a warranty!
constantly referring to the little maintenance your triumph and Audi get bears little resemblance to what a car that that get used regularly needs, in my opinion your advice is dangerous.
Happy New year...
Happy New Year Hyperbole
Not changing the brake fluid could be dangerous, but I didn't notice that being advocated. Mine had possibly never been changed in 30 years when the brakes failed, and it was dealer-maintained by the previous owners.
But thats Daihatsu Taiwan. I dunno if such a thing could happen in The Yook.
Very hard to see how an oil change delayed by disregarding the implausible 1 year time "rule" (the main specific point of contention in this thread) could be dangerous.
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Aye, and there's the rub. That's why I choose not to pay umpteen pounds per hour for 'those things', e.g. checking the lights work etc.
.....and thanks to your misguided penny pinching your Peugeot no longer has a warranty!
Not 'misguided'- I make my own thoughtful decisions. I'll let you know if I have a bill exceeding the price of the 'service' in the next ten months. And for 'penny pinching', please read 'thrifty'. This allows more money for the enjoyable extravagances of life, one of which includes my gas-guzzling A8!
constantly referring to the little maintenance your triumph and Audi get bears little resemblance to what a car that that get used regularly needs
Our cars receive careful maintenance - when necessary. That is how they last such a long time. Advances in manufacturing and materials have resulted in the 'regular needs' of modern cars being very few.
, in my opinion your advice is dangerous.
You are very welcome to your opinion, but as a matter of fact I never 'advise' any poster to do, or not do, anything. I merely say what I would, or would not do, and quite often, the reasons why. I argue against unscientific dogma, often originating from and disseminated by those with a self interest of its translation into unnecessary expensive work.
Happy New year...
And a Happy and hopefully inexpensive motoring New Year to you too!
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The test duplicating items checked when a full service is done at the same time is another issue of confusion for the consumer. Quite frankly-I think an MOT and a short service is the thing to go for first-then decide from any advisories and your own common sense what else needs attention or ignoring.
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I done 2 years course at college for motor vehicle ima level 2 and this has proven to be very useful, car maintenance.
When i got my yaris a deisel 15 plate first thing i did were replaced the filters fuel filter aur filter, and pollen filter. The fuel filter was a time consuming job as when replacing the fuel filter indications were they werent changed, filter was charcoal black.
Same with the other filters despite service book stamped, filters cost were £21, all done diy.
This would be a full service, i would leave the oil service with the garage as that a messy job, and time consuming, as diy means u have to dispose the oil to your local waste recyclist.
Other aspects of tthe car like brakes i can do them myself, just last week i replaced the number plate bulb cost £1 diy 1 min to do..
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I done 2 years course at college for motor vehicle ima level 2 and this has proven to be very useful, car maintenance.
When i got my yaris a deisel 15 plate first thing i did were replaced the filters fuel filter aur filter, and pollen filter. The fuel filter was a time consuming job as when replacing the fuel filter indications were they werent changed, filter was charcoal black.
Same with the other filters despite service book stamped, filters cost were £21, all done diy.
This would be a full service, i would leave the oil service with the garage as that a messy job, and time consuming, as diy means u have to dispose the oil to your local waste recyclist.
Other aspects of tthe car like brakes i can do them myself, just last week i replaced the number plate bulb cost £1 diy 1 min to do..
Useful skills to have and you can earn some money on the side helping out friends, family or whoever.
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Useful skills to have and you can earn some money on the side helping out friends, family or whoever.
Even better if they use a good diagnostics scanner and know how to use it, our cheapest local garage charge £80 to diagnose a problem, another way to make good money apart from the repairs
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Useful skills to have and you can earn some money on the side helping out friends, family or whoever.
Even better if they use a good diagnostics scanner and know how to use it, our cheapest local garage charge £80 to diagnose a problem, another way to make good money apart from the repairs
I got a well paid job i dont charge family or freinds as for me the practical experience is reward enough yes a scanner is worth it.. best one is the one that burns the dpf for u
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Car warranty is must. we don't know what will happen in the future one we go out with our car. car is dream to many of us. we should maintain in proper way.
we should have car warranty once we have our own car.
I recently bought my dream car and I haven taken car warranty service from deleted
Now, I am free from all the worries
Edited by Xileno on 06/01/2022 at 14:17
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Car warranty is must.
No it isn't. It's a thinly disguised insurance policy, the premium of which is built into the price paid for the car and the price of its subsequent obligatory services.
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Car warranty is must.
No it isn't. It's a thinly disguised insurance policy, the premium of which is built into the price paid for the car and the price of its subsequent obligatory services.
Don't bother responding to spammers.
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