EVs - barney100

Just been reading many comments on EVs. One Leaf owner is getting '60 miles in summer, less in winter' 'Will any EV tow my caravan to Cornwall?' 'Price far too high' 'Lithium mines exploiting children' 'Live in a flat or house without a drive, how will I charge the car?' 'range never a problem' 'NE to Brighton regular trip, how would an EV cope with that?' 'three kids and a dog, need to spend big time to get an EV big enough' 'Battery capacity goes relentlessly down.' Most comments are negative re EVs. These are comments which reflect the concerns of many people. Price, range and charging issues are seemingly the main issues.

EVs - skidpan

Just been reading many comments on EVs. One Leaf owner is getting '60 miles in summer, less in winter'

ICE cars have less range in winter. But at least its easy to fill one up.

'Will any EV tow my caravan to Cornwall?'

Download some specs off the old internet, some will, some won't. But if you live more than a couple of hundred miles away you would need a charge and will your site have charging facilities?

'Price far too high'

If its too expensive don't buy one.

'Lithium mines exploiting children'

Very likely but how many people who are involved in the supply of raw material for ICE cars are being expolited? We don't live in a perfect world. If it worries you that much buy a horse.

Live in a flat or house without a drive, how will I charge the car?'

Local supermarket, work, filling station. its not easy but getting better.

'range never a problem' 'NE to Brighton regular trip, how would an EV cope with that?'

You would need regular stops to charge, plan the route.

'three kids and a dog, need to spend big time to get an EV big enough'

You have answered it yourself. Spend your time researching.

'Battery capacity goes relentlessly down.'

Capacity will go down but it seems its probably not as bad a some fear.

Most comments are negative re EVs. These are comments which reflect the concerns of many people. Price, range and charging issues are seemingly the main issues.

New technology always has its detractors but soon becomes mainstream. Main obstacle is the number of places to charge for us on the route to Scotland and whilst we are there, that is why we bought the PHEV.

EVs - badbusdriver

We have all read and heard this before. Is there an actual new question here or could we just resurrect one of the many existing previous threads discussing the pros and cons of EV's?.

EVs - Terry W

There are a number of stereotypical opinions on EVs:

  • unambiguously negative - not enough range, no charging facilities, unproven tech, expensive, won't tow my caravan, batteries fail and cost ££££ to replace etc etc
  • it won't be any good for me, but good for some - what about my european holiday, live miles from a recharging point, 300 mile round trip to see MiL each week etc
  • environmentally questionable so I won't buy one - lithium mining, battery recycling, not enough generating capacity
  • brilliant idea - cost 2p a mile, what's not to like

My take on EVs - AT PRESENT:

  • the environmental benefits are questionable if you only do a low mileage - a lot of total pollution is in making the car.
  • good for 2nd car if you don't mind spending £20k on a new one. But not worth it either environmentally or financially for less than 5k pa. May consider as s/h in a couple of years.
  • not as a main car - like to spend winter in Spain, and fairly frequent 400m round trip in UK to vsit family. Range and charging time would be an issue.

But technology does not stand still - in a few years time the view will change.

EVs - barney100

Did explain that these comments are quotes and do not reflect the view s of the poster.

EVs - badbusdriver

Did explain that these comments are quotes and do not reflect the view s of the poster.

Yes, but you started the thread. Maybe if you said why, seeing as we have seen all these issues voiced before?.

EVs - Andrew-T

<< ICE cars have less range in winter. But at least its easy to fill one up. >>

I suspect EVs will suffer more. ICE cars can at least use 'waste heat' which would otherwise exit from the radiator. An EV can only drain the battery, which clearly reduces its range.

EVs - Terry W

I suspect EVs will suffer more. ICE cars can at least use 'waste heat' which would otherwise exit from the radiator. An EV can only drain the battery, which clearly reduces its range.

This is precisely the problem with an ICE - 65-75% of the energy in the fuel tank goes to warm up the surrounding atmosphere rather than moving the vehicle. Without all these energy/heat losses the ICE would literally melt!

EVs - mcb100
There’s no denying that a BEV has shorter range in winter than in summer, but that can be mitigated by preconditioning the car whilst plugged into the mains, then using heated seats rather than the car’s heat pumps, and also by preconditioning the battery, again whilst plugged in.
Using an app, the battery can be heated to improve efficiency before before unplugging.
EVs - sammy1

There’s no denying that a BEV has shorter range in winter than in summer, but that can be mitigated by preconditioning the car whilst plugged into the mains, then using heated seats rather than the car’s heat pumps, and also by preconditioning the battery, again whilst plugged in.
Using an app, the battery can be heated to improve efficiency before before unplugging.

Fancy waking up on a cold winter morning and the above is whizzing through your mind. I cannot be convinced that at the moment an EV is a sensible buy for many

When heat pumps replace your central heating I guess you will be rushing out to get in your EV and its heated seats!

EVs - Rerepo

A friend of mine has a ten year old Leaf. Its done about 40k. Range is down to about 30 miles. Luckily his commute is 5 miles each way.

EVs - Bolt

I cannot be convinced that at the moment an EV is a sensible buy for many

I don`t think most people are, although they are becoming more popular, mostly for those that do little mileage, imo, most just want to jump in a car, go from A-B and fill up whenever they get low on fuel, not have to worry about heating and charging the car every day they go out

I hope Hydrogen will get on better as I would prefer that! see what happens in the future, as mentioned tech is improving every day in all fields!

EVs - movilogo

Any EV bought today will be like a 5 year old smartphone after 5 years. It will still work but technology will move so much that newer models will be twice better at same price.

At present EV does not solve any problem but gives rise to many problems which are non-issue for ICE cars.

Environmental arguments are debatable. Instead of buying EV I can contribute to environment by doing more WFH hence less travel.

EVs - Bolt

Any EV bought today will be like a 5 year old smartphone after 5 years. It will still work but technology will move so much that newer models will be twice better at same price.

If they become like a smart phone, chances are they will not be repairable and if certain parts are, they will be expensive to repair with few techs around able to fix them.

with parts becoming smaller with less power needed to do the job, I suspect as with microchips, as they are now, being unrepairable, cars will become throw away or maybe refurbed to resell after replacing bad electrics

EVs - Andrew-T

with parts becoming smaller with less power needed to do the job, I suspect as with microchips, as they are now, being unrepairable, cars will become throw away or maybe refurbed to resell after replacing bad electrics

So much for the environment then, if those unrepairable cars get crushed and reburied in a different place. At least the batteries will be reused ?

EVs - Sofa Spud

I cannot be convinced that at the moment an EV is a sensible buy for many

I don`t think most people are, although they are becoming more popular, mostly for those that do little mileage, imo, most just want to jump in a car, go from A-B and fill up whenever they get low on fuel, not have to worry about heating and charging the car every day they go out

I hope Hydrogen will get on better as I would prefer that! see what happens in the future, as mentioned tech is improving every day in all fields!

A hydrogen powered car is an EV! It just uses a fuel cell device to chemically produce electricity from hydrogen stored in on-board tanks instead of using a battery. Internal combustion engines have been run on hydrogen but that seems like a dead-end, except perhaps as a conversion for older cars - provided you can find somewhere to put the storage tanks, that is!

Edited by Sofa Spud on 08/04/2021 at 13:36

EVs - Bolt

Internal combustion engines have been run on hydrogen but that seems like a dead-end

I was talking about EVs, if Hydrogen is going to be used on anything it will be Diesel HGVs not on petrol cars, though its less efficient, but Hydrogen powered EV-HGVs they are I gather being worked on

Hydrogen power EVs I suspect will gradually take off, and more Hydrogen stations will be built across the country, and as mentioned it will take time, but imo better having Hydrogen stations than lines of electric points everywhere.

imo almost as bad as wind farms, though a new type is being worked on which could see them stacked and all together produce much more power than is at the moment

EVs - mcb100
‘Fancy waking up on a cold winter morning and the above is whizzing through your mind.’

No need. If you leave home at the same time every morning, you just programme it via an app to warm up 30 minutes before you’re due to leave home. Whilst neighbours are pouring kettles of water on frozen windscreens, your EV is defrosted and a nice 21 degrees inside.
Otherwise, hit a button on your phone whilst eating your Corn Flakes and hey presto, as above.
EVs - Andrew-T
If you leave home at the same time every morning, you just program it via an app to warm up 30 minutes before you’re due to leave home. Whilst neighbours are pouring kettles of water on frozen windscreens, your EV is defrosted and a nice 21 degrees inside. Otherwise, hit a button on your phone whilst eating your Corn Flakes and hey presto, as above.

When everything gets that computerised there will be no need for you to go anywhere, so no need for that vehicle either. At least not for the daily commute.

EVs - Wee Willie Winkie

"When everything gets that computerised there will be no need for you to go anywhere, so no need for that vehicle either. At least not for the daily commute"

It already is that computerised. I can do everything described, very easily.

EVs - expat

'Lithium mines exploiting children' '

Most lithium comes from Australia, Argentina and Chile. Those are not countries where children are exploited. Australian miners earn huge wages and the jobs are highly sought after.

EVs - barney100

'Lithium mines exploiting children' '

Most lithium comes from Australia, Argentina and Chile. Those are not countries where children are exploited. Australian miners earn huge wages and the jobs are highly sought after.

'Lithium mines exploiting children' '

Most lithium comes from Australia, Argentina and Chile. Those are not countries where children are exploited. Australian miners earn huge wages and the jobs are highly sought after.

Biggest lithium mine is in Mexico.

EVs - alan1302

'Lithium mines exploiting children' '

Most lithium comes from Australia, Argentina and Chile. Those are not countries where children are exploited. Australian miners earn huge wages and the jobs are highly sought after.

'Lithium mines exploiting children' '

Most lithium comes from Australia, Argentina and Chile. Those are not countries where children are exploited. Australian miners earn huge wages and the jobs are highly sought after.

Biggest lithium mine is in Mexico.

There aren't any lithium mines in Mexico - at least not at the momet...one is coming but won't start producing for a few years.

EVs - mcb100
‘It already is that computerised. I can do everything described, very easily.’

Exactly so. I sat through a training course yesterday on the new Mokka-e, and that’s how it works. That’s a mainstream B segment SUV, not a six figure premium machine.
EVs - Andrew-T
‘It already is that computerised. I can do everything described, very easily.’
Exactly so. I sat through a training course yesterday on the new Mokka-e, and that’s how it works. That’s a mainstream B segment SUV, not a six figure premium machine.

I thought we were suggesting that the car would become unnecessary because computerisation would remove the need to go to work ? Not whether anyone could make the computerised car go.

EVs - Wee Willie Winkie

Ah. In that case I misunderstood.

EVs - mcb100
OK, misunderstanding of your comment, but the fact remains it is already that user friendly (computerised), and we still need, or would like to go places.
EVs - sammy1

A new environment "problem" was reported on the TV news today. The mining of metals and minerals from the OCEAN floor. Not content with the damage caused to the Earths surface big business is going after the riches in the worlds seas and it is a shortage of the elements required for EVs that will drive this. This alone cannot be good for the planet and all in the cause of trying to mitigate climate change, I don't think !