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Dot 3 is still available here, you can however mix dot 4 with 3, dot 4 and dot 5 contain borate ester that increases there boiling point..
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I daresay DOT 4 would/will be OK, but for my purposes DOT 3 is better, because:-
Its specified. I don't mind deviating from spec if think I have a reason to, but I do mind deviating from spec if I think I have a reason not to.
It is less hygroscopic than DOT 4.
Water absorption limits the life of brake fluid in service and storage, and is a particular issue here because the average humidity is very high.
It is more viscous than DOT 4. This implies that it will be a better lubricant, which is likely to be relevant on the old and neglected systems I deal with.
Its about 2/3 the price. This isn't a very big deal, but I deal with systems that have been "maintained" by Taiwanese, and thus need extensive flushing, so it adds up.
I understand that the lower viscosity of DOT4 is supposed to allow some ABS and traction control systems to cycle rapidly. I of course don't have ABS or traction control systems on the Skywing. I THINK the free Honda Accord, which I may still end up looking after, probably has ABS but Honda specified DOT3 with no option for it, so they presumably didn't think DOT4 offered any advantage in this case.
The higher DOT4 wet and dry boiling points are of negligable relevance to me since I don't race
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It is more viscous than DOT 4. This implies that it will be a better lubricant, which is likely to be relevant on the old and neglected systems I deal with.
Sorry, Ed - I'm wondering why more viscous brake fluid is a benefit ? Are you thinking about leaks ? What is being lubricated ?
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It is more viscous than DOT 4. This implies that it will be a better lubricant, which is likely to be relevant on the old and neglected systems I deal with.
Sorry, Ed - I'm wondering why more viscous brake fluid is a benefit ? Are you thinking about leaks ? What is being lubricated ?
Er, anything internal to the system that moves. Mostly pistons in bores and rubber seals. I suppose there might be a minor reduction in leakage due to viscosity too but I doubt thats very significant.
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It is more viscous than DOT 4. This implies that it will be a better lubricant, which is likely to be relevant on the old and neglected systems I deal with.
Sorry, Ed - I'm wondering why more viscous brake fluid is a benefit ? Are you thinking about leaks ? What is being lubricated ?
Er, anything internal to the system that moves. Mostly pistons in bores and rubber seals. I suppose there might be a minor reduction in leakage due to viscosity too but I doubt thats very significant.
Liquids are traditionally incompressible, but I would have thought viscosity might perhaps affect the response time of the system, and relaxation time on releasing the pedal. Again, only marginal ?
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It is more viscous than DOT 4. This implies that it will be a better lubricant, which is likely to be relevant on the old and neglected systems I deal with.
Sorry, Ed - I'm wondering why more viscous brake fluid is a benefit ? Are you thinking about leaks ? What is being lubricated ?
Er, anything internal to the system that moves. Mostly pistons in bores and rubber seals. I suppose there might be a minor reduction in leakage due to viscosity too but I doubt thats very significant.
Liquids are traditionally incompressible, but I would have thought viscosity might perhaps affect the response time of the system, and relaxation time on releasing the pedal. Again, only marginal ?
I'd think marginal to the point of being undetectable by Vertexes finest instrumentation. In a trad braking system the fluid displacement is tiny so viscous drag seems unlikely to be an issue.
If I crash due to slow braking its likely to be down to my slow NCV due to polyneuropathy, and poor lubrication in my arthritic knee joints rather than the brake fluids fault.
ABS and traction control systems with pumps and such, maybe. Dunno much about them, never having had them.
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"since there is no Taiwanese DIY"
Can you expand on that please? Are the Taiwanese so minted that they can't be bothered to do any car DIY or is it officially discouraged?
An engineering culture in Taiwan must exist as a lot of high quality engineering kit is made there and is quite highly regarded here in GB. Vertex brand stuff etc.
I typed out an outline of a Masters Thesis on this, enlivened with personal anecdotes, vivid cross cultural illustrations, and insightful socio-economic analysis, then it all disappeared. Cannot believe I'm STILL doing that.
Short version: There isn't any because mechanics are cheap and manual work is looked down on by the better healed segment of the population. This produces a culture of kak-handedness.
Though this is partly down to Chinese Culture, I'd speculate it isn't so very different from what is happening elsewhere. The Taiwanese are just a bit ahead of the curve.
Edited by edlithgow on 05/08/2020 at 12:11
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Ed, my mate who owns and runs an independent garage with his brother often tells me horror stories of customers whose three years old cars are towed in seized with no oil in the sump.
Customer says "there was a little picture of an oil can on the dash, did that mean something?"
Cars arrive for MOT with bald or underinflated tyres, lights not working, wiper blades in shreds.
You would not believe how ignorant many otherwise highly educated people are about elementary features of car mechanics here. The exceptions tend to be the older generation, though not all of them are well clued up.
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You would not believe how ignorant many otherwise highly educated people are about elementary features of car mechanics here. The exceptions tend to be the older generation, though not all of them are well clued up.
Yeh, I knew a girl in the UK who referred to me as an OA.
Stands for Oily Anachronism, though its probably not an accident that its also the first 2 letters of OAP.
She could be a bit of a sarky cow.
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Replying to my own post here:-
Vertex Machinery and Tools
Vertex Machinery established in 1978 is based out of Taiwan and is known for The Best High Precision Machinery, Milling Machine Accessories, and NC/CNC Machine Tool Accessories. Founder and CEO of Vertex, Steve Huang, established the company in a small factory in the 1970’s and it has grown to be one of the biggest trading companies in Taiwan. Their product line includes the best Milling Vises, Rotary Tables, Punch Formers, Indexing Spacers, Radius and Angle Dressers, Punch Grinders, Toolmakers Vises, Wheel Balance Stands, Universal Dividing Heads and Vertical Slotting Heads. Vertex Machinery is a complete total solution for many of your Metalworking needs. Many companies in the same category as Vertex have their tools manufactured in China. This is not the case with Vertex. Their best Machine Tools are only manufactured in Taiwan. The difference is definitely noticeable. Taiwan has been known to manufacture tools that are better in quality than tools made in China. There always is a premium on Tools and Machinery that come out of Taiwan. It is known for producing tools better and Vertex Machinery insists that everything with the Vertex name on it is still Made in Taiwan. Vertex offers attractive prices and the best quality to serve its loyal customer base throughout the world. Anything produced must pass strict inspection. They are ISO 9001 Certified and Tools are made with tolerance within ±0.01 per 100mm. Also, their tools have a 1 year warranty. Penn Tool Co., is one of the few select companies in the United States that supplies the best Vertex Tools and Machinery. We are sure you will be satisfied with the workmanship of the Vertex brand of tools. They are dedicated to customer satisfaction. Their motto is “Cooperative-Accuracy-Responsibility-Speed.”
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Well, yeh.
But they would say that, wouldn't they?
Taiwan does make some good stuff, though you can't always find stuff they export available for sale here. I'll look out for it..
This isn't really incompatible with a lack of maintenance though, and certainly not incompatible with a lack of DIY maintenance, which was the context.
That wee compressor I recently sort-of revived is perhaps illustrative. I got someone in the academic office to translate an email to the manufacturer and got a reponse in Chinese which I'm told says essentially "We know nothing, but we can send an engineer" (Unclear if they'd charge for this, or why I would want one of thier gineers if they know nothing).
The machine seemed well made but the assumption seemed to be that it would be thrown away rather than repaired, and it clearly hadn't been maintained.
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That wee compressor I recently sort-of revived is perhaps illustrative. I got someone in the academic office to translate an email to the manufacturer and got a reponse in Chinese which I'm told says essentially "We know nothing, but we can send an engineer" (Unclear if they'd charge for this, or why I would want one of thier gineers if they know nothing). .
Bit more on this (OT but this threads all over the place anyway).
"Since the compressor seems somehow fixed in your hands, let's just wait and see how the company responds. The customer service lady didn't know how to do with your questions, so she asked for help from her boss, Director Ou. I replied to Mr. Ou and directly let him know that we concern about the consultant fee if they send somebody to come. If it's free, of course, we will gladly accept their kindness! "
(I corrected the last bit since I didn't really want even a free engineer)
So Customer Service is firmly in suits and skirts territory, (as are, of course, Sales) and, faced with some simple technical questions, the ""escalation parh" isn't a direct enquiry to engineering (heaven forfend) who could perhaps just have, like, answered them, but to a senior suit.
The senior suit doesn't relay the questions to engineering because he doesn't do detail. That's for underlings. (He may also want to charge out the engineer, of course)
He'll will, however, send an engineer, who will arrive quite unecessarily in the dark about what he's there for.
Too much negative bias? Maybe so, but I've been that engineer, when I worked for a US-based multinational, and so I dont think this malaise (which is what I think it is) is restricted to Taiwan, though they are perhaps culturally primed for it.
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