Zip merge? That'll be the day... | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Fri 15 Feb 2019 12:54

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Bilboman

www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving-1/2019-02/almost.../

No chance of changing the "I say, are you in the queue?" mindset, unfortunately. IMHO the offence of driving without due care and attention should be extended to selfish use of road space. Longer than necessary queues hold people up, preventing some drivers from reaching a subsequent turnoff and add to general frustration and cantankerousness.
The modern English obsession with queuing and "knowing one's place" seems to stem from wartime rationing, according to this article: www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23087024 ; that plus the boom in car ownership and increasingly congested roads from the 60s onwards (Dr Beeching may have had something to do with that, methinks.)
Unless there are two ramrod straight, equal length, queues of cars in perfect parallel formation, a lot of drivers simply will not let another driver in if there's the slightest chance that someone might gain "unfair" advantage and a half second lead over someone who has been queuing patiently for at least three minutes.
I was once severely tooted at for the apparently unpardonable sin of letting two cars in front instead of just the one. It was obviously my solemn duty to let one car in and then use my car to block the second car, forcing him to beg for a space behind me.
Only in England...

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 15:03

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Andrew-T

... the boom in car ownership and increasingly congested roads from the 60s onwards (Dr Beeching may have had something to do with that, methinks.)

I think the infamous Beeching cuts were a consequence of increasing car ownership, not their cause. People find it much more convenient to have transport within 10 yards of their front door, which takes them to within 10 yards of their destination (usually). Except in big cities or for long journeys, other public transport is going the same way as the trains.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 15:38

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - NARU

There's a roundabout on the edge of Bracknell which flows much more freely since it has a 'merge in turn' sign fitted.

Unfortunately people don't read the highway code, or have any further training once they pass their test.

Highway code Rule 134

You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 16:26

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - concrete

It is always a dilemma. Did the driver approaching on the outside and overtaking standing traffic do so to deliberately gain an advantage or was he genuinely caught out by the queue? There is some of both in it. Some drivers will willingly drive over the top of anyone to gain a car length advantage. It is usually easy to see if someone is caught out by the queue because they look to signal and merge in as soon as they realise, the other less courteous drivers will then drive to the point they cannot go any further then try and merge in. Quite rude in terms of behaviour. I believe we should follow the same rules for queueing traffic as for queueing people. In other words don't push in or try to take the urine. The only reason a queue is stop-start is because of merging traffic anyway.

Cheers Concrete

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 16:40

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - NARU

It is always a dilemma. Did the driver approaching on the outside and overtaking standing traffic do so to deliberately gain an advantage or was he genuinely caught out by the queue?...

Those questions are the root of the problem. Instead of the queue mentality we should be adopting the zip-merge mentality, and aiming to use both lanes right up to the merge point.

We can then merge nice and calmly at the merge point, as the highway code recommends

As I said above, it worked wonders at a roundabout in bracknell - and halved transit times through there.

Edited by NARU on 16/02/2019 at 16:41

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 19:38

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Leif

About a year ago in Basingstoke I exited a roundabout onto lane two of a dual carriageway. I noticed a line of cars on the left but carried on then saw the road constricting to one lane. So I slowed and tried to merge, but the other drivers in lane one were very aggressive. Stupid. Lane one traffic had tailed back to the roundabout and was blocking it. If they had used both lanes and merged, the roundabout would not have been blocked. I do like our ability to queue in an orderly manner, but in this case a bit more common sense is called for.

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Fri 15 Feb 2019 23:53

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - barney100

On Jersey they have a filter in turn on roundabouts which works a treat and keeps things moving. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it. However the queue barging is infuriating but it's human nature and there's little anyone can do about it.

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 09:57

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Andrew-T

On Jersey they have a filter in turn on roundabouts which works a treat and keeps things moving.

Guernsey too.

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 16:18

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - concrete

I put most of the queue problem down to poor signage and lack of enforcement. The signage should be abundantly clear as far back as a mile, that the road is restricted and which lane/lanes is blocked. That way there is no real excuse for driving blithely past the queue to the pinch point and causing mayhem by barging in. It annoys me when on motorways especially, because the restriction is signed at 800 yards( I would make it a mile at least). I would also make it law that if any driver who was still not trying to merge as far back as 400 yards from the pinch point then he would be prosecuted vigorously and fined heavily. I would also prosecute drivers who refuse to allow merging before the 400 yard mark. That would stop the BMW brigade( you know who you are) from playing their tricks and getting one over on more observant drivers. It is common sense and good manners and the queue will gently flow along, instead of the stop start fiasco. Unfortunately the overhead gantry signs are so discredited because of their unreliable or out of date information, nobody now takes them seriously. Pity really, a good idea and way of communicating with drivers completely undermined by poor execution and management. Oh to be in charge of that particular department!!!!

Cheers Concrete

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 16:44

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - NARU

... the queue will gently flow along, instead of the stop start fiasco. ...

Zip-merge is free flowing. Lots of other countries do it without drama.

It only becomes stop start when drivers start fighting - some trying to follow the zip-merge method. Some trying to follow the queue method.

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 17:28

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Leif

I put most of the queue problem down to poor signage and lack of enforcement. The signage should be abundantly clear as far back as a mile, that the road is restricted and which lane/lanes is blocked. That way there is no real excuse for driving blithely past the queue to the pinch point and causing mayhem by barging in. It annoys me when on motorways especially, because the restriction is signed at 800 yards( I would make it a mile at least). I would also make it law that if any driver who was still not trying to merge as far back as 400 yards from the pinch point then he would be prosecuted vigorously and fined heavily. I would also prosecute drivers who refuse to allow merging before the 400 yard mark. That would stop the BMW brigade( you know who you are) from playing their tricks and getting one over on more observant drivers. It is common sense and good manners and the queue will gently flow along, instead of the stop start fiasco. Unfortunately the overhead gantry signs are so discredited because of their unreliable or out of date information, nobody now takes them seriously. Pity really, a good idea and way of communicating with drivers completely undermined by poor execution and management. Oh to be in charge of that particular department!!!!

Cheers Concrete

You are suggesting everyone use lane one for a mile or so which is absurd. If everyone just used both lanes and merged in turn when the lane closed, everything would be fine. No one would be able to ‘push in’ and traffic would make progress.

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Sat 16 Feb 2019 20:44

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Bilboman

With a bit of planning, a "shared priority" system might work: There are a couple of places near where I live (at the start and the end of a 4 lane motorway going over a very high bridge, with a 50 mph limit - and speed cameras aplenty) where two of the lanes approaching the bridge from different points merge into one lane over a couple of hundred metres. There's one warning sign and then it's up to drivers - who should be able to see each other perfectly! - to merge; with no lane having perceived priority over the other at any point (part of the problem in Britain IMHO) drivers know that if there's a bump it'll be both drivers' fault.
Instead of closing one of the lanes on a motorway, simply reducing the speed, then gradually reducing the width of both lanes - a few USE BOTH LANES signs and MERGE IN TURN with 100m left to go - and removing lane markings completely, drivers would just have to work it out.

Edited by Bilboman on 16/02/2019 at 20:45

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Wed 21 May 2025 15:52

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - John F

.....and about time too. The pathetically inadequate (should be a three lane M-way) A14 near J16 has been reduced to one lane in both directions for long periods of time. Signs clearly say 'USE BOTH LANES' and 'MERGE IN TURN' with a diagram of black blobs zip- merging. Yet so many seem happy to wait in a long queue while cars zoom down past them till the bollards force them to zip merge - as instructed. Do some people actually enjoy being delayed? Or are they unable to understand the process?

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Wed 21 May 2025 16:27

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Terry W

Stress/anger experienced by "inside laners" arises as they are typically overtaken by those on the outside lane. They are perceived to be "pushing in" and not waiting their "turn".

Different signs won't work - they have no effect at the moment. Prosecutions for "non-zippers" - unlikely.

The only method I have seen which can work - HGVs in the outside lane moving in time with the inside lane. Effectively a 20 ton + roadblock. This is nothing new - it is the equivalent of slow speed HGV "elephant racing"!!

Inside lane motorists would happily make space for public spirited HGVs and allow them to re-enter the traffic flow as the merge approached.

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Wed 21 May 2025 18:07

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Adampr

Stress/anger experienced by "inside laners" arises as they are typically overtaken by those on the outside lane. They are perceived to be "pushing in" and not waiting their "turn".

Different signs won't work - they have no effect at the moment. Prosecutions for "non-zippers" - unlikely.

The only method I have seen which can work - HGVs in the outside lane moving in time with the inside lane. Effectively a 20 ton + roadblock. This is nothing new - it is the equivalent of slow speed HGV "elephant racing"!!

Inside lane motorists would happily make space for public spirited HGVs and allow them to re-enter the traffic flow as the merge approached.

Inside lane motorists wouldn't be happy to make space for public spirited HGVs as they're not even willing to make space for cars that have had the basic common sense to use both lanes.

The most effective method I have found for dealing with this situation is having an old beaten-up car and inviting the queue fetishists to crash into it if they're not willing to let me in at the merge point.

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Thu 22 May 2025 17:01

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Andrew-T

Inside lane motorists would happily make space for public spirited HGVs and allow them to re-enter the traffic flow as the merge approached.

A similarly irritating situation is being in a tailback in the slow lane, intending to leave at the slip-road which starts just 100 yards ahead, but being prevented from using the hard shoulder by a self-appointed traffic controller in the car in front. :-(

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Thu 22 May 2025 10:30

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - davecooper

.....and about time too. The pathetically inadequate (should be a three lane M-way) A14 near J16 has been reduced to one lane in both directions for long periods of time. Signs clearly say 'USE BOTH LANES' and 'MERGE IN TURN' with a diagram of black blobs zip- merging. Yet so many seem happy to wait in a long queue while cars zoom down past them till the bollards force them to zip merge - as instructed. Do some people actually enjoy being delayed? Or are they unable to understand the process?

Yes, not zip merging holds everyone up, including those that try to merge at the pinch point. So instead of flowing through at say 40mph, everyone trickles through at 10mph at best. Merging should ideally be done well in advance of the restriction while traffic is still an normal speed.

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Thu 22 May 2025 15:32

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Terry W

Perhaps there is a role for legislation - create an "offence" zone 400m before the merge point.

Could be operated automatically by camera. This would encourage zip merging well before the pinch point - risk a fine if you don't. Traffic at the pinch point would then move at an optimal speed.

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Thu 22 May 2025 15:40

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - bathtub tom

Perhaps there is a role for legislation - create an "offence" zone 400m before the merge point.

Could be operated automatically by camera. This would encourage zip merging well before the pinch point - risk a fine if you don't. Traffic at the pinch point would then move at an optimal speed.

Yeah, like 'lane blocking'. When has that been enforced? I just undertake, seemingly like an increasing number of drivers.

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Thu 22 May 2025 16:00

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Adampr

Perhaps there is a role for legislation - create an "offence" zone 400m before the merge point.

Could be operated automatically by camera. This would encourage zip merging well before the pinch point - risk a fine if you don't. Traffic at the pinch point would then move at an optimal speed.

All that would do is needlessly sterilise 400m of road that could be used by cars. The problem is not caused by people driving to the merge point (as required by the Highway Code) it's caused by the other people refusing to let them merge because they think they should have merged earlier.

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Thu 22 May 2025 16:26

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - daveyjp

Take control of the situation.

If I'm aware the driver behind is keeping very close to me to prevent cars zip merging I increase the gap in front of me and wave cars through so they are then in front of me.

Once I've let 2-3 vehicles join in front the driver behind gets the message about how much of an i**** they have been,

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Thu 22 May 2025 18:47

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - badbusdriver

Take control of the situation.

If I'm aware the driver behind is keeping very close to me to prevent cars zip merging I increase the gap in front of me and wave cars through so they are then in front of me.

Once I've let 2-3 vehicles join in front the driver behind gets the message about how much of an i**** they have been,

Some fairly large assumptions going on here?

How do you know the person too close behind you is doing so to stop others in the next lane merging, rather than simply because they are a f***wit who tailgates all the time?

And how do you subsequently know that they have got the message?. Do they txt you, use sign language, or hold up a hastily written note saying "sorry" backwards?

When driving a bus I never had any problems merging from the overtaking lane. My theory on this is that what winds other drivers right up is when someone just starts steering into their lane, basically forcing their way in. I'd just stay in my lane with the left indicator on until someone let me in, and don't recall ever having to come to a stop before this happened.

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Thu 22 May 2025 20:16

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Sofa Spud

If there;s a sign saying 'zip merge' or words to that effect, then people should use both lanes. If there's no such sign, then it's sensible to merge in good time or else people think it's queue jumping.

I've even seen people using the right-hand lane on the approach to a mini roundabout in order to queue-jump when turning left, by going right round the roundabout. That might not be an offence but if everybody, or even just 20% of drivers did that sort of thing the roads would be chaos.

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Thu 22 May 2025 21:18

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - badbusdriver

I've even seen people using the right-hand lane on the approach to a mini roundabout in order to queue-jump when turning left, by going right round the roundabout. That might not be an offence but if everybody, or even just 20% of drivers did that sort of thing the roads would be chaos.

Yeah, I've seen that too.

Also, when coming into Aberdeen from the North, there are three lanes leading to a roundabout. Left lane is a bus lane (to go across the roundabout into a dedicated bus lane) and for vehicles turning left into an industrial estate. Thing is, turning left leads you to another roundabout in about 100M, so vehicles would queue jump by going along the bus/left turn lane, go down to the next roundabout, round that and back up to the main road!.

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Thu 22 May 2025 22:31

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - bathtub tom

I've even seen people using the right-hand lane on the approach to a mini roundabout in order to queue-jump when turning left, by going right round the roundabout.

I hold my hand up to doing that. But what's wrong?

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Fri 23 May 2025 06:21

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Robert J.

The drivers in the left hand lane then have to wait even longer due to your selfishness.

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Fri 23 May 2025 08:22

Zip merge? That'll be the day... - Orb>>.

Here in Colchester we have a triple whammy,,

This

www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/25145423.colchesters-n.../

This

www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/25018783.road-colchest.../ This afffects me as our little road is off Mile End road and we have to divert up the Northern approach road and ignore the road closed signs southbound as we are allowed access,, Probel.. a lot of parking spaces on the roads removed so everyone trying to park in whats left.

and when something happens on the A12 to induce a closure, ( Frequent! )everything grinds to a halt including on the roundabouts towards the town centre.

But I have noticed that people are being very very good in zip merging as we have all had to put up with it for so long. So it does work. And if an extra one gets in front of me, so what, I'm a few seconds later getting home.

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