FFS, its an article in the Daily Mail. Obviously the "Ice Age Cometh" headline is having a week off and they need to get on a new bandwagon.

Simple solution, buy a car lower down the specs which has non - LED lamps, we did that with the Superb and Fabia.

But look on some forums, people without LED lamps are desperate to have them fitted and will consider expensive solutions just to blind oncoming traffic.

<< mind you I think the MOT will sort that one out! >>

'should'. Let's all hope so.

I would dispute that LEDs last 10 times longer the tungsten bulbs. I was tired of changing the sidelight bulbs on my Subaru, a fiddly job although do-able. So I bought a set of LED bulbs, intending to put them in the next time one of the sidelight lamps failed. Reading the packet (something I always do afterwards !) I saw that the bulbs were only to be used ‘off road’. So I put them away until I saw that the newer cars always were fitted with bright daytime running lights (DRLs). So I fitted them only for one to be dud. They were years old by that stage, although by a leading maker. So I bought a fresh set. When I fitted them they looked better than the tungsten bulbs so I was pleased. Both failed within a week. I’m sure that I was not the only one who bought them. I replaced them with tungsten bulbs.

A few years ago I started replacing my kitchen downlighters with LED's.They were cheap no brand ones from Amazon and they were rubbish. All faded and then went phut within a year. Then I splashed out on some Philips lamps. They have been 100% reliable. I have since installed over 80 of these in a relative's house and 3 years on, again no failures. Buy decent models from a reputable brand and they should last the life of the car.

A former electrical engineer colleague of mine said that often the point of premature failure in LED light fittings was, other than the general quality of the fitting, the robustness (quality) of the control gear and/or transformer/power module.

He said that many of the LED lights, even from reputable manufacturers, and especially early generation designs, did not like being switched on for relatively short periods of time, then off for the same, then on again, presumably for the same reasons that compact fluorescents don't either. This meant that, in buildings at least, lighting systems that were used on timers and PIRs were susceptable to failure after as little as 2 years, costing vastly more because of the higher light fitting costs.

Whilst car lights tend to be used more constantly (though full beam ones less so), the nature of the fittings which don't appear to be modularised mean that in some circumstances a small number of failures can result in the whole unit needing replacement in order to pass an MOT, costing far more than the equivalent bulb cost of a halogen lamp, especially when fitting time is included.

I just wish they'd only started fitting LEDs once the issues surrounding the reliability of the secondary components had been resolved, which doesn't look likely to have been accomplished yet. Just like with electricity 'smart' meters [1st gen], they appear to cause more problems than they were supposed to fix. It wouldn't be so bad if replacing them was cheap and easy.

Tail lights are just as bad. £300 to be totally non-eco friendly and replace a large lump of plastic containing the sealed for life rear light cluster all because an indicator had failed.

To put it in to perspective that is more than I've spent on bulbs for cars (three cars at a time in some years) in 53 years of motoring!

If you're looking at LED running time in thousands of hours, don't bank on it, I'll be generous: 48000 miles (6 years old) at an average of 30mph gives 1600 hrs of running time, then look at how long an indicator led is actually on, perhaps 8 hours maximum.

The manufacturer doesn't see it as a Quality issue but did offer a small "goodwill gesture". Net result, the dealer lost a Customer (for service and for any make of new vehicle), the manufacturer lost any chance of a future vehicle sale... as will any manufacturer/dealer that will not offer free replacement of lights to me at least for my lifetime of the vehicle ownership.

Just my opinion of course but if any manufacturer can design and manufacture something like this that is obvious to the Customer, what chance do we stand on the bits we can't see?

They have no need to make LEDs like they do now, apart from profit, years ago when I bought second hand cars (never more than £500 each) I used to replace all interior bulbs and external bulbs except headlight/MB with led bulbs and never had a problem

I had an old Rover 416 tourer N reg that I replaced all bulbs on as the originals kept blowing, never did find the cause, so replaced the lot, someone rear ended it and smashed the light clusters but although the led bulbs were bent they still worked

I doubt the new type would put up with a smack like that and still work, but I am of the opinion that OEMs could carry on making the old style clusters but use the led replacements that have been used for years and work perfectly well, and cheap to replace

Deleted - didn't mean to reply to this message

Edited by thinkpad on 21/11/2018 at 09:34

This sort of thing doesn't encourage me to get a new vehicle. What with no spare tyre, electronic parking brakes, nagging beeps from assorted warning devices, keyless start which can be hacked and now extortionate costs for things which often get smashed in supermarket car parks. I think I shall hang onto the old bus as long as it keeps going.

Yep - that's what I'm currently doing.

Not that new. My 2005 Audi A8 was apparently the first production car with LED DRLs. They will allegedly last the life of the car (ha!) - which for me is much longer than the unduly young age (partly thanks to the UK's now scandalously overcautious MoT test) at which most cars are scrapped. Thankfully they can be switched off, and usually are during bright daylight journeys. I sometimes wonder if just one of the several bulbs failing would result in MoT failure.

(partly thanks to the UK's now scandalously overcautious MoT test)

Is that the MOT test that ensures all cars on the road "should " be legal at least one day a year.

Without it the the mind boggles at the state cars would be used in.

Car I owned in the 1970's were legal at the time but the corrosion on them would mean they were scrapped now unless repaired. In reality they should have been scrapped then but time were different.

The approx. £50 annual fee is a bargain (our local indy charges £40).

In a perfect world where cars were correctly maintained and owners regularly checked them for obvious faults (lights, tyres etc) the test could be deemed "overcautious" but the reality is without it we would be surrounded by deathtraps.

You make a valid point, unfortunately we also are surrounded by roadworthy vehicles driven by idiots, which I would suggest are a greater danger.

I wonder if a morbid driver is dangerous - I suppose any emotion behind the wheel is undesirable!

(I think you meant mortality.)

When manufactured properly LED lights can last the life of the car - you only need to look at dash lights. However much of it is made to a budget and corners are cut heavily which is why they fail.

After replacing the bulbs in our house with LEDs, one of the brand kept failing every 3-6 months. Funnily enough, the cheapest brand bought from Quality Save has been the best - out of the 3 bulbs none of them have failed after a year. Also 3 Asda own brand bulbs bought 3 years ago are still working fine.

The one in the living room (can't remember brand but paid £6 - 1500 lumens - being the brightest in the house) has started to flicker after nearly 2 years.

I was told by electrical engineer colleagues that quite often the problem (at least with LED lights in buildings) is down to poor control gear/power modules as much as the 'lamp' part itself. And the more they are switched on and off over short periods, the worse this is as well.

Additionally, they said that lots of 'standard' LEDs in the home don't like being in harsh environments - high or low humidity, same for ambient temperature, e.g. cooker hood lamps, ones going in damp/cold sheds and garages, etc.

The wide variation in thermal conditions and humidity in car engine bays doesn't seem to be conducive either - so unless the units are properly shielded from the environment (or in the case of heat, have methods to dissipate it) and have robust electronics, then it's no surprise that they don't last anywhere near as long as stated on the packaging.

I must admit being surprised at how many previously well regarded brands are producing seemingly poor quality equipmenty these days, or at least (with cars) how many car manufacturers are happily specifying and installing such low quality kit in their cars whilst at the same time professing how 'reliable' they are.

Certain major parts might not need so much maintenance as 10-15 years ago, but if an increasing number of parts are part of in-in-one fitments that cost several hundred pounds to replace when the previous ones cost under £10, then to me that isn't an advancement, but a ruse to increase profits.

Pardon me for asking this, but why are people swapping perfectly good standard bulbs for these led thingies,

Look on most single make forums and there will be countless threads about the best bulbs to buy with posters getting all excited and moist because their new bulbs are a slightly different colour thus making them more visible from Mars.

Its called modifying your car, people have been doing it since the car was invented. Back in the 70's when new cars had Lucas 40 watt tungsten sealed beam headlamps that gave about as much light as a couple of glow worms (LED DRL's are probably brighter) it was normal to replace them with a pair of Ciebie H1 55 watt halogens that not only gave out more light but had a far better beam pattern.

Thing was when fitted those lights did not blind the car you were following or were about to crash into since you had just blinded the driver.

Not felt to need to upgrade lights since my first purchase with decent factory fit halogens. I have resisted the expensive option of first Xenons and now LED's despite sales persons assuring me that my car would be unsalable in 3 years time. As we know all sales persons lie and I have never had a problem getting a decent price. In truth I have never beeen asked if any car has the Xenon or LED option.