Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - catsdad
I am fuming. I put our car into our (previously) trusted independent for an oil service and MoT.

He called me to say it had passed but all four tyres were close to the legal limit. He said that if I wanted to replace them he could do so for £48 a tyre for good budget tyres. Not a bad price but I said I'd leave it for now. I was very surprised as I had thought they were all OK but I know you can miss things they can see on the ramps.

I collected the car later and once home i ran the tyre depth measure over the tyres. Fronts were both 3-4mm across the whole width while the rears were 5mm and 7mm! The limit is of course 1.6mm and 7mm is almost new.

I took the car straight back to the proprietor who said that he had done the MoT himself and he had thought they were close to the legal limit. He then got out his electronic measure and confirmed all my measurements. He said he had originally only measured one of the fronts and just looked at the others and thought they looked low but no harm was done as it had passed and he hadn't tried to sell me tyres!

Thats not entirely accurate as he had of course quoted me for four tyres over the phone. I now have an MoT saying that I have four tyres close to the legal limit when they are actually well over the limit. He said it was just advice. He said I was arguing about nothing. I said I wasn't happy to have advisories when there should be none. He shrugged and I left.

i could get a tyre report from a tyre place and take this further but I can do without the stress so might just take my custom elsewhere.

To put the cap on it I noticed that I'd been charged for screenwash when I left it brim full. And anyway this was supposed to be an oil service. Unbelievable.
Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - RT

The advisories are now on public record for all time, now that MoT results are available online.

You could consider formal appeal if advisories form grounds to do so.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - SLO76
Avoid next time and spread the word to friends and family. I hate this sort of thing.
Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - elekie&a/c doctor

You can't appeal an Mot advisory.Only if it passes or fails. An advisory for tyres on an Mot is not a life changing issue,so i would not be too concerned.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - catsdad
elekie what you say is true in the grand scheme of things. But I previously would have trusted this guy totally and I'm annoyed that this trust has now gone.

I do think shelling out nearly £200 for clearly unecessary work is a matter of concern. At the margins tyre depth is a judgement but not when its 5-7mm. That is taking the proverbial.
Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - elekie&a/c doctor

Agreed,its the work not required rather than the mot issue.Perhaps the garage can offer something at the next service (if you feel brave enough to return)

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - RT

You can't appeal an Mot advisory.Only if it passes or fails. An advisory for tyres on an Mot is not a life changing issue,so i would not be too concerned.

I did wonder so qualified my suggestion - on one hand, it's not an issue at all as the tyres seems to have way more tread depth than the limit - but for anyone who is conciencous about their car maintenance it looks bad.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - catsdad
RT As I avoided the uneccessary work it may only matter if we sell before the next MoT (tyres will still be comfortably legal as projected mileage for the next year is only about 1500). Some buyers will trust the advisory rather than my word or their own eyes.

In its previous life the car was doing 15000 miles each year so none of the tyres is old. I will change them when they fall clearly below 3mm or get old even if well treaded. So yes my concientious side is narked too as I would never ignore an accurate tyre advisory.
Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Manatee

There seems to be a sudden desire to put advisories on MoTs.

My old MX-5, now sold, had no advisories for years although I could have come up with a few myself.

At the last one, it had several - thin brake pads (they are thin to start wth on MX-5s), corrosion etc.

Something has changed perhaps in the way they are being "marked".

That was cheeky though. As you say, annoying when somebody you trust does that, not least because you have to try and find somebody else.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

I always look at MoT history and have crossed of cars when it appears the owner has not been scrupulous in maintenance, e.g tyres close to limit. Fully understand your annoyance at the breach of trusr.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Andrew-T

I always look at MoT history and have crossed of cars when it appears the owner has not been scrupulous in maintenance, e.g tyres close to limit. Fully understand your annoyance at the breach of trusr.

I don't read much into tyres being 'near limit'. As long as they haven't passed that limit they are OK, and the tester has done his job and advised. The advised limit is now 1.6mm whereas it used to be only 1mm. Decent margin I would say.

I guess the OP is annoyed not so much about being out of pocket (he isn't) but at finding he has trusted this guy and been misled. Put it down to experience and find another garage.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Engineer Andy

I always look at MoT history and have crossed of cars when it appears the owner has not been scrupulous in maintenance, e.g tyres close to limit. Fully understand your annoyance at the breach of trusr.

I don't read much into tyres being 'near limit'. As long as they haven't passed that limit they are OK, and the tester has done his job and advised. The advised limit is now 1.6mm whereas it used to be only 1mm. Decent margin I would say.

I guess the OP is annoyed not so much about being out of pocket (he isn't) but at finding he has trusted this guy and been misled. Put it down to experience and find another garage.

I would only have reservations about buying a car that had advisories that appeared on consecutive MOTs and not fixed or that subsequently only were after they became failure items.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - gordonbennet

I would only have reservations about buying a car that had advisories that appeared on consecutive MOTs and not fixed or that subsequently only were after they became failure items.

Same for me, failures are what counts, advisories only really bother me when they repeat except for corrosion.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

I have admitted previously that I'm obsessive. Really I should, and will, try to be realistic. I'll still replace my tyres at 3.00. Driving through Cumbria today pleased I do.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - RT

I always look at MoT history and have crossed of cars when it appears the owner has not been scrupulous in maintenance, e.g tyres close to limit. Fully understand your annoyance at the breach of trusr.

I don't read much into tyres being 'near limit'. As long as they haven't passed that limit they are OK, and the tester has done his job and advised. The advised limit is now 1.6mm whereas it used to be only 1mm. Decent margin I would say.

I guess the OP is annoyed not so much about being out of pocket (he isn't) but at finding he has trusted this guy and been misled. Put it down to experience and find another garage.

AFAIK the 1.6mm is a legal limit, not an advisory one - I personally replace tyres when down to 3mm - but the OP's tyres were well over that.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Bromptonaut

There seems to be something, whether reasoned belief or urban myth, that leads some MoT testers to think that adding advisories improves their score/reputation with DVSA.

Search history for KU05 EOB, my old Berlingo, repeated advisories for engine covers obscuring components, wheel trim missing, and minor scrapes in door/wing.

None of the four tests since 2014 on my current car, a Skoda Roomster with engine covers and a collection of minor scrapes has any advisories.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 22/11/2017 at 23:06

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Avant

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood that the actual performance of a tyre diminishes quite rapidly once the tread is down below 3mm.

Better safe than sorry, given that the tyres are our only contact with the road - and at any given time, just a small fraction of the surface of each tyre.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - catsdad
Avant, I believe that too. Nevertheless the 3mm discussion was had on the forum a few months back. Some in the industry were lobbying for 3mm as the new limit. Notably Michelin came out against this so even some vested interests think that below 3mm is OK.

However I too am a better safe than sorry type so I will be changing when they go through 3 mm. As per my original post they are above/considerably above that at present. On our main car I changed to Cross climates all round this year and ditched tyres with around 3-4 mm to do so. I don't eke my tyres out.



Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Andrew-T

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood that the actual performance of a tyre diminishes quite rapidly once the tread is down below 3mm.

I'm sure it must do, but I am happy that the diminution will be proportionally small (compared with a new tyre) and represents a negligible risk to my style and speed of driving, in the weather conditions in which I drive. Tyres are already pretty expensive replacement items, and if powers-that-be reckon 1.6mm is the point at which to start worrying, I am prepared to take their word for it.

Those tyres which you reject at 3mm probably get passed on in the 'part-used' trade, and end up on the car of a less-bothered driver.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - RT

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always understood that the actual performance of a tyre diminishes quite rapidly once the tread is down below 3mm.

I'm sure it must do, but I am happy that the diminution will be proportionally small (compared with a new tyre) and represents a negligible risk to my style and speed of driving, in the weather conditions in which I drive. Tyres are already pretty expensive replacement items, and if powers-that-be reckon 1.6mm is the point at which to start worrying, I am prepared to take their word for it.

Those tyres which you reject at 3mm probably get passed on in the 'part-used' trade, and end up on the car of a less-bothered driver.

The reduction in wet grip is dramatic below 3mm - 1.6mm was chosen due to difficulty getting global agreement - many authorities are pushing for the limit to be increased to 3mm.

Your tyres are the only contact with the ground you have - don't compromise the safety of other road users, you do what you want with your own life.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - madf

The reduction in wet grip is dramatic below 3mm - 1.6mm was chosen due to difficulty getting global agreement - many authorities are pushing for the limit to be increased to 3mm.

Your tyres are the only contact with the ground you have - don't compromise the safety of other road users, you do what you want with your own life.

TYry driving with 2mm tread in snow - it equates to bald tyres as 2mm fills up with snow and traction is minimal.

I change at 3mm - and usually get scared in winter if near 3mm...

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Andrew-T

<< Try driving with 2mm tread in snow - it equates to bald tyres as 2mm fills up with snow and traction is minimal. >>

Having spent 4 years in Canada (admittedly a long time ago) I have tried driving in snow quite a bit, but not very often since [ I have even enjoyd the experience of driving in freezing rain - now that really was a challenge ]. Unless you fit proper snow tyres I'm not convinced 8mm tread on ordinary ones is a lot better than 3, or even 2 for that matter.

I agree that full-depth tyres will make an important difference on a M'way in heavy rain. It's many years since I have done that, so I won't be changing tyres while they still have (for me) 1.4mm left.

Edited by Andrew-T on 23/11/2017 at 12:29

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Andrew-T

<< ... - many authorities are pushing for the limit to be increased to 3mm. >>

So, probably, are tyre makers?

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - alan1302

<< ... - many authorities are pushing for the limit to be increased to 3mm. >>

So, probably, are tyre makers?

Except Michelin who are happy with their tyres under 3mm

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - FiestaOwner

I always look at MoT history and have crossed of cars when it appears the owner has not been scrupulous in maintenance, e.g tyres close to limit. Fully understand your annoyance at the breach of trusr.

My last MOT had an advisory for worn brake discs. When I checked them, I found they were just over 22mm. Minimum thickness printed on the disc is 21mm. New discs are 23mm thick.

My discs were almost half worn! This MOT was done at a Ford dealer, who also does my servicing. They won't be doing my next MOT.

Incidentally my car never does more than 7000 miles a year and I have always booked it into the dealer for the MOT and service to be done at the same time. It has been serviced by the same dealer every year from new and has never been late for a service.

As it now has an advisory recorded against it (when it was 5 years old), does that mean you wouldn't consider purchasing it on the basis of that one advisory?

Think we can read too much into occasional advisories.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

Fiesta Owner you are quite right. The problem for me is that my car technical knowledge is limited so I have to rely on what professonals say. Obviously in your case I would miss a perfectly good car maintained by a conscientious owner.

However, in my position, what other options do I have ?

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - gordonbennet

Advisories are only that, it might be better if there was a sub heading ie ''advise getting this fixed before next MOT at current annual mileage''.

Because as it stands to some the advisory sounds like the part is hanging by a thread but i the tester wasn't allowed to fail it this time.

Its worth differentiating between friction/regularly changed parts, or things like corrosion that unless brake pipes alone or suspension part corrosion that can be treated or it could spell the beginning of either serious expense to refurb/rebuild or the beginning of the end of the vehicle itself.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - pd

Fiesta Owner you are quite right. The problem for me is that my car technical knowledge is limited so I have to rely on what professonals say. Obviously in your case I would miss a perfectly good car maintained by a conscientious owner.

However, in my position, what other options do I have ?

That's fine but the only MOT test which really matters is the last one it had, which ideally wasn't long ago. What went on in the past doesn't really matter.

A conscientous owner may well have avoided MOT advisories but decided to get shot of the car when a garage told them the msytery gearbox fault which only manifests its self after 2 hours driving would cost £4k to fix....

You simply can't decide if a car is good or bad looking at the MOT history. It is misleading and will lead you up a garden path. It is one other useful bit of information to be used to build a picture of the car - not a definitive statement.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - RT

Fiesta Owner you are quite right. The problem for me is that my car technical knowledge is limited so I have to rely on what professonals say. Obviously in your case I would miss a perfectly good car maintained by a conscientious owner.

However, in my position, what other options do I have ?

That's fine but the only MOT test which really matters is the last one it had, which ideally wasn't long ago. What went on in the past doesn't really matter.

A conscientous owner may well have avoided MOT advisories but decided to get shot of the car when a garage told them the msytery gearbox fault which only manifests its self after 2 hours driving would cost £4k to fix....

You simply can't decide if a car is good or bad looking at the MOT history. It is misleading and will lead you up a garden path. It is one other useful bit of information to be used to build a picture of the car - not a definitive statement.

I disagree - where there's a good choice of used cars, some buyers will check the MoT history and discount any with history of advisories - it may mean nothing in reality but that's how some buyer's minds work.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - pd

Oh I agree. But they are bonkers and don't know what they are doing. They're also small in numbers and not people you'd want to sell a car to anyway!

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Dogfuzz

How old where the tyres? If more than 3 yrs--then I would also question the walls. Hold on to them for a bit then change the whole lot in the spring? .

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - catsdad
Hi Doubleug
The car is a 2010 and used to be driven for high mileages so its had a few sets of tyres. The ones fitted now are all stamped for 2013 and 2014. Blackcircles say tyres can be retailed as new up to 5 years from the stamped date and should be replaced when 7-10 years old.

So the fronts will be replaced on tread depth and the rears on age. Probably about the 7 year mark - a lot longer than the 3 -4 years you seem to be suggesting. I dont think that is necessary for a low performance car which we now expect only to do 1500 miles a year.






Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

I would not rely on no advisories meaning good but bad just one way of trying to judge. I agree my car buying is probably 'bonkers' but never met anyone who was selling a car who didn't want to sell it to me !

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

pd In my opinion describing people as 'bonkers' on the forum is rude and falls below the standard of the majority. Perhaps you might think more carefully before being so ill mannered.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Andrew-T

pd In my opinion describing people as 'bonkers' on the forum is rude and falls below the standard of the majority.

Sorry, I disagree. Bonkers is a fairly common and relatively harmless term, and I doubt that it was used with the intention to offend anyone in particular. What offends me is those people who examine anything said or issued by almost anyone, looking for something to object to. If necessary, call for a resignation somewhere. That attitude doesn't foster a culture of peaceful co-operation.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Avant

Scot, like you I value politeness and do what I can to control gratuitous offensiveness on the forum. But in this case PD was describing a general class of buyer, rather than a poster on the forum, and I wouldn't object to what he's said.

Both extremes of buyer can be irritating - those who nit-pick at everything (including minor advisories), and the opposite, the ones I often call 'Arthur Punter' - the sort who come on here asking our advice about replacing their ageing diesel Vauxhall, but still end up doing their 5,000 miles a year in a 10-year-old diesel BMW.....and come back and complain about that.

Edited by Avant on 24/11/2017 at 15:54

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

Look at what followed bonkers. Context is important. I agree with your other comment.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - pd

pd In my opinion describing people as 'bonkers' on the forum is rude and falls below the standard of the majority. Perhaps you might think more carefully before being so ill mannered.

I wasn't referring to you in particular or calling you anything. I was simply saying that anyone who OKs or dismissed a car based on a few advisories 3 years and 40k miles ago is doing it wrong. Sorry, but I simply think they are and are more likely to buy a bad car than not.

Obviously if a car had 17 advisories on a MOT 2 weeks previous you need to be careful but not minor day to day stuff which can all be a bit random anyway. Equally a car with no advisories may have four 2mm tyres and the owner just asked the garage not to put any one in exchange for a tenner. It happens. A lot.

It worries me when I see people starting to buy used cars - particularly older ones like mobile phones where you can do it all on line and then simply pitch up and pay. You can't I'm afraid. Used cars are ultimaely a cheapsakte thing, they are a compromise either because the buyer can't afford or doesn't want to pay for a new or nearly new one. That's fine but it means you need to do a bit of hard work.

That means scrabbling about on the ground looking at things like tyres - not just looking online in the warm. Sorry, but there is no short cut, if you want to buy a decent car that is howyou need to check and you don't need to be an expert to do it. Anyone can check a tyre depth for exanple and shouldn't be driving if they can't.

The MOT online check is very useful for building up a picture of the car and checking the mileage but it is one bit of information amongst many - not a definitive judgement on a car.

I buy about 200 cars a year so I like to think I have a rough idea.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

You are clearly one of the posters who make this forum so valuable to people like me. I realise my knowledge is limited so now use as many screening devices as I can. Also I now make sure I look to change before it being essential.

I would never buy a car unseen. At least a test drive is essential. Also, unless I know the seller, I buy from reasonably local dealers. When you don't have the experience to judge something it is not an easy to assess a car.

To return to the OP I think my trusted independent let me down once. Howver, it was once so still use and get excellent customer service. I do know how that is. The experience is disappointing but slips do happen.

Finally, pd thanks for sharing your knowledge. I am sure you have much more than a rough idea

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - gordonbennet
Used cars are ultimaely a cheapsakte thing, they are a compromise either because the buyer can't afford or doesn't want to pay for a new or nearly new one.

This is the only part i disagree with.

There are some of us out there who actively do not want what car makers now make, so used cars are our preferred choice, some of us, me, don't like almost anything made in the last 10 years if it comes to it.

We can afford new, but we don't want to, nothing against people who want new cars for all the different reasons they do, good luck to them, their hard earned to spend as they wish, but be aware some of us wouldn't want almost anything new currently for sale in this country because we actually dislike what's on offer, plus my hard earned to spend as i wish.

Call us Luddites if you like, but cheapskates does not necessarily apply, i don't suppose my motoring is any cheaper by buying used and overmaintaining, and i wouldn't suggest anyone else copies my way, but my way provides me with vehicles i actually want to own and drive, not having to put up with the latest design they suggest i have.

One size does not fit all, yet.

If i was to buy a new car for the sheer pleasure of it, it would probably be a Subaru WRX purely for its sheer excellence (but would have to be a grey to get the auto box), but no use to me because it would have to be an estate to accommodate 3 dogs 2 of which are compulsive swimmers even if they have to break the ice to get in, by the way i could afford it too.

I could buy a new or newish Landcruiser, but i dislike the new models intently and they've got too complicated, Toyota battered them with the ugly stick like they've done everything else, bar the GT86, i like my old Landcruiser, the Mrs loves her old Outback, its scraped and battered and filthy from muddy dogs, but it goes like hell, its totally reliable, she can park it anywhere and if it collects another scrape she shrugs it off, when it dies she wants another.

Edited by gordonbennet on 24/11/2017 at 11:10

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - pd
Used cars are ultimaely a cheapsakte thing, they are a compromise either because the buyer can't afford or doesn't want to pay for a new or nearly new one.

This is the only part i disagree with.

There are some of us out there who actively do not want what car makers now make, so used cars are our preferred choice, some of us, me, don't like almost anything made in the last 10 years if it comes to it.

Well, yes, I agree and I do understand and to a certain extent I am in the same category but it is a very small category.

In reality 99% of car buyers want as much shiny and new with some sort of large TFT screen as they can get for their money.

People like us who frequent car forums are not very typical of the "normal" used car buyer! ;)

Edited by pd on 24/11/2017 at 13:14

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - scot22

Unfortunately my post was meant to follow the one before Avant and now looks as if it is in response to Avant. I appreciate I am at times over sensitive and am not a night person.

I fully agree with Avant's comments and respect the way you moderate the forum Avant, have you ever thought of becoming Mr.Speaker ? !

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - gordonbennet
People like us who frequent car forums are not very typical of the "normal" used car buyer! ;)

You're mean there's a slghtly remote possibility we could in some rare case be considered a bit odd?, yep i can relate to that, and long may it continue to be the case, i like being odd :-)

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Andrew-T
Used cars are ultimaely a cheapsakte thing, they are a compromise either because the buyer can't afford or doesn't want to pay for a new or nearly new one.

Call us Luddites if you like, but cheapskates does not necessarily apply, i don't suppose my motoring is any cheaper by buying used and overmaintaining,

I'm in the same club as GB. Since owning my first car in 1964 I have never come closer to buying brand-new than about 8 months old. The main reasons are two: [a] I don't like the exaggerated smell of a new car, and [b] even with a hefty discount I know that once a new car drives off a forecourt it has suddenly become worth several £K less.

So I am smugly confident that over those 53 years I must have avoided a lot of depreciation .... [now a long way off topic :-) ]

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - gordonbennet

We have purchased one new vehicle, Hilux pick up in 2007, the then new mk 6 model had been out only a couple of years and had only just been made available in the UK with the 3.0litre engine and auto box.

I used to deliver new Toyotas to the excellent local main dealer and they offered me such a good price that it was actually cheaper to buy new than one of the very few used versions available at the time, lucky we ordered when we did because that top gear north pole program aired two weeks later and such was the increased interest in the vehicle following the program they could not have given us the same deal.

However even those fine vehicles have now gained a DPF, and back down to a 2.4 engine if i'm not mistaken.

Offtopic? HJ's BR?, Never :-)

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - Brit_in_Germany

Putting advisories on the MOT with no factual basis is just not on. Imagine if the car was involved in a crash on wet roads and subsequently was gutted by fire. There would be no possibility of checking the tread depth so the MOT might be used to place the blame on the state of the tyres and hence the driver. Just not on.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - argybargy

The downside of my own argument above, on a personal level at least, is that if, for example, I'd bought a car new ten years ago when I took retirement, rather than spending a total of over 16 grand on buying 3 used cars since 2007 which have then cost me money to fix, buying a new car might have ended up being worth it.

But we are where we are.

Any - Trusted independent let me down on MoT tyre report - catsdad
Brit
I think I will take advantage of the free check at our local Tyre outlet so I've got the actual figures on independent record.

Edited by catsdad on 25/11/2017 at 13:23

 

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