The farmers claim that they got no warning lights at all and only noticed there was a problem when the engine started rocking.
It's now at a LR specialist having the body lifted off to access the engine for a rebuild !
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The farmers claim that they got no warning lights at all and only noticed there was a problem when the engine started rocking. It's now at a LR specialist having the body lifted off to access the engine for a rebuild !
That didn't answer the question that 'Brit in Germany' asked. Did they (ever ?) go through the procedure for checking the oil level using the electronic dipstick ?
I do it regularly on my BMW (which thankfully also has a manual dipstick). On BMW it involves making sure the engine is up to temperature (it won't allow the procedure to go ahead unless this is the case), being on (roughly) level ground, and then starting the oil level check in the menu. Revs rise slightly (to about 1100rpm), and the procedure takes about a minute. In the event of a problem with the electronic dipstick and it can't read the level, it reports that problem at the end of the procedure, and you can then get it checked out (that's never happened to me, but that's what the handbook says happens).
I strongly suspect they've never checked the oil level, or attempted to do so.
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The farmers claim that they got no warning lights at all and only noticed there was a problem when the engine started rocking. It's now at a LR specialist having the body lifted off to access the engine for a rebuild !
That didn't answer the question that 'Brit in Germany' asked. Did they (ever ?) go through the procedure for checking the oil level using the electronic dipstick ?
I do it regularly on my BMW (which thankfully also has a manual dipstick). On BMW it involves making sure the engine is up to temperature (it won't allow the procedure to go ahead unless this is the case), being on (roughly) level ground, and then starting the oil level check in the menu. Revs rise slightly (to about 1100rpm), and the procedure takes about a minute. In the event of a problem with the electronic dipstick and it can't read the level, it reports that problem at the end of the procedure, and you can then get it checked out (that's never happened to me, but that's what the handbook says happens).
I strongly suspect they've never checked the oil level, or attempted to do so.
It's a valid question - BUT - I regularly check mine but have no way of knowing if the sensor is giving an accurate reading or not.
You can be as suspicious as you want, without a manual dipstick there's no plan B in the case of electronic failure.
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The reason for my question is that for my XF, the procedure was to wait at least ten minutes after the engine had been switched off with the car level. I suspect there is no warning device for low oil, only low oil pressure.
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I don't like the sound of an electric setup to check the oil. I would avoid it like the palgue.
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The major benefit would seem to be that the oil gets checked every time it is switched on, and the driver informed.
I'm amazedif it neither showed a warning or an error. It would be incompetent not to design it to be fail safe, especially if there is no actual dipstick.
I have heard enough stories of people ignoring warning lights to make it the preferred explanation - but then I don't know the people concerned.
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Fifty years ago I had a Rover with a fuel guage which doubled as an oil level guage when you pushed a button.
My 1983 Ford Granada 2.3 had an electronic oil level indicator. So nothing new.
Ren to one the oil warning lights come on and it was ignored... I recall seeing a Lady topping up 12 month old Passat with oil as the oil pressure warning light had come on after 20k miles . It had never been serviced and she had never checked the oil!
Most new drivers have as much knowledge of cars as they do of washing machines or TVs. And don't want to know more..
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If indeed there really was no warning light or message, this warrants taking up the issue directly with Land Rover. Something as vital as a low oil level check that is only accessible via an electronic indicator requires a failsafe approach. Even the indicator lamp should have a self check.
I think I have read that some cars, maybe it was VW, won't allow you to start the engine if the (electronically measured) oil level is too low. This should also apply if the self check of the oil level measuring system detects certain faults that stop it from knowing if the level is sufficient.
Having eliminated the manual dipstick, I think the onus is on the manufacturer to ensure their replacement system is foolproof.
Maybe there is a case for the small claims court to consider here.
Edited by brum on 31/08/2017 at 13:08
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“barney100
-- SNIP --
Most new drivers have as much knowledge of cars as they do of washing machines or TVs. And don't want to know more…”
“barney100
I don't like the sound of an electric setup to check the oil. I would avoid it like the plague.”
The engine of my Subaru has just started using a small amount of oil at 110,000 miles. Because there is no level ground where I live I check the oil level when I go to the supermarket car park across two bays, fore and aft with the rainwater drain in between. That way I’m about sure of the level.
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I don't think we are getting the full story here. However...........let's not lose sight of the fact plenty of car owners neglect checking the oil level and suffer the consequences even when they do have a dipstick fitted!
Not familiar with the Disco myself but given how critical the oil level is I would be very surprised if the system wasn't self checking or fail safe.
I have yet to own a vehicle without a traditional dipstick. When the time eventually comes I will, due it's absence be paying a great deal of attention as to what the dashboard is or it ndeed isnt!! telling me. Furthermore I feel that had the owner of the vehicle concerned bothered to RTFM they wouldn't be in this situation.
Edited by TedCrilly on 31/08/2017 at 21:24
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I don't think we are getting the full story here. However...........let's not lose sight of the fact plenty of car owners neglect checking the oil level and suffer the consequences even when they do have a dipstick fitted!
Not familiar with the Disco myself but given how critical the oil level is I would be very surprised if the system wasn't self checking or fail safe.
I have yet to own a vehicle without a traditional dipstick. When the time eventually comes I will, due it's absence be paying a great deal of attention as to what the dashboard is or it ndeed isnt!! telling me. Furthermore I feel that had the owner of the vehicle concerned bothered to RTFM they wouldn't be in this situation.
I can only say that even weekly checks using the electronics don't give full peace of mind - my VW Touareg only has an electronic sensor - I'm well aware that electronics can fail in many unexpected ways - it may not be statistically likely but still possible.
The bit that pigs me off is that a VW Touareg, and a Discovery, are expensive cars - elimination of the dipstick will have saved a few pence at best - retaining it in addition to electronic monitoring would have been really good.
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RT have you investigated an aftermarket dipstick conversion kit, i haven't a clue if your engine is possible mind, but if it is no doubt there's a thread on one of the make specific models spilling the beans.
Luckily i'm never likely to own a car without a dipstick, which suits me fine.
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RT have you investigated an aftermarket dipstick conversion kit, i haven't a clue if your engine is possible mind, but if it is no doubt there's a thread on one of the make specific models spilling the beans.
Luckily i'm never likely to own a car without a dipstick, which suits me fine.
Yes - the older VW V6 TDI still had the dipstick entry point, but blanked out, and could have a dipstick retro-fitted - but so far I've found no way of doing it on my recent model - I'm not totally sure as there's so much periphery equipment obscuring the view.
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RT have you investigated an aftermarket dipstick conversion kit, i haven't a clue if your engine is possible mind, but if it is no doubt there's a thread on one of the make specific models spilling the beans.
Luckily i'm never likely to own a car without a dipstick, which suits me fine.
Electronic dipsticks sound like a solution looking for a problem. Perhaps there is a good reason why they are being fitted but I can't think what it is.
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onic dipsticks sound like a solution looking for a problem. Perhaps there is a good reason why they are being fitted but I can't think what it is.
The logical one is that the car can proactively warn when the oil is low.
It addresses the 'problem' of the many users who never check the dip stick.
It does not address the problem of the users who ignore warning lights.
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Electronic dipsticks sound like a solution looking for a problem. Perhaps there is a good reason why they are being fitted but I can't think what it is.
Well if they were designed properly the oil level would flash up soon as you turned the ignition on and that level display would stay visible for a reasonable time after starting, and flashing dementedly until you deliberately cancelled the display before your eyes failed if the oil were at a dangerous level.
I'd be quite happy to have an electronic check, just so long as, like RobJP's BMW, there is a dipstick available for confirmation.
From various posters that have appeared here too many of the motoring public haven't a clue so the car has to do everything for them in this dumbed down society.
Interestingly lorries with electronic displays record when the relevant menu is accessed, so in the event of total engine failure due to lack of oil, the maker can provide evidence of neglect, i wonder if the LR in this thread has similar information the garage can access.
Edited by gordonbennet on 01/09/2017 at 14:58
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Electronic dipsticks sound like a solution looking for a problem. Perhaps there is a good reason why they are being fitted but I can't think what it is.
Well if they were designed properly the oil level would flash up soon as you turned the ignition on and that level display would stay visible for a reasonable time after starting, and flashing dementedly until you deliberately cancelled the display before your eyes failed if the oil were at a dangerous level.
I'd be quite happy to have an electronic check, just so long as, like RobJP's BMW, there is a dipstick available for confirmation.
From various posters that have appeared here too many of the motoring public haven't a clue so the car has to do everything for them in this dumbed down society.
Interestingly lorries with electronic displays record when the relevant menu is accessed, so in the event of total engine failure due to lack of oil, the maker can provide evidence of neglect, i wonder if the LR in this thread has similar information the garage can access.
Agreed - electronic warning would be a good addition to the oh-so-simple dipstick - just like pressure-based TPMS is a good addition, if I get a warning I can double-check with a conventional pressure gauge and if it were the sensor at fault, get it replaced or if the tyre has indeed lost pressure then get it fixed.
My VW throws up another electronic inconsistency - on the continent, servicing is at 15,000 km intervals (9,321 miles) but in the UK the interval is 10,000 miles - so every time it's reset I get 15,000km (it's a German car!) before next service which is converted so displays as 9,300 miles - the dealer tells me it's fine to be 700 miles "late" every time it goes in for service.
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Speaking to one of the farmers relatives about the £8000 repair bill, she said that the only dipsticks involved in this story its her cousin who possibly forgot to check the electronic procedure involved and just relied on a warning light.
She said its the sort of thing a woman might forget but not a fella !!!!!!!!!!!
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"RT
I can only say that even weekly checks using the electronics don't give full peace of mind - my VW Touareg only has an electronic sensor - I'm well aware that electronics can fail in many unexpected ways - it may not be statistically likely but still possible.
The bit that pigs me off is that a VW Touareg, and a Discovery, are expensive cars - elimination of the dipstick will have saved a few pence at best - retaining it in addition to electronic monitoring would have been really good."
The 'Chelsea tractor' set would not know that the engine needed oil. They are not likely to check what they do not know. They are only interested in having the right make of shoes and handbag, males included.
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Every week I physically check oil water tyres. I do 20k miles a year. Oddly enough checking weekly i have never had an engine sieze through oil starvation.
Peculiar that.
My dad taught me to do this. He learnt in the army driving Carden Lloyd carriers up/ down lumpy bits of Wales.
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"RT
I can only say that even weekly checks using the electronics don't give full peace of mind - my VW Touareg only has an electronic sensor - I'm well aware that electronics can fail in many unexpected ways - it may not be statistically likely but still possible.
The bit that pigs me off is that a VW Touareg, and a Discovery, are expensive cars - elimination of the dipstick will have saved a few pence at best - retaining it in addition to electronic monitoring would have been really good."
The 'Chelsea tractor' set would not know that the engine needed oil. They are not likely to check what they do not know. They are only interested in having the right make of shoes and handbag, males included.
Other types of customers buy big SUVs - and the Chelsea set are more likely to buy Bentayga, FF Range Rover or Cayenne than Touareg /Discovery.
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All this mistrust of modern electronic systems.
One wonders how the cynics would cope on 3 hour flight to Benidorm on a 20 year old A380 (or similar)
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All this mistrust of modern electronic systems.
One wonders how the cynics would cope on 3 hour flight to Benidorm on a 20 year old A380 (or similar)
If car components had the same Mean Time Between Failure (MTBF) and investigation after EVERY accident it would be different - cars would cost millions of £s as well!
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Easy. That's not my problem. That's why you employ trained pilots to fly your airbus and not some bloke down the pub.
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Latest news is that LR have refused To contribute towards the .16k bill. They claim that the owner should have checked the oil level by pressing the test button before moving off.
Threats to report them to the NFU fell on deaf ears!
New engine plus fitting required !
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So why doesnt the car do the test itself by default?
I thought we'd moved on since 1950
Or are they like aeroplanes and require a 15 min pre flight check each time we start the engines.
Note to self. Never buy a Land Rover.....
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So, by the sound of it, the OBC records when the oil level check is done, and they never carried out the checks.
Which the handbook will undoubtedly tell them to do, along with detailed instructions.
An expensive lesson. Wonder if it'll be learnt ?
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Has the repair cost doubled? If t's really 16k that will surely write it off.
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Great, it has an OBC that records everything, but it cant check the oil level itself but requires a human to press a button.
Lets hope the same designers arent involved in the land rover autonomous driving project!!
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