Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - expat

This guy bought a Japanese import hybrid and only got one key which he lost. Toyota couldn't get him another key and he ended up having to pay big money to get the car computer hacked to reprogram another key.

www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/hacker-he.../

I am told that this isn't the only make where you get one key and have to have the computer reprogrammed if you lose it. It doesn't make things more secure. It just leads to thieves breaking into your house to steal your keys or car jacking you at the supermarket car park. I would rather they just hot wired the car if they are determined to steal it rather than threatening me with violence to give them the key.

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - NARU

Or to paraphrase...

  • Someone buys an imported car, knowing that there is little or no dealer support in the country
  • It comes with an immobiliser, but only one key.
  • When he loses the key, he has to go to the back streets to find someone to bypass the immobiliser.
  • It costs a lot of money
Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - badbusdriver

Not really a new thing, though admittedly the costs are eye opening. Years ago I remember reading about issues with fiats. They were supplied new with 3 keys, one of which was blue (I think). Anyway, the blue key was like a master key, something to do with the immobiliser, and if you lost it, you would have to pay a small fortune to get a new one.

On a different, but still security related, note, years ago when I worked at a Saab dealer, I had managed to buy my 1st Saab, an old 99. I spoke to a mechanic about overcoming the problem of the locks freezing in winter. He told me to just leave the car unlocked!. That's what he did with his 900 turbo, said because the ignition key locked the car in reverse gear, it wasn't easy to steal one.

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - craig-pd130

Not really a new thing, though admittedly the costs are eye opening. Years ago I remember reading about issues with fiats. They were supplied new with 3 keys, one of which was blue (I think). Anyway, the blue key was like a master key, something to do with the immobiliser, and if you lost it, you would have to pay a small fortune to get a new one.

On a different, but still security related, note, years ago when I worked at a Saab dealer, I had managed to buy my 1st Saab, an old 99. I spoke to a mechanic about overcoming the problem of the locks freezing in winter. He told me to just leave the car unlocked!. That's what he did with his 900 turbo, said because the ignition key locked the car in reverse gear, it wasn't easy to steal one.

Close - we had two Puntos, Fiat supply them with a red 'master' key and two blue regular keys. As you say, all are uniquely linked to the immobiliser. Lose the blue keys = fine, just take the red key to a Fiat dealer and get a new blue key for £20.

Lose all three keys = £800 for a new immobiliser. In fairness to Fiat, you'd have to be extremely unlucky, or as thick as mince, to lose all 3 keys. And never buy a Fiat from the late 90s through to late 2000s without the red key, unless you negotiate a £1000 discount.

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - gordonbennet

A risk you take when you buy any modern vehicle with only one key, increasing the risk massively by choosing a grey import...as some may have found most Toyota dealers do or did not get involved with greys even to the point of the parts dept not being interested, the exceptions being some large 4x4's where the spec is usually simple and reasonably universal.

No one with any sense would rely only on one coded key, i have bought cars with one key but another is the first priority, i suspect the key transponder for the vehicle in question could have been copied onto another Toyota blank for reasonable cost by most competent key specialists, its once the key is lost you are in trouble.

As for home key security, well many of us have already, others will in due course, come to the conclusion that the once peaceful relatively safe Jerusalem of an island we were fortunate to live on (with all its previous faults) is no longer the idyll that we enjoyed as children, we are living through irreversible changes to our society, we no longer enjoy a fit for purpose law enforcement service able to deal effectively with hoodlums and others who wish us harm, so for our own very survival we have to make ourselves as secure as possible by whatever means we are prepared to take.

Edited by gordonbennet on 20/08/2017 at 08:42

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - FP

Aren't we supposed to be grateful for developments which have made cars increasingly difficult to steal?

This is just the logical outcome of such changes. As GB says, if you have only one key, you get another pronto. And if you buy a car with one key I would expect to pay a lower price.

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - Wackyracer

I'm not so sure the 'grey import' has any real implication here, plenty of cases of people with UK spec cars finding themselves in a similar situation when losing the last or only key they had.

Like GB said, if you have a car with only one key, a spare key has got to be the first priority of things to do.

One of the chaps at work dropped the keys when getting out of one of the Daf's, managed to put the key top back together after it had come apart from it's fall and thought nothing of it until an hour later when he tried to start the truck and found he couldn't. The transponder chip from the key had come out.

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - badbusdriver

The transit connect I use for my work came with one key only. I did think about getting another, but to get a proper one would cost a fortune. I could get a key cut, but was told it would only open the door, not start the van. I've had it nearly 7.5 years now, so touchwood and all that............!

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - colinh

On my second Toyota hybrid - both were provided with two sets of keys (the latest one has "smart entry", so the "key" is for emergency use only, if the battery is flat). They also supply a separate metal key number plate

Seems like another social media story that gets recorded by Google, and forever becomes gospel - probably be a Daily Mail article next week written by their Mumbai-based "journalists"

Edited by colinh on 20/08/2017 at 11:54

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - TedCrilly

There is of course another side to the coin.

If the manufacturers don't employ sophisticated security systems within their products the car insurance companies won't touch them.

So yeah, make them easy to hotwire and watch their profits drop......as if that's going to happen!

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - Avant

I would have thought that most spouses / partners with two cars drive each other's from time to time. I'd never consider buying a car without two keys. So far all of mine have been so equipped, but it's a good tip to ask about it before committing to a purchase deal.

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - Cyd

This is nothing new:

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=5690

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - Bilboman

As an unexpected spinoff from this technology, it occurs to me that it won't be too long before the cars we drive (together with the Big Brother in the sky) will all know exactly who has been driving and when and where. "Motoring by Google" if you wlll. With individually programmable keys (one per driver) or even - horror of horrors - a "driver profile" to log into each time we take the wheel, the days of "35 in a 30 zone? Wasn't me, mate - prove it!" will soon come to an end.
Taking this even further, I predict that biometrics for driver behaviour (reaction time, road positioning, patterns of acceleration, wheel movements as well as the easy-to-measure markers such as weight, height and build) will make it possible to pinpoint which joyriding, car stealing scumbag was at the wheel at any given time - as well as the more or less law-abiding Joe and Jill Public - in just the same way that radio operators could (apparently) recognise a particular hand transmitting on the Morse code key in so many WW2 films.
You read it here first!

Edited by Bilboman on 05/09/2017 at 13:29

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - bolt

Taking this even further, I predict that biometrics for driver behaviour (reaction time, road positioning, patterns of acceleration, wheel movements as well as the easy-to-measure markers such as weight, height and build) will make it possible to pinpoint which joyriding, car stealing scumbag was at the wheel at any given time

Most of that is already here, and now they have built AI into microchips biometrics it will come even quicker so when a car is knicked it can take over control, rather than a person do it when a tracker finds the car

Toyota - Technology too smart for itself - argybargy

My previous car, a 2007 Focus, only ever had one active key. I never worried too much about losing it, because it came with a blank which I assumed was a "master" that gave me access to a way of reprogramming a replacement. I also assumed, whether rightly or wrongly, that once I'd worked my way through all the US clips on Youtube and found a relevant UK one, I could find out how to do that without spending too much money.

Interesting to note that it might not be so straightforward as it was with my son's Rover, where to programme a key you just turned this, pressed that, stood on your head for two minutes and hey presto: a working key.

 

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