Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Warning

Recently a cyclist forced a driver to sweve to avoid hitting him.

The car driver ended up colliding with a parked car. The cyclists looked back and knew he had caused the accident, but did not stop. If a driver did that it would be a Failure to Stop and be fined. Why should the car driver, claim on his insurance?. Cyclists should carry road insurance too.

The cyclist lobby in recent years have been millitant, they want drivers who cause cyclist accidents to be sent to jail, but they no placed no demands on fellow cyclists to improve standards. Cyclist will jump lights, behave unpredicatably on the road, have no ligting at night, wear dark clothing making harder to spot them.

Why should n't cyclists be forced to pass cycling tests?. This way, cyclists will behave in a predictable way. It would avoid deaths.

Cyclist should wear yellow wests and have numbers printed on the back, so if they jump lights or cause accidents, they are identifiable.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

Recently a cyclist forced a driver to sweve to avoid hitting him.

How?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Terry W

Cyclists are superior beings, a protected species, and neither deserve nor need regulation.

Stories of jumping lights, riding on pavements, selfishly holding up motorised vehicles, darting in and out of queues etc are obviously unjust with little or no foundation.

No legislation should be introduced or enforced which may infringe their personal rights - high vis clothing, lights (an unjustfiable expense), riding overloaded with two to a bike, having insurance in case of damage or injury to a third party, consuming alcohol and riding blind drunk etc etc.

If you don't subscribe to this, the reality is that the green lobby will defend the lycra clad and sweaty, and the police don't have the time to pursue miscreants even if legislated.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - jc2

Get a Dashcam.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Wackyracer

I won't get into the argument as I know how these go but, I will just state on thing.

A cyclist who crashed into a parked and unoccupied van died from his injuries, news headline "Cyclist dies after being hit by van".

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - badbusdriver

Cyclists are superior beings, a protected species, and neither deserve nor need regulation.

Stories of jumping lights, riding on pavements, selfishly holding up motorised vehicles, darting in and out of queues etc are obviously unjust with little or no foundation.

No legislation should be introduced or enforced which may infringe their personal rights - high vis clothing, lights (an unjustfiable expense), riding overloaded with two to a bike, having insurance in case of damage or injury to a third party, consuming alcohol and riding blind drunk etc etc.

If you don't subscribe to this, the reality is that the green lobby will defend the lycra clad and sweaty, and the police don't have the time to pursue miscreants even if legislated.

Well I guess cars, vans, buses and trucks which pass dangerously close to cyclists, cut them up, pull out in front of them must also be a myth. Indeed, the broken collarbone I suffered when a car pulled on to a roundabout right in front of me was also a figment of my imagination?.

I know that there are plenty of idiotic cyclists out there, I had plenty of experience with those types when I was a bus driver, but to imply, as you seem to be, that it is a one sided issue is just naive. There are just as many, if not more, inconsiderate drivers as cyclists.

There are no details of the story the OP refers to, so with that in mind, I'd be inclined to think that there was a reason for the cyclist to swerve, such as a car door being opened, or possibly an enormous pot hole (of which there are plenty). And again, without knowing any details, the fact that the car driver hit a parked car suggests it is a built up area with a speed limit of 30mph, possibly less. So why was the driver not giving the cyclist enough room so they could brake and avoid having an accident?.

Yes, it could be entirely the cyclists fault, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions.

For the record, I do think that there should be a test for cyclists (not just cycling proficiency), but how would it be enforced?. And I also feel that cyclists should also have insurance (many already do), but again, how would that be enforced?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Vitesse6

I once had a woman turn right in front of me such that my bike wheel hit her rear passenger side door. When I suggested that she open her eyes whilst driving she demanded to know why I hadn't given way as she had right of way as she was in a car.

How could you police cyclist insurance and licencing, they can't even manage that for cars which are readily identifiable?

A little mutual respect and consideration would go a long way.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Warning

> There are no details of the story the OP refers to, so with that in mind, I'd be inclined to think that there was a reason for the cyclist to swerve

Just because I did not give details, does n't mean the cyclist was not at fault.

I was hesitant, as I did not witness the accident, but it was explained to me by the driver. I went to the scene of the accident. I saw the damage to the car.

The cyclist was on riding on the pavement on a residential road. He jumped onto to the road without looking out for other road users. The pavement was narrowed by 50%, as the utilities had dug the pavement and the road. The pavement was apssable by cyclist and pedestrian, but it was narrow. The works was correctly cordined off.

The cyclist, probably to maintain his speed decided to jump on the road, rather then navigate through the narrowed pavement.

The driver hit a parked car to avoid him.

The cyclist did look back, he knew he had caused it.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - badbusdriver

> There are no details of the story the OP refers to, so with that in mind, I'd be inclined to think that there was a reason for the cyclist to swerve

Just because I did not give details, does n't mean the cyclist was not at fault.

I was hesitant, as I did not witness the accident, but it was explained to me by the driver. I went to the scene of the accident. I saw the damage to the car.

The cyclist was on riding on the pavement on a residential road. He jumped onto to the road without looking out for other road users. The pavement was narrowed by 50%, as the utilities had dug the pavement and the road. The pavement was apssable by cyclist and pedestrian, but it was narrow. The works was correctly cordined off.

The cyclist, probably to maintain his speed decided to jump on the road, rather then navigate through the narrowed pavement.

The driver hit a parked car to avoid him.

The cyclist did look back, he knew he had caused it.

How do you know the driver was telling the truth?.

Assuming you don't know the driver was telling the truth, here is another possible scenario. The driver of the car is dawdling along, not really paying attention, the cyclist on the pavement see's the pavement is closed ahead, looks to the road, see's a gap, possibly a small one granted, but goes for it. Meanwhile, car driver gets such a shock at a cyclist suddenly appearing in front of them, they over react, yanking the steering wheel and crash into a parked car, when they may well have just needed to lift off the throttle or tap the brakes?.

Unless you know for a fact that the driver is telling the truth (and how could you, unless you witness what happened?) there are no facts. Just one half of the parties involved, who may have motive for blaming the cyclist.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

The cyclist was on riding on the pavement on a residential road. He jumped onto to the road without looking out for other road users. The pavement was narrowed by 50%, as the utilities had dug the pavement and the road. The pavement was apssable by cyclist and pedestrian, but it was narrow. The works was correctly cordined off.

So driver either (a) failed to observe cyclist and street works or (b) observed them but failed to anticipate possibility of cyclist departing pavement for road. Doesn't absolve cyclist completely but is illustrative of how accidents are caused by failure to look>think>plan.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

The cyclist was on riding on the pavement on a residential road. He jumped onto to the road without looking out for other road users. The pavement was narrowed by 50%, as the utilities had dug the pavement and the road. The pavement was apssable by cyclist and pedestrian, but it was narrow. The works was correctly cordined off.

So driver either (a) failed to observe cyclist and street works or (b) observed them but failed to anticipate possibility of cyclist departing pavement for road. Doesn't absolve cyclist completely but is illustrative of how accidents are caused by failure to look>think>plan.

By both involved. Anyway, cyclist could have stopped.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

This way, cyclists will behave in a predictable way.

You mean like car drivers?

Cyclist should wear yellow wests and have numbers printed on the back, so if they jump lights or cause accidents, they are identifiable.

Have you heard of cloned cars/false plates? How much more easy is it to make a false yellow west?

Before making policies and laws to enforce them it's a *really* good idea to think through practicalities.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Avant

This doesn't need to degenerate into a slanging match for and against cyclists. The accident in Warning's OP could have equally been caused by, say, a pedestrian stepping into the road or an idiot opening their car door without looking (in the latter case maybe better to hit the door than swerve too far).

I'm not normally in favour of increases in legislation, but it could be a good idea to require cyclists to wear helmets and hi-vis jackets or at least diagonal belts. Basic 3rd-party insurance might be a possibility but hard to enforce.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - RaineMan

Many years ago my parents made me take the cycling proficiency test. They had got me a new bike when I went to senior school and wanted me to be safe as the intention was I cycle the three miles to school. Riding on the pavement was a no no!

These days parents have a bizarre mindset. Whilst I do not object to toddlers cycling on the pavement family groups should not being doing so! Then these children cannot cycle any distance to school so we get the phenonium of the school run. However, now we are in the summer holidays these same children are cycling wherever it takes their fancy, often without helmets and without lights (after dusk). With this start they become the arrogant cycle warriors of tomorrow. The more it goes on the harder it will be to cure.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

This very subject has been discussed at length on here within the last 12 months. Nothing will happen until changes in legislation are made. Drivers of any motorised vehicle could have insurnace included in a their poliicy to cover them for riding a bike. But what of children, students? As for licences are we going to make children have those? I don't think so.

My views on traceability, of cyclsists who commit offences, have been made in the past, and views on the wearing of hi-viz apparel. As an aside I was recently at a pelican crossing in a local city. I crossed the road while a cyclist on either side waited, as I walked across one cyclist started to move while the lights were against him on red. The other cyclist said to him "You are not going to go are you? You give us cyclists a bad name". The law breaking one continued. The law abiding one had lights, a cycle helmet and hi-viz waistcoat. The other had nothing to help save his life, not even a brain!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Terry W

I appreciate some motorists can be thoughless and intolerant of bikers.

But the sad fact is that cycling is a hugely dangerous activity - on a par with paragliding, high mountain ascents etc. A 10mph coming together with a car can be fatal or life changing - the car and occupants suffering only minor harm. The quickest way to reduce road deaths and seriously injured by 10% + woluld be to ban cycling!

Legislation is needed to ensure all cyclists wear high vis clothing, have passed a basic training course, carry insurance for third party damage, do not cycle incapable through drink or drugs, and conform to the rules of the road.

Any cyclist involved in an accident who has not taken these common sense basic precautions should have only limited claim to compensation from other road users unless they also contributed to the accident - in which case any claim would be a max of 50% of the potential.

.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

But the sad fact is that cycling is a hugely dangerous activity - on a par with paragliding, high mountain ascents etc.

Utter nonesense. Cycling has roughly same risk as being a pedestrian. Perhaps slightly more risk than a sober pedestrian but WAY less than walking home after a skinful.

I used my eponymous folding bike in Central London for 15years with nothing worse than a bruise on my bum. The accident that put me in hospital happened on the station car park at home and didn't involve another vehicle.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 12/08/2017 at 21:40

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

Bromtonaut, actually cyclists appear to be even lower risk than pedestrians for road fatalities, although this does vary on the country.

ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/sites/roadsafet...f

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - oldroverboy.

Legislation is needed to ensure all cyclists wear high vis clothing, have passed a basic training course, carry insurance for third party damage, do not cycle incapable through drink or drugs, and conform to the rules of the road.

My brother would not get a driving licence as he did not want to get "done" for drink driving in the 70's. Now has not drank for 15 years , lives in a small town..no licence and stuck!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

It will never happen, any legislation directed towards cyclists will be very difficult, almost impossible to police.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

It will never happen, any legislation directed towards cyclists will be very difficult, almost impossible to police.

Where there's a will...........

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - oldroverboy.

It will never happen, any legislation directed towards cyclists will be very difficult, almost impossible to police.

Where there's a will...........

Where there is a will and a way there will be a jobsworthy!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Chrome

Cyclists are on the road by right and motor vehicles by licence. Not a lot of folk are aware of that. Horse riders as well. Cycling should be encouraged as it can be relatively inexpensive and is most definitely green. I think the BMA reported that the health benefits of cycling far outweigh the disadvantages. As for cyclists and no insurance; a far greater worry are the numbers of uninsured / unlicensed people driving on the roads. I pesonally have no wish to be forced to wear high viz or a helmet. When I do choose to wear these items I do not necessarily feel 'safer'. As a long-term road cyclist what is a major concern are ridiculously bright / dazzling DRL's and drivers who believe they can cope with operating smartphones and in-car 'infotainment' systems whilst on the move. For the record I am a pedestrian / cyclist / motorcyclist / car driver / light goods vehicle driver.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

When I do choose to wear these items I do not necessarily feel 'safer'. As a long-term road cyclist what is a major concern are ridiculously bright / dazzling DRL's

You may not feel 'safer' but you may in fact be (statistically) safer.

As to the DRLs, I tend to agree, but even more irritating are the powerful flashing LEDs that some cyclists have adopted, possibly in retaliation?

It's at least thirty years since I cycled regularly, in the old days when one had a good chance of staying undamaged when riding on country A-roads. I do remember almost being squashed between a stone wall and an overtaking lorry, when a student.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

As to the DRLs, I tend to agree, but even more irritating are the powerful flashing LEDs that some cyclists have adopted, possibly in retaliation?

And there's the difference. About the most that a cyclist can do to somebody in a car or lorry is to irritate them - although most are just winding themselves up and blaming the cyclist, because they didn't set off soon enough and think they are being "held up" for a few seconds.

It makes a great deal of sense to wear contrasting/hi viz clothing, and to use flashing lights. The angular size of a cycle (or motorcycle) is much smaller than a car and that leads to the 'smidsy' events we are all familiar with.

Here it is yet again.

www.slobc.org/safety/documents/road-survival-guide...f

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

This doesn't need to degenerate into a slanging match for and against cyclists. The accident in Warning's OP could have equally been caused by, say, a pedestrian stepping into the road ...

I'm not normally in favour of increases in legislation, but it could be a good idea to require cyclists to wear helmets and hi-vis jackets or at least diagonal belts. Basic 3rd-party insurance might be a possibility but hard to enforce.

Yes a ped could have done that, and in fact a cyclist on a pavement is nearer to being a ped than a serious cyclist. Make all peds wear numbers and have TP insurance? No? So deal with cycling on pavements.

There's some absolutely typical anti-cyclist prejudice in this thread.

What the cycle-haters overlook is that cyclists have a serious vested interest in not colliding with cars. They don't need laws to make them careful, cyclist v. car is a very uneven contest. A few seconds thought and ignorant car drivers (most cyclists are also drivers BTW) would understand many of the cyclist behaviours they criticise.

I have no patience with anti-cyclist rants from people in metal safety cells who frequently make no effort to show proper consideration for other, more vulnerable road users.

Edited by Manatee on 12/08/2017 at 20:38

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

A change in attitude is what is needed......from both sides!!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

For the record, I'm not anti-cyclist, have a bike and use it when I can. I'd just like cyclists to stay alive, some have NO idea how vulnerable they are, especially when they behave like idiots. Idiotic drivers have some metalwork surrounding them instead, so a bump is invariably just a bump. When cyclists realise a bump could be a wooden/chipboard box perhaps they'll learn to ride responsibly, and a cycle helmet could save them from a brain injury, oh well, it's their life, or not, as the case might be.

Some liken pedestrians to cyclists, invalid to do so, cyclists are responsible for a wheeled mode of transport, just like motoriists.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - oldroverboy.

When cyclists realise a bump could be a wooden/chipboard box perhaps they'll learn to ride responsibly, and a cycle helmet could save them from a brain injury, oh well, it's their life, or not, as the case might be.

Most cycle helmets are useless!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

When cyclists realise a bump could be a wooden/chipboard box perhaps they'll learn to ride responsibly, and a cycle helmet could save them from a brain injury, oh well, it's their life, or not, as the case might be.

Most cycle helmets are useless!

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/sep/22/bicyc...s

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - argybargy

Enforcement of cycle licences and insurance would not be possible.

The police struggle enough as it is to enforce the law against errant motorists without having to chase "pedestrians on bikes" as well.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

Enforcement of cycle licences and insurance would not be possible.

The police struggle enough as it is to enforce the law against errant motorists without having to chase "pedestrians on bikes" as well.

With number plates ANPR cameras would catch them, no need for police to chase them.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - johncyprus
Back to the original post, , It sounds to me that the driver was driving at a speed beyond his abilities. When I see a cyclist or other vulnerable road user or I approach road works I reduce my speed just in case, I haven't had to crash into a stationary vehicle yet.

Most serious cyclists have 3rd party insurance voluntarily. As the Police struggle to enforce the law regarding the registration and insurance of motor vehicles which can kill and maim, lets not burden them with the small problem of the bicycle.
Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T
Back to the original post, , It sounds to me that the driver was driving at a speed beyond his abilities. When I see a cyclist or other vulnerable road user or I approach road works I reduce my speed just in case, I haven't had to crash into a stationary vehicle yet.

No-one has yet suggested the possibility of that driver being on the phone (or the cyclist, for that matter) :-)

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - bolt

Cyclists and certain drivers are a law unto themselves regardless of what opinions people have of them, I do not see this attitude changing in the foreseeable future

and if the police force is reduced even more, which there was talk of, then law breaking is going to rise and peoples attitudes to wrong doing will get worse because they know they will not get caught

as for cyclists having insurance, how would it be enforced as our police just do not have enough people to do the job. like everything else.. government cuts back but expects twice the work out of whats left

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

While we are at it can we also do something about errant and irresponsible horse riders?

Particularly the one who, earlier this morning has allowed their steed to discharge the remenents of its, very harty by the look of things, last meal on the pavemant (NOT the carriageway) directly across the entrance to my drive.

And they wonder why they face such hostilities!!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

While we are at it can we also do something about errant and irresponsible horse riders? Particularly the one who, earlier this morning has allowed their steed to discharge the remenents of its, very harty by the look of things, last meal on the pavement (NOT the carriageway) directly across the entrance to my drive.

I presume this query was tongue-in-cheek. I don't think many riders are able to control the urges of their mount's bowel, which is why many continental tourist-towns (like Bruges) fit cr*p-collectors to their smart carriages, to save frequent street cleaning.

I doubt that your offender had deliberately targeted your driveway. (reminds me of SWMBO's Tyneside grandfather, who allegedly used to collect such offerings in his flat-cap, to put on his garden or allotment)

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

Horse muck is fairly inoffensive stuff, as it goes, certainly compared with dog muck which most people are about 100 times more likely to get on their shoes.

I was a bit put out recently when I stood in an enormous pile on the pavement outside the pub, in the dark, recently. I was just so happy that it wasn't dog s***e.

Horse riders too have a lot to put up with from ignorant and selfish drivers.

Edited by Manatee on 13/08/2017 at 12:41

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

My point was, and also it would seem you missed was that the deposit was on the actual pavement, directly in front of my driveway making it impossle to remove my car without disturbing it. Had it been in the road instead of inches from my curtledge it would have been of no concern.

Uvoidable...yes. Courteous and respectful....no.

The matter will be highlighted at the next parish meeting with representatives of the police and local council.

Please refer to rule 54 of the highway code and the relevant part of the highways act before making further comment.in defence of action I have mentioned.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

My point was, and also it would seem you missed was that the deposit was on the actual pavement, directly in front of my driveway making it impossle to remove my car without disturbing it. Had it been in the road instead of inches from my curtledge it would have been of no concern.

You have to be joking? Could you not have deployed a garden spade and either used the material on your plot (if you have one) or moved it to the road where 'it would have been of no concern' ? (other people's concern presumably)

Parish meeting? Police ? Don't make me larf.

Edited by Andrew-T on 13/08/2017 at 15:20

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

This has been a long standing issue in my neighbourhood affecting not just myself but many others.

Can I ask why you believe I and others others, should on a regular basis, forced to suffer the unpleasantness and inconvenience caused by someone else's ignorance and negligence?

Had you taken my advice to look further into the matter you will see that in allowing horses onto the pavement and in allowing fouling of the pavement laws are being broken. On that basis are we being unreasonable in bringing our concerns to the attention of the authorities and asking that something is done?

We are in no way seeking stiff penalties for those concerned, in fact we hope all that is needed is a visit to the local livery yard by a PCSO and a friendly chat with the teenage girls who we believe are both responsible and unaware of the legal obligations.

Is this unreasonable behaviour? I think not.

Edited by TedCrilly on 13/08/2017 at 15:50

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

Can I ask why you believe I and others, should on a regular basis, be forced to suffer the unpleasantness and inconvenience caused by someone else's ignorance and negligence?

On that basis are we being unreasonable in bringing our concerns to the attention of the authorities and asking that something is done?

I don't think I said anything about 'what I believed'. I just implied that as a horse tends to dump whenever or wherever it gets the urge, the only way to prevent a recurrence might be to ban horses from your street - where, as has been said, they have an ancient right to be, like pedestrians and cyclists. 'Forced to suffer' - who by? It's just one of the charms of the environment where you live.

In reporting what you see as a public nuisance, no, you aren't being unreasonable. Just optimistic, subject to my point above.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

Again you appear to be overlooking the fact it is ilegal to allow a horse onto a pavement.

You have commented and highlighted on all but this fact.

Your opinion of those who break this law.......please?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

Your opinion of those who break this law.......please?

I have no opinion about those you refer to. I just feel that it must be a very occasional nuisance which can be dealt with simply in a very short time, without resorting to law or making inflated waves, and probably local enemies as well.

Admittedly I don't have to live with the problem, but if I did, (a) I might quite like horses passing my front door and (b) I would not mind doing the necessary on the rare occasion when it happened. Life is too short to get worked up like that.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

Point taken Ted.

I might just raise the matter of the horse muck outside the pub with the Parish Council to see what reaction I get. Clearly it is their responsibility:)

Actually I know the person responsible or, more correctly, the owner of the horse responisble. I have already moaned at her (the owner, not the horse).

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TedCrilly

While not the direct responsibility of the PC, it is their responsibility to deal with minor community issues and grievances raised by their parishioners, especially when it can be argued these issues are in fact illegal.

Edited by TedCrilly on 13/08/2017 at 19:52

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

After reading my Highway Code, I realise that Ted's complaint (not originally obvious to me) is really about horses ridden on the pavement. The dunghill was merely evidence of that, and almost irrelevant.

I stand by my earlier attitude - Ted is 'in the right', but going to law may do as much harm as good.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - oldroverboy.

Point taken Ted.

I might just raise the matter of the horse muck outside the pub with the Parish Council to see what reaction I get. Clearly it is their responsibility:)

Actually I know the person responsible or, more correctly, the owner of the horse responisble. I have already moaned at her (the owner, not the horse).

And the horse said neigh.. it wasnae me!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - badbusdriver

Cyclists and certain drivers are a law unto themselves regardless of what opinions people have of them, I do not see this attitude changing in the foreseeable future

and if the police force is reduced even more, which there was talk of, then law breaking is going to rise and peoples attitudes to wrong doing will get worse because they know they will not get caught

as for cyclists having insurance, how would it be enforced as our police just do not have enough people to do the job. like everything else.. government cuts back but expects twice the work out of whats left

"Cyclists and certain drivers are a law unto themselves"?,

So you're saying all cyclists are a law unto themselves?,

really?,

all of them?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - bolt

Cyclists and certain drivers are a law unto themselves regardless of what opinions people have of them, I do not see this attitude changing in the foreseeable future

and if the police force is reduced even more, which there was talk of, then law breaking is going to rise and peoples attitudes to wrong doing will get worse because they know they will not get caught

as for cyclists having insurance, how would it be enforced as our police just do not have enough people to do the job. like everything else.. government cuts back but expects twice the work out of whats left

"Cyclists and certain drivers are a law unto themselves"?,

So you're saying all cyclists are a law unto themselves?,

really?,

all of them?

Ok, I should have said certain before cyclists as they are both as bad as each other.

I personaly have seen more cyclists trying stupid maneuvers than any driver could, but then there are good and bad wherever you are, but still don`t understand why most never use a cyle lane made for them at great expense but never use, they would rather hold up the traffic and usually do?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

<< ... still don`t understand why most never use a cyle lane made for them at great expense but never use, they would rather hold up the traffic and usually do? >>

I always ask the same question about those joggers who insist on running in the 'gutter' when there is plenty of reserved space for pedestrians. Are they avoiding other (usually absent) pedestrians?

Like the one on Putney Bridge recently ...

Edited by Andrew-T on 13/08/2017 at 15:17

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

k, I should have said certain before cyclists as they are both as bad as each other.

but still don`t understand why most never use a cyle lane made for them at great expense but never use, they would rather hold up the traffic and usually do?

As ever when this question is asked.....

The usual reason is poor design and/or implementation of the lanes. Examples are sending you round slow and circuitous routes through junctions, frequent intructions to dismount and lanes that end dangerously just where you need them most. Another is poor surfacing as in lane from here to next village; loose grit mixed with broken glass and occasional top dressing of dog poo. Passable OK on a mountain bike and with care on a Brompton but lethal on anything with 27*1.25 or 700C road wheels.

EDIT: Example here goo.gl/maps/NA124cGbxHT2. Going straight on towards the new building on left rationally, and assumnig you're half competent on the road, you'd follow the bus and integrate yourself into traffic. The cycle route goes along pavement (see arrow and blue shared route sign) then through THREE 'toucan' crossings to join the road.

Edited by Bromptonaut on 13/08/2017 at 15:56

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - thirts

Approximately 9 people every day are killed by car/van/lorrry drivers, by comparison in the last year no one has been kiiled by a cyclists.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

Approximately 9 people every day are killed by car/van/lorrry drivers, by comparison in the last year no one has been kiiled by a cyclists.

Exactly. Where so many people get the idea that cyclists are all bent on self destruction I don't know. 90% of what they are criticised for is to do with staying safe, including the occasional beaking of rules designed with cars in mind.

Edited by Manatee on 13/08/2017 at 12:43

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

Approximately 9 people every day are killed by car/van/lorrry drivers, by comparison in the last year no one has been kiiled by a cyclists.

Exactly. Where so many people get the idea that cyclists are all bent on self destruction I don't know. 90% of what they are criticised for is to do with staying safe, including the occasional beaking of rules designed with cars in mind.

Ah yes, riding down one way streets while traffic drives towards them, jumping lights, dropping off pavements in front of motorists without warning or even looking, riding out of side roads infront of motorists, not putting there arm out to indicatte change of direction............oh yes, very safe.................NOT. That must be the 90% you refer to.
Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

Approximately 9 people every day are killed by car/van/lorrry drivers, by comparison in the last year no one has been kiiled by a cyclists.

Nine too many. I don't think any shoplifters have killed anyone yet they are still dealt with by authorities when caught. Breaking the law is breaking the law and those doing so should be brought to account.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - expat
Why should n't cyclists be forced to pass cycling tests?. This way, cyclists will behave in a predictable way. It would avoid deaths.

Cyclist should wear yellow wests and have numbers printed on the back, so if they jump lights or cause accidents, they are identifiable.

Pedestrians have been known to behave in unpredictable and dangerous ways. Looking at their phones while crossing the road for example. Perhaps these good ideas could apply to them also. Pass a test and have insurance before using the pavement. Wear a flourescent hat with a number on it so they can be identified if they jay walk. Or a really radical idea - maybe we could all just use common sense and look out for other people. After all we know all the rest of the people using the road are dangerous idiots and have to be watched out for. Perhaps we could do that for pedestrians and cyclists also.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bianconeri
Unfortunately we have created a country where a minority think they can do exactly as they please. It manifests itself as stupid, purposefully dangerous driving, cycling, even jogging. Quite why this country is now populated by a nasty faction is beyond me but I fear it has much to do with the sense of entitlement that seems to be fostered from an early age.

I have witnessed two accidents in the last year, both while on foot and both caused by someone choosing to do something stupid. Incidentally, both perpatrators they chose to blame everyone else for their actions and, in the second case, lie to the police.

First incident - roundabout near where I worked, at the end of a dual carriageway. Traffic light controls because everyone used to block the exits. Seldom a queue of more than half a dozen cars / one change of lights. Range Rover driver came down the left lane and turned right hitting another car who was in the correct lane. The driver, who had ignored five 'left only' signs in her lane, lived within a mile of the roundabout and clearly knew exactly what she was doing. Luckily there were half a dozen witnesses to her stupid attempt to save 10 seconds because she was too important to join the queue.

Second incident - cyclist shot a red light and turned right to go the wrong way down a one way street, hit a van which was stopped waiting for lights to change. Reported van driver for knocking him off his bike. Two sets of CCTV and two witnesses said otherwise.

Local community speed group caught over 200 drivers exceeding a 30mph limit on a C road in one day last summer. The sense of anger and vitriol from the drivers who think speed limits don't apply to them has to heard to be believed.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I'm also a multi vehicle user. I believe in France cycles have a little sticker to show they have the compulsory insurance.

Out cycling today and was indeed riding on some wide pavements. Afaik, from the white markings, they are for both pedestrians and cyclists. Unfortunately a car was parked on the pavement so as to obstruct me. Elsewhere on my ride the dedicated tracks are shared with pedestrians and cyclists. They could be described as pavements in many places. I take care when pedestrians are around and ride with caution. Especially when those with headphones do not show any signs of awareness.

Third party insurance provided by the government ,for everyone, please. Just like in NZ. Yes it would cost.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

Can you imagine the extent of abuse of a universal third party insurance system in the UK?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bianconeri

I'm also a multi vehicle user. I believe in France cycles have a little sticker to show they have the compulsory insurance.

Out cycling today and was indeed riding on some wide pavements. Afaik, from the white markings, they are for both pedestrians and cyclists. Unfortunately a car was parked on the pavement so as to obstruct me. Elsewhere on my ride the dedicated tracks are shared with pedestrians and cyclists. They could be described as pavements in many places. I take care when pedestrians are around and ride with caution. Especially when those with headphones do not show any signs of awareness.

Third party insurance provided by the government ,for everyone, please. Just like in NZ. Yes it would cost.

You remind me that we have a few of these along a tow path locally, at a guess 12 feet wide. It works really well until you get people walking 6 abreast trying to annoy cyclists or cyclists who think that hollering'coming through' means 'get out of my way because my Strava time is far more important than your safety'. A society where everyone seems to want their rights but no one takes any responsibility.
Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - jamie745

Perfect world I'd rather they be banned completely rather than have insurance or a licence, but failing that they should have to do something to show they are a competant road user.

Unfortunately in this hysterical country where facts are a devalued currency, any attempt to impose sanity would be seen as an 'attack' on cyclists.

It's been fine to 'attack' motorists for the last 20 years unhindered, but that's okay because that's done in the name of 'educating' rather than 'attacking.'

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - bolt

Perfect world I'd rather they be banned completely rather than have insurance or a licence, but failing that they should have to do something to show they are a competant road user.

Unfortunately in this hysterical country where facts are a devalued currency, any attempt to impose sanity would be seen as an 'attack' on cyclists.

It's been fine to 'attack' motorists for the last 20 years unhindered, but that's okay because that's done in the name of 'educating' rather than 'attacking.'

I`m afraid thats the way of the world now, but even if cyclists had licences and insurance would they still carry on riding the way some of them do, I suspect they would!

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Avant

I said earlier "This doesn't need to degenerate into a slanging match for and against cyclists."

It's becoming so, and the thread will close if it gets any worse. The 'way of the world', to use Bolt's expression, is that there are inconsiderate people on two wheels, four wheels, or any number of wheels, or just two feet. They annoy us all, but fortunately they're in a minority.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

Perfect world I'd rather they be banned completely rather than have insurance or a licence, but failing that they should have to do something to show they are a competant road user.

Most drivers have done 'something to show they are a competent road user', called a Driving Test. We all know that that competence is sometimes rather transitory, wearing off after maybe a few months. Talking of hysteria, banning all cyclists sounds rather a hysterical reaction too.

Edited by Andrew-T on 14/08/2017 at 00:28

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

All motor vehicle drivers ask for is a level playing field. If cyclists won't accept number plates, (some say there isn't room yet they can soon find room for panniers) let us be radical remove them from all vehicles. Most drivers would continue considerately and safely, not much would change.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

All motor vehicle drivers ask for is a level playing field. If cyclists won't accept number plates, (some say there isn't room yet they can soon find room for panniers) let us be radical remove them from all vehicles. Most drivers would continue considerately and safely, not much would change.

It's not something that would happen but for a cyclists' veto. Registration of motor vehicles was brought about because, by the early 20th century they were killing people and damaging property. There was also a need to facilitiate taxation so as to provide vehicle infrastructure.

If today's government wanted to introduce registration of cycles, licences or mandatory insurance it could do so. That it does not is simply down to fact that such a process would raise numerous practical difficulties and be costly without creating any real gain.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Andrew-T

It's perfectly possible to fit numberplates to bikes - it's been done for years in certain university towns. I suppose that might cause some cyclists to improve their behaviour, but probably not.

Talking of level playing fields, it is much easier to identify a person on a bike than it is to recognise who is behind the wheel ?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

It's perfectly possible to fit numberplates to bikes - it's been done for years in certain university towns. I suppose that might cause some cyclists to improve their behaviour, but probably not.

VArious plates or tags are used for bikes in either whole countries (eg Japan) or in the University example on private land. Most owe more to dealing with theft/lost property than to regulating behaviour on the road. A plate big enough to be read by cameras is obviously impractical. OK, some folks carry panniers but many types such as road machines, folders and MTB's lack even the facility for something size of a car's plate.

Article here covers subject from a mainly US perspective:

www.bikebiz.com/news/read/bicycle-licensing-for-du...1

Lots of places that had registration schemes have abolished them on grounds that cost was way out of proprtion to benefit.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Manatee

All motor vehicle drivers ask for is a level playing field. If cyclists won't accept number plates, (some say there isn't room yet they can soon find room for panniers) let us be radical remove them from all vehicles. Most drivers would continue considerately and safely, not much would change.

I don't think you speak on behalf of all drivers, certainly not me.

It can't be a level playing field because cycles are completely different from motor vehicles. If a cyclist bumps into your car the damage is nil to a scratch. If you hit a cyclist it can mean a death.

What I see in this thread is blind, unthinking prejudice, hatred even, against cyclists. I am used to this even from friends I respect, so it is not a surprise, but it is sickening and disappointing.

I have a good friend who rides [a horse] - they have to put up with the same sort of ignorant attitudes.

Edited by Manatee on 14/08/2017 at 11:06

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - bolt

Problem seems to be that more drivers these days do not appear to have the patience they used to have, even for pedestrians, some drivers are even nasty to other drivers, even learners now according to some, are too slow at making up their minds when to make a move at junctions/roundabouts

so it isnt just cyclists in the firing line, I think the pace of life has gotton too fast for some, whom, cannot take the stress and take it out on others

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - badbusdriver

All motor vehicle drivers ask for is a level playing field. If cyclists won't accept number plates, (some say there isn't room yet they can soon find room for panniers) let us be radical remove them from all vehicles. Most drivers would continue considerately and safely, not much would change.

Wow, what a shockingly ignorant statement!. So you want a level playing field FB?.OK, well let's rig up some sort of system whereby a motor vehicle driver, if he/she collides with a bicycle, gets inflicted similar injuries. Maybe we could fill the airbags with big heavy lumps of metal?. That would then be a level playing field with regards to the injury ratio.

Once that is sorted, we could then worry about less important stuff, like road craft.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TheGentlemanThug

Anyone who drives or rides on a public road should have insurance, a license and a roadworthy mode of transport.

End of.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - bolt

Anyone who drives or rides on a public road should have insurance, a license and a roadworthy mode of transport.

End of.

cyclists as well would be inpossible to police, we dont have enough cops to take care of car drivers let alone cyclists- put a few thousand more cops on the roads then it may be practical, but at the moment its total nonsense

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - focussed

"If today's government wanted to introduce registration of cycles, licences or mandatory insurance it could do so. That it does not is simply down to fact that such a process would raise numerous practical difficulties and be costly without creating any real gain."

What practical difficulties? There doesn't seem to be any practical difficulty adminstering the registration and taxation of mopeds, scooters, motorcycles and cars does there?

The real reason is that there is the evironmental b*lls*** that surrounds cycling and cyclists and the sanctimonious claim that they are "saving the world", such that the government shies away from regulating cycling and cyclists.

The plain fact is that a bicycle is quite capable of inflicting a couple of grands-worth of damage to a car, and the rider can just ride off with no sanction whatsoever.

If the leg powered two-wheeled fraternity want to be taken seriously, they should embrace the concept of registration and insurance. As they currently don't, I have to assume that they want to carry on being a constant parasitical presence on the road-demanding ever more expensive cycle lanes and road space - but being unwilling to contribute to the cost of it.

An example of the lunatic cycling fringe here:-

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/14/cyclist-killed.../

Edited by focussed on 14/08/2017 at 20:43

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - badbusdriver

A couple of grands worth of damage to a car is small change compared to the possibility of taking a life, which can easily be the case if a car hits a cyclist. Maybe you feel that your paintwork is more important.

Cycling may well not be 'saving the world', but they are certainly doing their bit to improve the very real air quality problems in big towns and cities. Then there is also the huge obesity problem that this counrty is facing, something which all of our kids and grand kids are going to end up paying for. So instead of whining about people who are doing what they can to help negate these problems, you should be applauding them. More people on bicycles = less cars, less cars = less polution = less city centre congestion = less obesity. Not really rocket science.

Funny how this isssue is much bigger in the UK than in other European countries. The selfish mentality of 'me first', seems much more prevalent here than, certainly Spain, France, Netherlands and Denmark to name a few.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Fishermans Bend

OK.

1. Bromptonaut, you write very sensibly, with much restraint given what you probably really feel when faced some of the comments here. You make fair comments, personally I think a square number plate, moped size, could be fitted. I appreciate there are logistical challenges to overcome regarding fitment but I'm sure they could be if necessary. What might not work elsewhere could work here.

2. Andrew T, The cyclist that inspired this thread was riding away from people, no valid description could be given to the police, a car driving away could traced by a number plate.

3. Manatee, I don't dislike cyclists, after all the whole family cycle at some time during the year. I'm baffled so many take unnessary risks.

4, badbusdriver, hope you are not one of those. Number plates, all about traceability. If cyclists don't want to be traced, motor vehicle users should be the same, that's the level playing field. No ignorance here. Perhaps there is in the bus! ;)

4. Focussed, that arrogant lad with no remorse should have the stongest punishment possible. What he did was incredibly rare - thankfully

5. I don't believe licences are necessary. Offenders of infringements would be required to go on educational training courses with a small fine to fund such a scheme. Fines could increase for repeat offenders and go towards creating more infrastructure for cyclists.

Horse riders! Who would want to drive such an unpredictable creature. If spooked it could throw and kill you.

I'm done here and won't be reading this thread any more. Time for Avant to close it?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TheGentlemanThug

A couple of grands worth of damage to a car is small change compared to the possibility of taking a life, which can easily be the case if a car hits a cyclist. Maybe you feel that your paintwork is more important.

No, my car's paintwork isn't more important, but why should I pay to get it fixed when someone else caused the damage?

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Bromptonaut

What practical difficulties? There doesn't seem to be any practical difficulty adminstering the registration and taxation of mopeds, scooters, motorcycles and cars does there?

The difficulties spelled out in this thread, which I can only assume you've not read in full and in the article I linked to.

The plain fact is that a bicycle is quite capable of inflicting a couple of grands-worth of damage to a car, and the rider can just ride off with no sanction whatsoever.

Possibly capable, but how often is it more than a scratch?

but being unwilling to contribute to the cost of it.

ALL TAXPAYERS CONTRIBUTE TO THESE COSTS. How difficult is it to understand that concept?

An example of the lunatic cycling fringe here:-

On the face of it I'd agree and of course his bike was breaking existing laws. We've only heard the prosecution's case so far though......

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - TheGentlemanThug

Anyone who drives or rides on a public road should have insurance, a license and a roadworthy mode of transport.

End of.

cyclists as well would be inpossible to police, we dont have enough cops to take care of car drivers let alone cyclists- put a few thousand more cops on the roads then it may be practical, but at the moment its total nonsense


That's no excuse.

Like drivers, you prey on the idea that illegal cyclists could be caught out at any moment. You don't attempt to catch everyone, you instil a sense of fear in them.

Edited by Bicycle_Repair_Man on 14/08/2017 at 22:18

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - bolt

you instil a sense of fear in them

Works well for drivers using mobile phones, I dont think, I`m sure cyclists will be just as worried ;)

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - jamie745

Avant wants to close the thread if it degenerates into throwing abuse at cyclists, because criticising cyclists is 'ignorant' and 'sickening' to quote another poster, but hurling abuse at motorists is absolutely fine?

As I said earlier, the UK is a country where facts are a devalued currency. Facts don't matter. There's one set of ideas, activities and outlooks which are 'correct, enlightened, educated' and another which are 'wrong, ignorant and bad.'

Cyclists are annoying. That's my view, I'm not apologising for it and the majority of people probably agree with me - that silent majority has had a lot of say in the last year or so at last!

Bicycles are pointless and they get in the way - and the people on them know they're in the way, as they shake their lycra clad a***s in front of a queue of 25 cars all forced to do 7mph behind them. It's not that they're not in the way - they are - it's that they don't care.

Now, in mitigation the situation is made worse by the simple fact that there's too many people, too many vehicles and not enough road left in this country. Cyclists are a minor irritation in comparison to that bigger issue, that they keep building billions of houses on towns and expecting 50-60 year old road networks to cope with it.

This country wasn't meant to have 70 million people and 34 million cars in it, but when our political leaders keep letting over 250,000 extra people (approx the population of Southampton) come to this country every year, this problem will only get worse.

Should cyclists be insured and have a licence? - Avant

What I said:

"This doesn't need to degenerate into a slanging match for and against cyclists."

What I'm quoted as saying:

"Avant wants to close the thread if it degenerates into throwing abuse at cyclists, because criticising cyclists is 'ignorant' and 'sickening' to quote another poster, but hurling abuse at motorists is absolutely fine?"

Enough.

 

Ask Honest John

Value my car