Toot Toot !! - hillman

The press has been fulminating about smart/slippery car salesmen who sell to young people with the minimum monthly payment and who never own the vehicle. Perhaps that explains/reinforces my prejudice about drivers, mainly young men, who toot the horn rather than think whether they are to blame for a bad situation - like the one who followed me through the traffic lights and tooted when I had to wait while the lights went onto red before I succeeded in turning right. I was second in line and the traffic was busy that day.

On another occasion my car was at the second fuel pump, I was paying for petrol in the kiosk and the driver at the front pump, having paid, drove away. A young man in a BMW X5 500 drove by my old car into the front pump position and filled up. I never was able to afford a car so expensive, let alone one with so oversize an engine. Do the BRs think that the young man was a victim of the s/s salesmen ? There used to be one of those irritating notices in the back widscreen of old cars, "I know it's old, but it's paid for".

Toot Toot !! - RobJP

Or maybe the bloke in the X5 founded his own business at the age of 18, now employs 500 people, and was just thinking "for goodness sake, can't the old duffer just hurry up, I've got a meeting coming up that could result in another 100 well-paid jobs being created"

Assumptions : ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME.

Thinking that ownership and/or age - or whether or not someone can afford a car or not - has any bearing on driving competence says more about your prejudices than it does about the driving ability of others.

Toot Toot !! - mss1tw

Or maybe the bloke in the X5 founded his own business at the age of 18, now employs 500 people, and was just thinking "for goodness sake, can't the old duffer just hurry up, I've got a meeting coming up that could result in another 100 well-paid jobs being created"

Assumptions : ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME.

Thinking that ownership and/or age - or whether or not someone can afford a car or not - has any bearing on driving competence says more about your prejudices than it does about the driving ability of others.

Is the atmoshpere on your planet mainly nitrous oxide, cos you're having a laugh

He was probably a drug dealer or part of our wonderful travelling community

If he was truly a Captain Of Industry, he would of course have had BO55 number plates, so the plebs knew to get out of his way

Toot Toot !! - gordonbennet

I must have the appearance of a drug dealer or other ne'er do well.

About as far from a captain of industry as its possible to get, i did however inherit my father's work ethic, and was pulled up aged 18 by the interpid boys in blue in my mk3 Zodiac, (for which i paid the princely sum of £60, it was my banger racing tow car) and the way to work, which they thoroughly searched for drugs, they were friendly enough though and told me that i was too young to have such a car, hence the fruitless search.

A few years later and i happened to overtake a pair of young detectives in my Rover 3500 P6 (think i paid about £350 for that one), who didn't like being overtaken (safely) and pulled me up, the senior one showing off to his mate abused me verbally for some 20 minutes with ripe foul language about my worthiness of having such a 'flash car' and threatened to call in a patrol car and have me nicked for dangerous driving unless i apologised, which i had to do or face a DD charge and loss of my HGV, his word against mine no contest, which being sole breadwinner would have ruined us...remember this is the 70's and bullies like these had free reign, being part Irish i knew i was lucky not to have been take away and sorted out in the cells, and trust me i've been at the receiving end of a police officer's repeated punches when aged 14 and didn't want a repeat, in the real world of those days you took the punishment deserved or not you never made a fuss and kept schtum.

I have no idea how the young chap can afford an X5, but jolly good luck to him.

Edited by gordonbennet on 14/07/2017 at 18:49

Toot Toot !! - bazza

Low interest rates and the advent of PCP allows many of us great unwashed to drive cars we previously could only dream of. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. It's not for me, as I prefer to run slightly older cars off the steep part of the depreciation curve, but certainly, for small cars, the numbers more or less add up, for me at least anything bigger doesn't. But I can see that it works for many. Certainly the likes of Mercedes seem to be doing very well judging by the numbers of new ones on the road. I guess they are chasing volume by offering a cheapened rival to the Focus/Astra, but you still get to drive behind the badge!

As for your X5 driver, it's live and let live, but the statistics tell us something like 80% or so of all new cars are financed.

Toot Toot !! - badbusdriver

As a window cleaner, I have noticed how much the ratio of car value to house value has changed over the last 8 years (which is how long I've been doing it), I guess this must be due the huge popularity of personal lease type schemes allowing people who otherwise couldn't afford a huge German SUV, to get one on their drive (and improve their social status?) . Seems odd though, to me anyway, seeing a £50k car on the drive of a £125-150k house. I'd imagine the monthly payments on these cars must be pretty steep?. Personally, I'd rather spend the money on a bigger house and get a smaller, older and cheaper car, but it seems I'm in the minority!

Toot Toot !! - Smileyman

Perhaps buy the 50k car @ 3 years old when the value has reduced to a more sensible level!

Toot Toot !! - argybargy

Envy is a terrible thing, and it eats away at the soul if you don't try to keep it at bay.

During the course of any particular day I see lots of young folks driving much more expensive cars than mine, but it never occurs to me to fulminate at their effrontery and wonder how they can afford them.

I simply categorise them as "driving Daddy's car without permission or insurance" and carry on with my day.

Toot Toot !! - RT

Envy is a terrible thing, and it eats away at the soul if you don't try to keep it at bay.

During the course of any particular day I see lots of young folks driving much more expensive cars than mine, but it never occurs to me to fulminate at their effrontery and wonder how they can afford them.

I simply categorise them as "driving Daddy's car without permission or insurance" and carry on with my day.

I don't even try to categorise them - I've never bought on brand image because I've never bothered about my own image, almost an inverted brand snob - equally I'm never "impressed" by those who do spent their own, or their banks, money on image.

Toot Toot !! - Wackyracer

I don't really care what anyone buys, I'm quite happy driving around in old cars that I bought outright (well, one of them was new when I bought it).

I'd rather spend my money on a non depreciating asset such as a house. My only concern with people buying cars on these PCP schemes is that there may eventually be a big hole in the schemes run by the finance companies and as normal I can see the UK tax payers having to fund it. I beleive there was a warning given to the Bank of England just the other week that they need to put money aside to cover any losses caused by people not being able to pay back the money they borrowed for things like PCP schemes.

Toot Toot !! - RT

I don't really care what anyone buys, I'm quite happy driving around in old cars that I bought outright (well, one of them was new when I bought it).

I'd rather spend my money on a non depreciating asset such as a house. My only concern with people buying cars on these PCP schemes is that there may eventually be a big hole in the schemes run by the finance companies and as normal I can see the UK tax payers having to fund it. I beleive there was a warning given to the Bank of England just the other week that they need to put money aside to cover any losses caused by people not being able to pay back the money they borrowed for things like PCP schemes.

Governments borrow to fund spending plans, businesses borrow to fund expansion plans (or just survive in some cases), people borrow to drive up house prices and people borrow to get a car - what's the difference? It's all excessive borrowing that goes pear-shaped every time there's a financial crisis - 2000, 2003, 2008 - we're probably due another one!

Toot Toot !! - veloceman
I bought my house to eat, sleep and keep warm in.
I'm not interested in having a bigger house then everyone else.

I do however love my cars, nothing excessively flash, just stuff that does it for me.
Life is for living not just admiring the four walls you are surrounded by.

And all things depreciate, your trousers, your toothbrush etc etc.
Toot Toot !! - Wackyracer
I bought my house to eat, sleep and keep warm in. I'm not interested in having a bigger house then everyone else.

I agree, I will never wish to own or live in a large house.


I do however love my cars, nothing excessively flash, just stuff that does it for me. Life is for living not just admiring the four walls you are surrounded by. And all things depreciate, your trousers, your toothbrush etc etc.

I don't think the depreciation on trousers and toothbrushes can be in anyway compared to the thousands of pounds of depreciation on new cars.

One of mine had a new price of £16,000 but, at 4 years old and with 51,000miles I bought it for £2600. I can live with having to buy a couple of tyres and a few car park door marks. That still gave me well over £10,000 to have a nice holiday and treat myself to something I wanted.

Toot Toot !! - johnnyrev
I often sit outside my Son's school of an afternoon and contemplate the multitude of £50k SUV's that are parked (on the pavement) around me. My £9k Dacia and £1k Mazda seem decidedly low rent in comparison! I think I must be an inverted brand snob too as I tend to prefer cheaper cars (my Merc CLK was a brief exception to the rule!).

I do ponder whether a £50k SUV is necessary for the school run, but if that's what folk want to spend their cash on, then that's fine. It seems as if the Mum's have an SUV, such as an Evoque, and the Dad's have a smart German saloon. That seems like a large monthly expenditure, but I guess is the result of cheap credit and PCP deals.

My Logan was bought on a PCP (£158 a month!) to get a 5 year warranty, but paid off with a loan as the interest rate was better. So I do worry whether folk look at the small print and only consider the monthly payment cost.

As I sit in my Dacia (the only one ever seen on the school run in Royal Sutton Coldfield), I try to work out what an X5 does that the Logan can't. I'm not sure I know the answer. And the Logan even has working indicators!
Toot Toot !! - hillman

I have to refer to the more popular thread by ORB. The BRs have put the case against PCP succinctly.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=119091

Not that I am any less guilty of prejudice, no !

Toot Toot !! - joegrundy

JohnyRev: "My Logan was bought on a PCP (£158 a month!) to get a 5 year warranty, but paid off with a loan as the interest rate was better."

I've been looking at, and thinking about, this. My son has a Dacia Sandero on PCP and it suits him (so far) because of the way he can he can budget his expenditure. I'm thinking of buying one, but I'm not keen on PCP. Luckily I could bu one for cash - or at least cash financed by a 3.6% bank loan. I have several questions - probably best to start a new thread - but one question for JR: how much did it cost you to buy out of PCP?

Toot Toot !! - argybargy

My brother is rolling in money. Well, maybe not "rolling", but he has lots of it.

I was looking for a change of car last year and he offered to lend the money to me at the rate he was getting from his bank, which at the time was about two per cent. I hummed and harred and eventually told him thanks, but I'd decided to keep my car. Meantime my son decided he wanted a new car and he couldn't get affordable finance because of a rotten credit score, so I approached my brother and he lent his nephew the money at just under three per cent. Not an option available to most of us, I'd readily acknowledge, but it worked well for all parties currently concerned, not least because I didn't have to further plunder my paltry savings to help my son out, having recently contributed to the cost of his wedding.

Stating the obvious in present company, I know, but the idea of borrowing money and buying a new car then absorbing the depreciation seems like madness, unless you have so much money that it really doesn't matter. So I'll probably look at one of those PCP things when I retire for good in 3 years time and my income is fixed and secure (ish). Good to know you can get out of them if you have to.

Edited by argybargy on 16/07/2017 at 10:24

Toot Toot !! - Manatee

If you need a car to work and you have to borrow, it's an investment with a payback.

If you have to borrow for a new car just because you want one, that's just spending money you haven't earned yet.

I only ever once borrowed to buy a car, £500 in 1978 I think. It was at 5% (low in 1978) because I worked for a bank at the time. I resented every £21 payment for making me that much poorer each month, and never did it again. Even now I hate monthly commitments, whether for memberships, subscriptions or whatever, and I have a periodic cull.

There's not much in the bible that makes sense to me, but "The rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender" is a bit that does.

Others' choices are theirs of course, and I criticise no one.

Edited by Manatee on 16/07/2017 at 10:54

Toot Toot !! - gordonbennet

Advertisers know their game, and their targets.

You have to feel sorry for youngsters, who unless they happen to have sensible parents or mentors that they will listen to, are easy pickings in so many things, they get precious little common sense education from the state system.

The irony of sales patter is heavy, where freedom is being sold to the wide eyed in the form of freedom of the road * where in the real world being debt free is true freedom...and anyone who's lived through the day they paid their last mortgage payment has enjoyed that moment of real liberation, the realisation that no one has you by the short and curlies any more.

* is it i wonder just the youngsters who are captured by the in vogue sales, such as soft roader ads where the car in question sails through a utopian urban jungle without another car in sight, only hip bystanders gazing in envious awe at the vehicle being advertised going on unflichingly through increasingly bizarre circumstances.

On the subject of loans, we needed a relatively small mortgage when we bought our present home some 14 years ago, the lady at the building society seemed genuinely amazed that we had no loans or credit cards (we do have one now but only for internet purchases), i know some people of our age have ended up in dire financial straits for various reasons but you'd think that most people would have learned the lessons of loans earlier (as MT's post) and would make it their purpose never to repeat that mistake.

I have a real problem with paying interest, the people getting that interest are the seriously rich and their chums who make the rules, with those ranging from the poor to the aspirational paying the very rich to continue to live in the manner they have become accustomed to, nope, not playing that game.

 

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