A Growth Industry - angelcyn

I know that I am not alone when noticing the space available for current autos has not changed in decades.

With the current growth in sales of MPVs SUVs crossovers bigger and better seems to be the theme today, if you add in the yearly facelift new model that is always a few cms wider and longer there is coming the point and in fact in certain circumstances it has been reache d where the car of today does not fit the roads or parking spaces.

We have a big store carpark near us that has spaces that simply will not accomadate the SUVs that go there they are now overlapping into the next bay making that one unavailable, in the same place having parked myself the next space was taken by a BMW X5 who having parked could not open the doors to get out, the owner exited by the tailgate ! but that hardly helps those parked next to him.

Will we have to go down the Japanese route of restricting car width for certain situations ?

A Growth Industry - kiss (keep it simple)

I think the answer is to have a couple of sizes of parking bays. Small ones should be cheaper and closer to the shops. Smart barriers should be able to direct vehicles to the right area. Large 4x4 vehicles can park in a field.

A Growth Industry - RobJP

The problem is as much with the modern safety kit on cars as it is with the width of the cars themselves. When a car door is approaching a foot thick, to allow for crumple zones, safety bars, airbags, that additional width has to be cleared by a long way to allow someone to squeeze between the pillar and the door.

A Growth Industry - badbusdriver

The problem is as much with the modern safety kit on cars as it is with the width of the cars themselves. When a car door is approaching a foot thick, to allow for crumple zones, safety bars, airbags, that additional width has to be cleared by a long way to allow someone to squeeze between the pillar and the door.

This may well be a factor, but to be honest, I think it much more to do with styling trends. Making a car wider gives it a sportier stance, which, these days anyway, seems to be the be all and end all!.

I'm all for the Japanese system where (i think this is only the case in bigger cities like Tokyo) if you own anything other than a 'kei' car, you must have your own parking space. Public parking will only accommodate kei cars. I think a version of that idea would be good for our cities. Have park and ride schemes on the outskirts, and unless you have a small car, up to a given size, you can't drive into the city centre (unless you have your own parking space at work or home).

I've said it before, and no doubt will again, but small cars are great!. And if people were honest with themselves, they would admit in the vast majority of cases, nobody needs anything bigger than a golf (maybe even a polo, or in my case, a jazz). Although, as has been mentioned, most cars these days, when replaced with a new model, are bigger!. I was just reading about the new civic, which is 30cm(!) longer than the golf it was being compared to.

A Growth Industry - bazza

I've never really understood why cars and trucks have to get bigger each generation as in general the bigger the vehicle, the less overall utility it tends to have, particularly in most of the day to day activities we all do, such as supermarket shopping and parking in towns. I loaned a 5 series for a weekend a couple of years ago and whilst it was a terrific car on the motorway, it was a nightmare in Sainsburys car park and outside my house. Just far too big 90% of the time.

I suspect the current trend for larger will reverse as soon as oil prices spike. It would only take a Mr Trump tantrum to do that. It will be interesting to see how the US car industry responds to his latest trick, will we see the return of the 1970s gas-guzzlers in the US-- I doubt it!

A Growth Industry - johnnyrev
When we had a Doblo a few years ago, it went in for a service and we had a Panda as a courtesy car. A few hours with the Panda convinced us that we didn't need a big car, so our next car was a Yaris.

The Yaris was all the car we needed, 3 suitcases went in the boot, and even all our camping gear. When I did a little research I found the Yaris was a similar size to the Golf my Dad had when I was in my teens.

My current Dacia Logan is more than big enough yet seems dwarfed next to 4x4's (even supposed mid-sized ones like a Quashqai) especially the width. And my MX5 is positively toy-like next to anything!

We compared the Logan to my brother in law's Mondeo estate a few weeks ago and whilst quite a lot bigger on the outside (especially width), it didn't seem bigger on the inside, and probably more claustrophobic as it had shallower windows.
A Growth Industry - sandy56

I think the time has come to tax cars on two parameters- on weight, and on area- lengthxwidth, on a logarithmic scale, so a Fiesta or Yaris is say the basic car and is taxed at current rates, lets say £100/year but if your car is 10% heavier or 10% bigger then you pay 10x the rate ie £1000/yr, if 20% heavier or larger then you pay 20x the rate eg £2,000/yr.

We do not need to drive around in 1.5 tonne vehicles or heavier.

A Growth Industry - Metropolis.
Where you guys are going wrong is basing it on 'need'.
Fortunately communism lost the argument and we can
have what we 'want' (provided it's affordable). I drive
my older auto discovery up and down the motorway most of
the time. Other times it's going round town on errands.
Do i 'need' a disco for that purpose? No,
probably not but it's a lot more comfortable than some
4 pot hatchback and I can see where i'm going over
other traffic, hedge rows etc. Easier to park too with such flat sides
and all corners being visible to the driver.
The government would have us all on buses and
bicycles if the do gooder hippies in government
had their way.

The fact is car park spaces are too small. I tend to
either park further away or go to the pickup point,
haven't had a ticket as yet. It's the spaces that need
to change not the cars.
A Growth Industry - oldroverboy.
.

Edited by oldroverboy. on 02/06/2017 at 15:27

A Growth Industry - oldroverboy.
Pay by horsepower in Switzerland. anyone want a 500hp jaguar or similar.
over 201 kw 43swissfrancs per 5 kw plus 50% surcharge if co2 over 200g/km
ouch!

Taxé d'après la puissance en KW (1KW=1,36 CV-DIN)

Prix en CHF


jusqu'à 31 KW 179.00
jusqu'à 36 KW 184.40
jusqu'à 41 KW 189.80
jusqu'à 46 KW 195.20
jusqu'à 51 KW 200.60
jusqu'à 56 KW 206.00
jusqu'à 61 KW 211.40
jusqu'à 66 KW 216.80
jusqu'à 71 KW 222.20
jusqu'à 76 KW 227.60
jusqu'à 81 KW 249.10
jusqu'à 86 KW 270.60
jusqu'à 91 KW 292.10
jusqu'à 96 KW 313.60
jusqu'à 101 KW 335.10
jusqu'à 106 KW 356.60
jusqu'à 111 KW 388.60
jusqu'à 116 KW 420.60
jusqu'à 121 KW 452.60
jusqu'à 126 KW 484.60
jusqu'à 131 KW 516.60
jusqu'à 136 KW 548.60
jusqu'à 141 KW 580.60
jusqu'à 146 KW 623.60
jusqu'à 151 KW 666.60
jusqu'à 156 KW 709.60
jusqu'à 161 KW 752.60
jusqu'à 166 KW 795.60
jusqu'à 171 KW 838.60
jusqu'à 176 KW 881.60
jusqu'à 181 KW 924.60
jusqu'à 186 KW 967.60
jusqu'à 191 KW 1'010.60
jusqu'à 196 KW 1'053.60
jusqu'à 201 KW 1'096.60
en sus, par 5KW 43.-

Pour les voitures dont la 1ère mise en circulation > 01.01.2010
##50 % bonus si CO2 <= 120 g/km
##50 % malus si CO2 > 200 g/km

sur les prix indiqués ci-dessus.


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Edited by oldroverboy. on 02/06/2017 at 15:32

A Growth Industry - Terry W

Only a few people have a real need for a larger vehicle - towing a boat, caravan, horse, large family - 4+ kids, live up a mile long track etc.

For all others it is a somewhat antisocial self indulgence.

There is no real justification for anything larger than an Astra or Focus sized car. It will carry 4/5 + luggage reasonably comfortably. It will perform more than adequately at all legal speeds with lots to spare. It can be driven 4-500 + miles in a day - driver boredom rather than a lack of comfort is likely to be the limiting factor.

Parking spaces are currently too small for larger vehicles - as an earlier poster says tax them (heavily) by size and weight. Discouraging unneccesary use of large vehicles will make parking easier and consume less energy to make and run a car - a win-win.

A Growth Industry - daveyK_UK

I agree with the japenese appraoch of taxing car length and width (but not height).

To many lazy designed cars in europe, such as the Vauxhall insignia or the ford focus with cramped interiors despite being over 4m long.

A Growth Industry - concrete

I have the answer to this tricky problem..........

PAINT.

Yes paint, Simply repaint the bay markings to enlarge the bay. QED. A very affordable solution to this problem n'est pas!

Cheers Concrete

A Growth Industry - SLO76
I dislike the notion that people be taxed or forced out of their choice of car but simple rules of commerce mean if you use more of a thing then you should pay more. A bigger car costs more to buy and more to fuel so why shouldn't it cost more to park too if it is indeed using more space than average?

Nothing worse (especially with a baby in tow) than finding a Range Rover squashed into the space beside you when you return to your motor and you end up having to squeeze into your car then draw it forward to get everyone else in.

Perhaps they should be given larger spaces and charged accordingly? Only larger cars can use them and only normal hatches and the like could use the normal spaces. Maybe a bit overcomplex though... I do like the Kei cars though. Ingenious engineering, clever use of space and very useful in cities.

Edited by SLO76 on 02/06/2017 at 18:54

A Growth Industry - scot22

PCharlton may I respectfully say that having what we want (can afford) rather than what we need is a significant cause of many personal and world problems, particularly environmental

I remember reading in a motoring mag of a young mother who 'needed' a huge 4x4 for her busy life taking her son too and from nursery. It cost £44,000 : my anger that that much money is spent unnecessarily when there is so much poverty is beyond polite description.

I suspect many drivers do not have sufficient skill and judgement to drive larger vehicles. Vehicles should be designed for function and value.

A Growth Industry - RT

PCharlton may I respectfully say that having what we want (can afford) rather than what we need is a significant cause of many personal and world problems, particularly environmental

I remember reading in a motoring mag of a young mother who 'needed' a huge 4x4 for her busy life taking her son too and from nursery. It cost £44,000 : my anger that that much money is spent unnecessarily when there is so much poverty is beyond polite description.

I suspect many drivers do not have sufficient skill and judgement to drive larger vehicles. Vehicles should be designed for function and value.

I bought an even more expensive large SUV because a) I wanted one and b) I could afford it. How I spend my money, accumulated legally from taxable earnings, is up to me.

I have a huge issue with the definition of "poverty" - it's defined as a set % of average income so as society gradually gets wealthier, the poverty level goes up - we're now at a point in time when the UK poverty line is at a level in excess of the average in the immediate post-wars years - poverty should be defined as an absolute standard of living, not a % of average.

A Growth Industry - John F
Pay by horsepower in Switzerland........ jusqu'à 196 KW 1'053.60 jusqu'à 201 KW 1'096.60 en sus, par 5KW 43.

Ouch! Glad I don't live in S'land. Already grateful my 331KW Audi is pre March 2006. Surely the fairest way is to abolish it and tax the fuel more.

Just back from driving across USA where mall spaces are wide, often with spaces between the spaces to open the doors! Fuel is 60p per litre and mass transit is an unknown concept. Ten lane motorways near LA in rush hour are worse than the M25. Bonkers.

Edited by John F on 03/06/2017 at 10:29

A Growth Industry - P3t3r

I think the answer is to have a couple of sizes of parking bays. Small ones should be cheaper and closer to the shops. Smart barriers should be able to direct vehicles to the right area. Large 4x4 vehicles can park in a field.

That's a brilliant idea. I would always pay extra for a larger space. Many supermarkets have large spaces for people with kids but as I don't have kids I'm not supposed to use them :(

A Growth Industry - Deft

One of the things putting me off having more kids (2 at the mo), is the thought of being forced into getting something bigger than a hatchback! Obviously no-one is forcing you in reality, but surely at 4 kids you have to admit defeat a little. I looked at an S-Max the other day in a car park and thought it didn't look too massive in reality.

A Growth Industry - gordonbennet

Hope they've still got the drawings for the Berlin wall, when the one goes up in Blighty hopefully i'll be in the free side and not the one governed by communists and spied on 24/7 by the stasi and their army of informers.

You, comrade, are not deserving of ze fruits of your labour, it has been decided by the people's court that you vill forfeit your bourgeois luxury car, only apparatchiks of state are allowed to have such material things, you vill be issued with vat is appropriate when ze leader of ze world chairman merkel returns from ze state dacha in ze glorious motherland, any objections can be dealt with at the secret people's criminal court, bring your own blindfold or your widow will be billed for that too.

:-)

Seriously, i have no trouble fitting my (smaller footprint than a Mondeo) Landcruiser neatly in any normal parking space, i also never anage to damage anyone elses property when parking it or trying to get out, which is more than can be said for the legions of identikit hatchbacks abandoned at all angles, sometimes in two or three spaces, and will require at least 6 shunts to extracate when the incompetent pilot returns.

I have no wish to be part of a one size fits all utopia thanks all the same.

Edited by gordonbennet on 02/06/2017 at 21:57

A Growth Industry - SLO76
Well said gordonbennet. It would be a dull old place if we all liked and did the same things or bought the same motors and true enough that it's often the smallest of hatchbacks or the overpriced BMW or Mini that are parked the worst often skewed accross two bays so that no one can get too close to their pride and joy.

A Growth Industry - scot22

I value diversity and people enjoying freedom of choice. However, taken to extremes this can lead to selfish anarchy. We do live in a society and either respect the common good or self destruct.

Gordon I appreciate your sense of humour and would hate to live in the society you describe. However, surely, there have to be values and principles to govern our conduct.

A Growth Industry - badbusdriver

Completely agree here Scott. It is about being responsible and considerate both to other road users and the environment itself. And when I refer to the environment, I'm not talking specifically about emissions, I'm also thinking about overcrowding of roads, the extra damage done to road surfaces by so much people having bigger and heavier cars.

Gordon, your quip about 'identikit hatchbacks' may well be true with regards to their appearance, but that is neither here nor there. Cars look the way they do these days because that is what the UK/European buyer wants, but, for what it's worth, the lack of more diverse and interesting styling is something which causes me no end of dismay.

Having a go at the standards of parking you witness by owners of more modestly sized cars is also somewhat pointless, as these drivers are inevitably going to soon be driving huge SUV's so that particular problem (poor standards of driving) is only going to get worse. But as I said, that, with regards to this thread, is irrelevant.

But going back to the dullness of car design, others, and myself have mentioned Japan for inspiration on getting needlessly huge cars, if not of the roads completely, at least out of our city centres. But we can also look to Japan and take heart that small cars need not all look the same. Take some time looking at some of the weird and wonderful Japanese 'kei' cars available and you will see what diversity looks like!

A Growth Industry - gordonbennet

An interesting concept the environment.

I wonder if there would be a population level, sort of naturally maintained where a set of islands, British Isles for example, would level out at with the space to cope and breathe, where the standard of life could be maintained.

Whatever that level was is now long passed and the damage done, making cars safer yet smaller to transport a too high population past its naturally sustainable level isn't going to make life any more bearable, all it might do is kick the can down the road for 2 years while all we proles shuffle ourselves a bit closer together.

I wouldn't mind but no one asked us if we wanted this, so i'm blowed if i'm going to drive round in a shoe packed in like sardines in a can to suit the latest sticking plaster temporary bright idea to cure the incurable, the incurable being the pint pot has a quart in already, compressing the half gallon in isn't going to work any better either.

A Growth Industry - scot22

Before being reminded not to go off thread I'll make a final comment on this. Cars are only part of a big picture and many elements need to be improved. Either we adopt a pessimistic view and despair or work to change things and steadily improve matters - evolution not revolution.

I still work with many youngsters and I have hope for the future.

A Growth Industry - badbusdriver

I do admire your self restraint Scot, and had to exercise some myself earlier!.

A Growth Industry - John F

i'm blowed if i'm going to drive round in a shoe packed in like sardines in a can ....

Try a Toyota iQ, it actually feels quite spacious and makes a lot of sense if little space behind the driver's seat is needed. The downside is the frightening awareness of the HGV radiator a few inches behind your head.

A Growth Industry - corax
I wonder if there would be a population level, sort of naturally maintained where a set of islands, British Isles for example, would level out at with the space to cope and breathe, where the standard of life could be maintained.

Sounds like Norway to me.

A Growth Industry - P3t3r

Seriously, i have no trouble fitting my (smaller footprint than a Mondeo) Landcruiser neatly in any normal parking space, i also never anage to damage anyone elses property when parking it or trying to get out, which is more than can be said for the legions of identikit hatchbacks abandoned at all angles, sometimes in two or three spaces, and will require at least 6 shunts to extracate when the incompetent pilot returns.

This is the problem I have. My car is small and I can park it in almost every space but the problem is when somebody else then parks next to me and smashes more doors in! This is why I would want a larger space. I always park furthest away from the shops and on the higher floors in multistorey car parks. So far I seem to have been lucky with avoiding damage on my current car.

I've had occassions where I've had to climb over from the passenger side to get to the driver's seat. It's lucky that I'm fairly young and agile.

A Growth Industry - Avant

It's not the end of the world if people go off thread. It happens in verbal conversations, so why not here?

If it happens, anybody can bring the discussion back to the original topic if they want to.

A Growth Industry - Stanb Sevento

I run a big car, its the biggest size that will fit into a standard parking space, same size as a T5 van. Its beyond me why anyone would run such a car who did not need the space. Is all down side after space, cost, fuel, parking to name a few. I do however respect individuals freedom to choose the car they want and if we are to charge people for how much they use then logicaly annual mileage must be a factor.

If there is a car that annoys me its the modern SUV / crossover. They are a triumf of marketing and fashon over engineering and common sence. Im not talking about those who have a need for four wheel drive or large ground clearance but more the two wheel drive Tonka toys. To get the right look they need giant wheels, giant wheels need giant wheel arches, giant wheel arches intrude into cabin space resulting in the driver being pushed backwards to get enough space to have the pedals in front of him. The driver is so far back there is no room for rear seats so the floor is streched. resulting in this very bulky car that has no more space inside than a Golf. Add a few bulging light clusters and you have something that to my eyes just looks silly.

A Growth Industry - badbusdriver

You forget the tyres stanb, which due to being extremely low profile completely ruin the ride (apart from a few exceptions). But, it's all about the image!. The new Renault scenic comes with 21" or 22" wheels as standard. Owners are going to get a shock when they have to replace a set of those!

A Growth Industry - gordonbennet

But, it's all about the image!. The new Renault scenic comes with 21" or 22" wheels as standard. Owners are going to get a shock when they have to replace a set of those!

Seriously?, have they lost the plot at Renault.

Mind you i delivered hundreds of quite bog standard Insignias on 20" wheels, so really nothing should surprise any more.

I love the big softy 65 aspect tyres on my old Landdcruiser barge, sidewalls must be 6"+ deep on 265/65 x 17, coupled with electrically adjustable shocks and air springs on the back it rides lovely over the detritus of what were once Northant's decent roads.

A Growth Industry - focussed

Next time you find a parking bay that doesn't look big enough, measure it.

A british standard parking bay should be 2.4 metres wide x 4.8 metres long.

That's 7 feet 10 1/2 inches wide x 15 feet 9 inches long (to the nearest inch or so)

How do I know this? Because back to driving instruction again (yawn) I suspected that the parking bays at my local driving test centre were a bit on the narrow side so I measured them,yup sure enough they were about 6 inches too narrow.

Had great joy in pointing this out to the senior examiner.

Shortly after that they got re-painted to the correct width.

A Growth Industry - RT

Next time you find a parking bay that doesn't look big enough, measure it.

A british standard parking bay should be 2.4 metres wide x 4.8 metres long.

That's 7 feet 10 1/2 inches wide x 15 feet 9 inches long (to the nearest inch or so)

How do I know this? Because back to driving instruction again (yawn) I suspected that the parking bays at my local driving test centre were a bit on the narrow side so I measured them,yup sure enough they were about 6 inches too narrow.

Had great joy in pointing this out to the senior examiner.

Shortly after that they got re-painted to the correct width.

There is no "standard" UK parking space - 2.4m x 4.8m is common but there's no defined standard anywhere.

A Growth Industry - Stanb Sevento

IIts not surprising I have to be careful picking a parking bay, my car is 4.85m long and 1.9m wide without mirrors. Strangely enough its not the size of the bay that has given the most problems but more the width of the road between the rows, some of these are narrower than the length of the car and if there are big cars both sides of me it can take a few bites at it to get out. The best method Ive found for getting out is to reverse straight back and drive back in as close as possible to the car on one side leaving the maximum space on the other side so you can get the most lock on the steering.

A Growth Industry - davecooper

I will look for a quiet corner of a car park if possible and walk the extra distance. Saves see- sawing into a tight spot between other cars. What does irk me though is when I do this and someone parks right next door to me when there may be dozens of spaces around. Do people think cars get lonely and want to talk to each other?

 

Ask Honest John

Value my car