MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Hi Guys n Girls

Newbie to the world of mini's here so go easy on me!

I am hoping that one of you nice folk will be good enough to lend 5 minutes of your time/knowledge.

I've just bought my first ''Dooper'' which I absolutely love. Unfortunately I've had the DPF fault light come on, yikes!

I've done a bit of reading on this and understand that this pug engine in the 07 Mini should activate an auto-regen. Despite that I know this engine on fords/Peugeot's requires a manual regen, so gave her a good spanking yesterday which initially seemed to clear the light (when re-started) but then today it came back on.

It doesn't help that I think there may be a slight electrical issue with the car, I've had dash lights for ''pass air bag off'' intermittently lit on start up and also external light failure warning light.

I've seen there are treatments for the DPF, however I do not want to spend money on this if its actually something faulty elsewhere causing the light to come on. If I get a diagnostics test done will it just reflect what the display is showing or will it know 100% if the DPF is knackered?

I've also been told by my local mechanic that once the DPF fault is up that the ECU will NOT perform a regen until the code is cleared, is this true?

The car seems to perform ok, although av mpg is only 45 for combined usage so a little low.

Bought this only 1 week ago from a garage 150miles away (Eastfield Motors in Peterborough funnily enlugh), with a third party warranty that does not cover the DPF, but they have said if I return to them they will ''sort it out'', presumably free of charge. My concern with this is they just clear the code and send me on my way.

I don't mind losing a further few hundred quid fixing it without the hassle of going up to them, however if I encounter a spiderweb of faults a)it will cost me more than I am willing to spend and b)the supplier will then most likely not be liable to help if I go to a local mechanic

What do you think I should do? Should I take it back to them? Get my money back? Get it diagnosed locally and if confirmed get it flushed/gutted out/remapped?

I spent ages looking for a car and this stretched my finances to the max, whilst I understand these mini's need regular investment and tlc I am concerned I have walked in to a bit of a money pit - I do NOT want that!

Thanks for all your help, its much appreciated!

Rory

Edit: the light has been off a couple of times in the few days since I originally posted this elsewhere

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - SLO76
Take it back to the supplying garage and let them have a shot at fixing it with the understanding that you will reject the car as unfit for purpose if it's not fixed properly.

Ask them to keep it until they're sure and to give you a courtesy vehicle for any time they require to do so. I'd personally ask if they'll refund you or allow you to swap into another vehicle if similar value as this PSA engine is a nightmare often talked of on here and referred all to often as the diesel of doom.

There's loads of issues with this engine and the DPF is just one of them. It's not a car I'd want to keep and I'd advise against buying anything with this engine fitted which includes many Fords, Mazdas, Minis and Volvos. You're better off getting shot of it.

This also a reminder of why it's wise to buy locally if at all possible.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/05/2017 at 13:29

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - Gibbo_Wirral

I agree with the above. Known colloquially as the "Bee Emm Trouble U" engine!

Although in fairness its not entirely the engine to blame, but the conditions its used in. In a motorway cruiser its perfectly fine, but just not suited to pootling around towns where it never gets upto temperature or speed to naturally clean the DPF. I know a few owners who have had this engine in their car from new and never had a lick of trouble, but they tend to do a lot of motorway driving and very regular servicing.

As its second hand you probably won't know how or where the owner drove it. I'd also recommend getting rid and going for something else, it could be a money pit as a result. I've known people have loads of problems when they've become the second owner of a modern diesel which has only done local drives - DPF issues, gummed up EGR valves and so on.

My personal opinion is that it also needs far more frequent oil changes than the manufactuer recommends.

As for your air bag issue, there's a well documented fault:

blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-recalls-91800-mini-coope.../

Edited by Gibbo_Wirral on 08/05/2017 at 14:06

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - daveyjp

DPF is no different to most car components, they don't last forever. The DPF also has various sensors it needs to operate - when these fail it can lead to DPF issues.

Even a motorway cruisers will need a replacement DPF eventually.

After ten years it is no surprise it needs replacing, however as the fault occured so soon after you bought it back to the dealer and get them to sort it out, or reject and swap for a petrol vehicle.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Thank you all for the quick responses, a great help during a week where my spare time and cash should be being spent on my girlfriend for her birthday, not the new car!

Wow, sounds like I've unearthed some strong opinions of this engine! I'm sure this is all fact based however one never hears so much of the ''good issues'' when searching the web, so I'm trying to clutch at some kind of perspective! I'd guess it must be a decent engine though if its used accross so many vehicles? Assume it is the way that BMW have configured it if it really is that bad.

The DPF itself as I understand is a rather simple piece of equipment, so I'm hoping that in actual fact I need not fear about anything further and as per the last post, its a wear and tear item that will deplete over time.

The garage are being decent and have advised that warranty will cover any electrical issues with the other lights i've had come on. There is of course a small chance that this is linked to the DPF light too so may clear it. If not they've said the DPF uses an oil reservoir which is used to help the regen and that the light may refer to the levels being low? I'd have expected a Mini to have a seperate light for this myself? Well, they've said if I get these levels checked if low they will send me the oil to install.

If all else fails they are happy to take a look themselves and rectify FOC, I guess I should trust this as a resolution.

Does the performance I mention seem right for this vehicle? I had thought I would see more like an average of 50+MPG. If this seems low could it indicate that the DPF is drawing extra from the engine?

Thank you once again for your help folks, its much appreciated!

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - SLO76
"I'd guess it must be a decent engine though if its used accross so many vehicles? Assume it is the way that BMW have configured it if it really is that bad."

Sadly it doesn't work like that. This engine is widely used because PSA undercut rival offerings and not because it was a better motor. It's as troublesome under the hood of a Focus as it is in a Volvo or a Mini.

Ford have a long history of buying in Peugeot diesel technology going way back to the 70's with the 2.1 Diesel Mk II Ford Granada, later 2.5 also used in the Transit and the old 2.3 slug used by the Sierra. At least they were simple and robust back then.

BMW used to buy in Toyota 1.4 diesels for the Mini which were slow but reliable. Shame they didn't use the bombproof Isuzu 1.7 as used by Honda in the 01-05 Civic and Vauxhall in the Corsa/Astra/Zafira.

Edited by SLO76 on 08/05/2017 at 16:43

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - gordonbennet

The engine can be fine, but as noted it needs much better servicing than the handbook might suggest (it isn't alone in this) and has some issues, mainly a silly little filter in the oil supply line that can starve the turbo of oil, and that injector seals can leak allowing blow by of combustion gases into the engine itself whch carbons up the oil leading to eventual seizure.

If looked after serviced and driven properly from day one and someone keeps an eye on things, and every now and again at oil change time someone inspects inside the sump with a tiny camera, particularly the oil pick up, then there's no reason the engine won't cover many hundreds of thousands of miles without a moments problem.

That 2.5 Pug lump SL076 mentions, i fully reconditioned one myself, new pistons rebore etc, completely worn out at 80k because the taxi owner driver couldn't be bothered to check or change the oil, expensive saving on servicing.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - SLO76
"That 2.5 Pug lump SL076 mentions, i fully reconditioned one myself, new pistons rebore etc, completely worn out at 80k because the taxi owner driver couldn't be bothered to check or change the oil, expensive saving on servicing."

Proof that scrimping on servicing is always a false economy. I've been in a Mk II Granada taxi (many many years ago) that had over 1m miles on it supposedly on the original engine.

I loved old sluggers like this. They'd do massive mileages and were totally relaxing to drive as there was no point in trying to go fast. Old taxis would just run and run until the a*** fell out them.
MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - Gibbo_Wirral

a silly little filter in the oil supply line that can starve the turbo of oil

And can get quickly blocked if the wrong oil is used. DPFs need "low ash" oil I believe.

Another thing to be ware of is that the EOLYS additive that is used to clean the DPF is injected into the fuel whenever the fuel cap is opened. So if the previous owner kept putting small amounts of fuel in instead of a complete fill up, the tank could indeed be empty.

I'm not certain about the Mini, but on Peugeot's there are little magnets in the fuel cap which trigger the sensor to inject the additive. They can come loose and fall out. Other DPF issues can be damage to the additive tank or pouch, dirt ingress in the additive tank electrics, failing glow plus and their relay (plugs are used in a regen). Even a non functioning engine cooling car can cause the regen process to fail and the filter get blocked.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - madf

I'm not certain about the Mini, but on Peugeot's there are little magnets in the fuel cap which trigger the sensor to inject the additive. They can come loose and fall out.

And people complain when I critcise French cars!!!

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Hi all,

This is interetsing stuff-thanks for the replies! Ok, the issue itself is a ballache I could do without but I quite like understanding how things work!

Anyone know 100% if my model has the ad-blue tank? And if so based on the French technology would opening my fuel cap for a period of time really trigger its release!?

I have opted to go down the warranty route for now, my local garage has had it scanned and the only fault re engine management they came up with(which i'd assume and according to them is what the DPF would fall under) was for the Glow-Plug relay circuit. From reading about certain DPF regen processes the Glob Plugs do have a part to play but whether that is the case for the Mini I do not know?

Well they cleared this code, alas as soon as started the car the light came back on. In all honesty would a diagnostics at BMW/Mini really bring anything any different up or is there every possibility that my mechanics findings do relate to the DPF?

Warranty does not cover DPF nor wiring, so I'm kinda hoping that something else has failed in order for it to not cost me anything! Its certainly a fine line asking your garage to diagnose, potentially I could throw 3 hours labour at it to not find a thing! (hence my question re BMW/Mini garage to get this time down)

What would you say my next step should be? The local guys have been spot on and have not charged me a penny yet, they understand my situation. The original garage that supplied it are too being decent.

Thanks one and all for your input, you've been great :)

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - elekie&a/c doctor

No ad-blu or additive tank on these,but a faulty glow plug(s) would cause the dpf system to malfunction and cause a problem with the re-gen process.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - Redcar01

third party warranty will NOT cover existing or new faults its down to the seller for the first 6 months

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - RobJP

third party warranty will NOT cover existing or new faults its down to the seller for the first 6 months

Yup. Basically, it sounds as though the garage you bought it from sold it to you with a pre-existing fault. So it s their responsibility - at THEIR cost - to put it right.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Thanks all once more for the input, a big thumbs up!

I'm not sure I follow re the warranty, I test drove it, it was fine, I drove home, its gained a fault.

If the failure of a unit is clarified I do not see how this does not give me valid grounds to claim?

Its also a 3 month warranty, so any point during this period I can claim, right? Or from what you are saying this would put my claim period from months 6-9? Confusing!

Rory

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - RobJP

Basically, the Consumer Rights Act states that a fault that occurs within the first 6 months is assumed to have been 'present or developing' at the time of sale. As such, you were sold goods that were faulty, and the vendor is responsible for repairing those goods.

This is absolutely nothing to do with a warranty. It is your right in law.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Thanks. I'm aware of this however thought it was 28 days myself. Irrespective, whereby something isn't new thus as a consumer me being aware of goods having worn parts/functions upon purchase I'd be surprised if this ruling stands up, hence with things like second hand cars the option to buy/include a warranty.

I'm increasingly frustrated with the garage who sold it to me though, despite them stating they would ''not walk away from the problem'' they sold me the line about the ad-blue being a possible cause (after consulting their ''diesel guy'') when the b***** thing doesn't even use it! Not helpful!

So, from my limited understanding (and my mechanic confirmed) ''the glow plug relay circuit'' fault is linked to the DPF, but is this likely to be a cause or a sympton!? Dependant on this should I get it replaced and start the claim process?

Also can anyone confirm if the scan should have brought up an independent error code for the DPF as the light is on? And if so should I be taking it to a mini specialist? As mentioned my guys have stated an EM Scan should bring it up (they have a new £2500 machine) - that said the Mini dash EM light is unrelated!?

Really don't want to have to take it back, however I am becoming increasingly apprehensive at the potential unknown costs involved - especially as my first credit card payment for the car goes out this month :(

Thank you for all your help and time one and all!

Rory

Edited by NEWMINI84 on 01/06/2017 at 12:08

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - RobJP

Thanks. I'm aware of this however thought it was 28 days myself. Irrespective, whereby something isn't new thus as a consumer me being aware of goods having worn parts/functions upon purchase I'd be surprised if this ruling stands up, hence with things like second hand cars the option to buy/include a warranty.

If you don't know your rights in law, then you can be absolutely certain that the garage aren't going to help you out.

The selling grage are liabe for faults that happen within the first 6 months after sale. The faults are assumed to have been 'present or developing' at the time of sale, unless the garage can prove otherwise.

Take it back to the selling garage, kick off. Inform them that you wish to reject the car and receive a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act, as they have failed to rectify the faults. If they refuse, trading standards.

Stop messing about. The car has problems. Keep it, YOU will have problems, and those problems will end up costing YOU money.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Whilst I appreciate the input I find it hard to believe that this is true in full, you're basically saying that warranties arent applicable. Why would people buy/receive warranties if everyone and anything can be returned within 6 months?

I don't want a fight with the garage, its more hassle than its worth if I have reason to claim, however I am of course looking to clarify things first in case this is my only option...at the moment I still see this as the final option. ''Messing about'' driving 130 miles and back (i say and back, if i reject the car i will be stranded unless i take back my px!), the credit card fees, the toll fees, the petrol costs, the insurance admin fees, etc etc. And if I get them to work on the car, staying over night somewhere whilst they work/order parts etc.

Presumably there are reasons for nationwide warranties and this is seemingly a prime example. I like the car a lot and would rather try and keep it. I have contacts within law so if I really wanted ''a fight'' I have people to help, but frankly I cannot be bothered unless the costs to me are looking over a few hundred quid and i end up stuck in limbo!

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - RobJP

Whilst I appreciate the input I find it hard to believe that this is true in full, you're basically saying that warranties arent applicable. Why would people buy/receive warranties if everyone and anything can be returned within 6 months?

I don't want a fight with the garage, its more hassle than its worth if I have reason to claim, however I am of course looking to clarify things first in case this is my only option...at the moment I still see this as the final option. ''Messing about'' driving 130 miles and back (i say and back, if i reject the car i will be stranded unless i take back my px!), the credit card fees, the toll fees, the petrol costs, the insurance admin fees, etc etc. And if I get them to work on the car, staying over night somewhere whilst they work/order parts etc.

Presumably there are reasons for nationwide warranties and this is seemingly a prime example. I like the car a lot and would rather try and keep it. I have contacts within law so if I really wanted ''a fight'' I have people to help, but frankly I cannot be bothered unless the costs to me are looking over a few hundred quid and i end up stuck in limbo!

Go. Learn your legal rights. The Consumer Rights Act. Google will direct you to any number of helpful websites. Which, Trading standards departments, this website has a whole section on consumer rights, etc.

As to the issues when you've bought a car 130 miles away ... well, sorry, but tough. You chose to do so. Nobody forced you to buy a car so far away (unless you live in the Scottish Highlands). It is your responsibility to get it back to them for fixing.

As you've already found, aftermarket warranties don't cover things like DPFs. That's where the CRA gives you protection.

I'll put it this way : the garage appear to have no desire to comply with their obligations and your rights in the law. So you can either suck it up and pay the bill for diagnostics and a new DPF / whatever might be needed, or you can 'get involved in a fight' with them.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - skidpan

Whilst I appreciate the input I find it hard to believe that this is true

Try doing some on-line research before saying valuable advice given by a regular poster is not correct.

Here is a link to the Which page

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consume...t

It clearly says "If you discover the fault within the first six months after buying the product, it is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase - unless the retailer can prove otherwise." it goes on to say "If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product."

By all means keep the car if you want but don't expect any repair to the DPF to cost "a few hundred quid"

So read the full article and post your decision. There is no point posters trying to help you if you simply want to believe it will cost nothing to fix and all will be OK.

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - NEWMINI84

Thanks guys.

I will use this to go back in this case, will highlight that the DPF/wiring is not covered and therefore they need to rectify themselves-black and white no questions.

I wasn't shooting down your advice by the way (i do not frequent HJ enough to know what a reliable poster looks like :) ) its just nobody has actually answered my question re warranties - as this is the route I've spent time going down it made sense to pursue.

For future reference a warranty isn't worth the paper its written on then? The CRA would supersede most terms offered anyway?

Thanks guys!

MINI Cooper D - Mini CooperD DPF fault light - needing urgent help - SLO76
Dealers sell warranties to negate the risk to themselves of future comeback. They can direct you to the warranty firm to fight with them. Although on older higher mileage motors they're rarely worth the paper they're printed on they are usable products on newer cars of under say 5yrs old but largely they cover the dealer not you since consumer rights law is now so much tougher. Effectively any major fault that happens within 6mths would be covered under current rules but this is complicated by the fact that age, mileage and price are factors that would be taken into account by a court. Buying a 6mth warranty in almost any situation is an utter waste of money but it does make life easier on younger cars with decent warranties as you don't have to threaten and more often than not take legal action against the dealer which will be a stressful fight. This is why so many home traders are hiding behind the guise of a private punter to avoid these rules. But realistic expectations must be made when buying an older motor. It's always a risk and to limit that risk you should buy the least complex car possible.

Edited by SLO76 on 02/06/2017 at 12:24

 

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