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Further to my earlier post, had a quick browse on the usual site, GPS stand alone speed displays are now cheap, this ones Chinese (arn't they all?) but for less than £20 inc postage it might be a solution for your wife OP though obviously it won't know the current speed limit in force as its isn't a sat nav, also has cheap heads up capabilty via the reflective screen film supplied, the power cable is usb apparently.
ebay number
122373373219
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Last time I thought I had been caught by a mobile speed van , I decided that I couldn't stand the stress of waiting for the brown envelope so I drove back to the van and walked up to the van and asked the question. The camera man just pointed to the direction of the camera and said Make up your mind.I instantly knew I was ok.
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I have just contacted the various Police forces that my wife routes transferred, and it appears (touch wood) that the two she recived on the only ones.
However it did make me think about the law and speeding camers and I fel the present system is a bit unfair.
If she would have comited several offences on a a motorway covered by average speed camers it would be considered one offence. However do this on a rural road and pass two or three cameras in excess of the spped limit and suddenly your facing multiple tickets - this doesn't seem fair.
I am not opposed to speed cameras but this incident has made me re-think how fair they are. The people who know the roads break and acelerate between them, those unfamilier can get cought out. As I said in my first post, both me and my wife are not habitual speeders, this is a first offence in 30 years for either of us, but my wife could possible lost her licence on this stretch of road
Edited by thirts on 27/03/2017 at 16:10
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I am not opposed to speed cameras but this incident has made me re-think how fair they are. The people who know the roads break and acelerate between them, those unfamilier can get caught out.
I sympathise with your objection to a single offence on a M'way but several on an A-road, but I can't accept that it is 'unfair' for those who don't know a road so are unable to 'cheat'. It's almost like saying that those who have driven a route for 30 years or more, but only every few months, can be caught out by a new 40-mph limit hidden round a familiar bend.
Unfortunately it's a matter of keeping a good lookout, and remembering what speed one might be caught for, all the time.
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I sympathise with your objection to a single offence on a M'way but several on an A-road, but I can't accept that it is 'unfair' for those who don't know a road so are unable to 'cheat'. I
I would go so far as 'unable to cheat' - my wife accepts she was in the wrong and careless, and if she would have been paying attention to the speed limits, she would not have sped for the whole journey.
However she did (her mistake), but it seems that the penalty is potentail far harsher on a stretch of rural road with several camers, than on similar distance on a motorway with average speed cameras.
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I sympathise with your objection to a single offence on a M'way but several on an A-road, but I can't accept that it is 'unfair' for those who don't know a road so are unable to 'cheat'. I
I would go so far as 'unable to cheat' - my wife accepts she was in the wrong and careless, and if she would have been paying attention to the speed limits, she would not have sped for the whole journey.
However she did (her mistake), but it seems that the penalty is potentail far harsher on a stretch of rural road with several camers, than on similar distance on a motorway with average speed cameras.
If it's any consolation, average speed cameras are increasingly being used on non-motorways.
I totally sympathise with your wife - I ALWAYS try to comply with all speed limits - but on the "few" occasions I've made a mistake, usually driving to the wrong speed limit, I seem to end up with "loyalty points"
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Its all about the money, always has and aways will be.
Call it a fine, a charge, tax, whatever. Highway robbery.
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Its all about the money, always has and aways will be.
Call it a fine, a charge, tax, whatever. Highway robbery.
Maybe it is. But if hitting offenders in the wallet is the only thing that has any effect, so be it. Some drivers clearly object to being advised to restrict their speed, and complain when they get caught in the game of cops and robbers. You know the rules, so don't moan and say it's not fair.
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However she did (her mistake), but it seems that the penalty is potentail far harsher on a stretch of rural road with several camers, than on similar distance on a motorway with average speed cameras.
One could argue that the potential for mishap is magnified to the nth degree on rural or other roads, when compared to a motorway where everyone is going in the same direction with a non drastic speed differential, hence why motorways are generally NSL and other roads subject to various lower limits.
Smart motorways are different, there's ots of new cameras dotted about, some overhead, some bolted to the side support, not average sections, so each and every driver is running the same risks if they ignore the perils their insurance premiums and ultimately their licences are in.
A huge minority of drivers don't know the limit in place at any time, must go along with their eyes shut or in a parallel dimension, hence the hard braking and subsequent concertina effect behind when these people see a camera, sited often only a couple hundred yards past a 40/50 repeater sign, yet still brake heavily to around 25/30mph as they pass it, better still on wide open dual carriageways subject to NSL and yet they still brake to 40 or less for the camera, favourite for this are the two cameras on the A43 near The Green Man, Syresham/Silverstone, they come hurtling past my lorry just before the camera then stand on the brakes causing me to immediately be undertaking them (still doing about a steady 53) or have to brake to match their incompetence.
Edited by gordonbennet on 27/03/2017 at 18:46
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Its all about the money, always has and aways will be.
Call it a fine, a charge, tax, whatever. Highway robbery.
The speed limits are there for a reason. If you don't like them don't drive.
To break the limit and then moan is just plain daft.
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This situation is not beyond being improved. Irrational speed limit changes, poor engineering and signage don't help. Neither do irresponsible drivers who think the speed limit is optional. Our village is a perfect example. A 30 mph limit through the village often ignored, not just ignored but brazenly flouted. Some clown in a Range Rover the other day came through at light speed. God help anyone going about the village and crossing the road to the shops. The police and local authorities have not covered themselves with glory here. They site mobile cameras where they collect the most revenue and tell us it all about safety. They must think we are stupid. I am broadly in favour of cameras, provided they are used to full effect for safety, not for revenue. As for motorways, like everywhere else you need to concentrate, as RobJP pointed out. At least on the average speed sections traffic does flow well so it does say soemthing for the system. Cheers Concrete
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Sums it up perfectly Concrete! Plus we are constantly told in all walks of life that Safety is the Number 1 priority etc etc, when clearly in many cases it is not. Cameras in the right place for revenue but the wrong place for safety.
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We do make it tricky for strangers in UK as its often not possible to identify the speed limit with certainty until you see a sign. in the few places I've driven abroad (Spain, France) there are generally only town, country and Motorway limits with maybe lower posted limits on bends. There is much less room for doubt snyway. Also in Spain you are allowed to exceed the posted limit to overtake on their version of A roads. A sensible and safe rule.
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I agree - road and signage engineering is very poor these days (too many and confusing). To me, the worst offenders aren't on motorways with the variable limits or local speed traps to cath people out for revenue-raising, but the configuration and policing of bus lanes, which, to me, is atrocious.
I'm sure many of us have got caught out (and caught) by such arrangements, especially when the bus lanes aren't continuous and signage is only just before they occur, not helped if the (car) driver is driving through an unfamiliar area. Several (including some I've been lucky with) often start just before left turns to busy shopping car parks for no reason, leaving one lane of bumper-to-bumper traffic, or just after junctions with no warning for traffic in the left hand lane at the lights, who then cause gridlock when they realise after the lights go green they're in the wrong lane and block the road trying to move over.
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Agreed re bus lanes etc - We have visited sheffield a few times recently (son at uni) and the combo of major roadworks, trams and bus lanes is a nightmare. Last time I was there I got stuck in a loop where the only way out was to drive through a bus lane - fortunately nothing in the post
Re speeding camera "tax" - usually it's a simple tax to avoid, just don't speed! However I do object to some speed camera areas with poor speed limit signeage. I remeber driving around Nottingham (I don't live here) not knowing the speed limit so I dropped to 30mph to be sure - it was only after a while I spotted 50mph repeater signs that had fallen down (rusted at the base)
Edited by Big John on 30/03/2017 at 23:14
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Its an emotive subject this speeding business and Ive had my share of tickets, but Im a good boy now clean for the last 12 years. I run a motorbike as well as a car so you can imagin the risks. I think the cops get double bonus points for motorbikes.
Working with and having friends that are traffic engineers there are a few things Ive picked up. Its the Highway agency not the police that set speed limits, central government for motorways and trunk roads and local councils for other roads. Enforcement is the police but the locations of cameras are done jointly after looking at accident records and public complains ect. There are national guidelines that in some detail are used to determin speed limits.
Most but not all police forces use a 10% +2 rule meaning in say a 40 limit you can do 46 before you get a fixed penalty but if you are behaving like a divit they will give you a ticket for 41mph. This is to allow for overtaking and errors in calibration of equipment. I know of a force in Yorkshire and one in Wales that dont give any margin.
The question of revenue, well yes the police try to optimise revenue. One example is where there were two possible camera sites, one road had half a dozen minor bumps and the other had two more serious accidents with people injured. The police were adamant the camera went on the road with the minor bumps because it had much higher traffic flow and would raise more revenue. Speaks for itself really.
A strange one. I know of one road where its a 30 limit in one direction and a 40 in the other. Ever seen that before?
Edited by Stanb Sevento on 31/03/2017 at 11:44
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Pedant alert - the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph is the threshold where they start to prosecute - so use 45 in a 40 limit, not 46.
Edited by RT on 31/03/2017 at 12:40
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"...the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph is the threshold where they start to prosecute..."
My understanding is that though this guideline will often be followed, prosecution could result if a speed is recorded only slightly in excess of the limit.
Prosecution is at the discretion of individual officers and police forces.
Edited by FP on 31/03/2017 at 13:11
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"...the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph is the threshold where they start to prosecute..."
My understanding is that though this guideline will often be followed, prosecution could result if a speed is recorded only slightly in excess of the limit.
Prosecution is at the discretion of individual officers and police forces.
Correct - it's only a guideline - not all police authorities use the guideline - and even those that do may decide to prosecute at 1mph over in specific circumstances.
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Pedant alert - the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph is the threshold where they start to prosecute - so use 45 in a 40 limit, not 46.
Presumably the penalty threshold is the accurate, true speed - usually several percent below the speedo reading. Hence the generous allowance of 10%. This is usually borne out by those automatic signs which indicate the speed of each approaching vehicle.
So unless your speedo is faulty - not often the case with digital ones, tho the old mechanical speedos sometimes were dodgy - you should be safe from penalty driving at an indicated 10% over the limit.
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So unless your speedo is faulty - not often the case with digital ones, tho the old mechanical speedos sometimes were dodgy -
I'm not aware that digital speedometers are anymore accurate than the traditional analogue "clocks" - they just look as though they are more accurate because of the readout. There are variables such as the amount of tyre tread, etc. which render all speeedometers inaccurate.
A better indicator would be the value computed by GPS on sat-navs - just so long as one is driving in a straight line on a level road of course!
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Pedant alert - the ACPO guideline of 10% +2mph is the threshold where they start to prosecute - so use 45 in a 40 limit, not 46.
Presumably the penalty threshold is the accurate, true speed - usually several percent below the speedo reading. Hence the generous allowance of 10%. This is usually borne out by those automatic signs which indicate the speed of each approaching vehicle.
So unless your speedo is faulty - not often the case with digital ones, tho the old mechanical speedos sometimes were dodgy - you should be safe from penalty driving at an indicated 10% over the limit.
Since speedometers cannot legally under-read, there's no point in the 10% "concession" other than prevent admin overload is fines every driver each time they go out!
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