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Now retired after many years in the trade... Hmmm
I cannot for the life of me understand why the great british (and others) public have been so stupid and believed the lies myths and propaganda that have been peddled for so many years,
And not just for the motorcar.
Edited by oldroverboy. on 17/11/2015 at 18:28
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The majority of headlights of oncoming cars don't glare but some do. The ones that I find acceptable are generally yellow. The worst ones tend to be brilliant white. It's not really the colour, it's the way they are set. Its not that I want to go back to the 1960s, although headlamps of that era were not all that bad. Most were as good as the present day ones. The 1960s were days when the maximum speed was as fast as your car could go. My brother in law had a Jaguar and regularly did 90 mph in areas that are now limited to 40 mph.
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I cannot for the life of me understand why the great british (and others) public have been so stupid and believed the lies myths and propaganda that have been peddled for so many years,And not just for the motorcar.
You and me both ORB, incredible that otherwise seemingly intelligent people believe what thay are told from cradle to grave, it starts when they're in short trousers at the modern equivalent of school, as they get older it seems to be the shinier the suit, the more sickening the politicians death grimace and spiel, the more earnest or plain nasty the reporter with innuendo and bias, the more they are trusted and believed without question.
As for testing, i've often said the type approval system needs scrapping...one tiny example being the automated manual gearbox in my lorry and standard fitment in at least two other makes...had i been a test driver at MIRA,Milbrook or wherever these things are put through their paces, assuming that is they are tested at all and the maker's word isn't taken as fact as tyre ratings?
i'd have got about 50 yards max from the canteen stopped the test abandoned the vehicle where it came to rest and scrawled in large red letters on the appraisal form ''totally unfit for purpose put it where it belongs in the skip and shove a proper industrial quality gearbox in like you used to when you made vehicles capable of a days work''.
Edited by gordonbennet on 17/11/2015 at 19:42
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GB my SIL has been a Texaco tanker driver for quite a number of years and he tells me that when Wincanton changed to automatic gearboxes the drivers didn't want them, but now they all say including John that none of them would go back to the old manual type.
I suppose its horses for courses.
wemyss
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I still think the 4 over 4 boxes take alot of beating although I spent alot of time driving a 3 pedal Actros with EPS and I quite liked that.
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GB my SIL has been a Texaco tanker driver for quite a number of years and he tells me that when Wincanton changed to automatic gearboxes the drivers didn't want them, but now they all say including John that none of them would go back to the old manual type.
I suppose its horses for courses.
wemyss
Yes i hear that often enough, but there's more than personal preference at stake here.
Lorry drivers really are their own worse enemies, so many of them cannot see how their rush to dumb the job down to lowest common denominator and avoid any graft has hit them in the pocket over time by oversubscribing our industry with basically anyone.
There was a time when you needed to be a lorry driver and a pretty strong one at that to drive the things and do the job which was hard and dirty, now any fool can drive a modern lorry, it's the case of stick it D and steer it...the problem being that any idiot can and wants to do it now its easy, hence unless one specialises in a sub sector or gets with the dirt/rough, lowest common wages apply.
Ironically, going auto and easy life hasn't really worked out for such operators either if they could but see it, they've increasingly recruited people who wouldn't have lasted a week in the previous years, with all the downsides that such people bring, and those who are not in that group get tarred with the idiot brush...the saving grace for logistics style operators is that the such people come cheap, whether cheap enough to make up for the horrendous costs is a subject that could be discussed at length but would bore most here so i'll shut up now..:-)
Edited by gordonbennet on 20/11/2015 at 22:45
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they've increasingly recruited people who wouldn't have lasted a week in the previous years,
That reminds me of the company I worked for some years ago, They only had trucks with Eaton twin split transmissions. If you came and could not drive it, you didn't get the job. It worked to some degree.
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Hmmm ... maybe if we went back to the horrible weedy headlights of the 1970s/1980s ?
While we're at it, we could go back to the minimal crash protection and quick-rusting BL cars of the same era too !
The point is not that headlights are too bright, too many are badly adjusted, also, headlights on 4 x 4s are higher and therefore a particular problem both for oncoming traffic and when they are behind you: they also seem especially proud of them, using them in broad daylight (as well as LED DRLs).
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I borrowed a 520D recently and was exceptionally disappointed with the headlights, which I thought would be retina-burners and open up a whole new world of night driving to me. Like dim candles they were. Our Fiat Panda has the best lights of our fleet, as does the Focus. Our Octavia's are woeful.
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Hmmm ... maybe if we went back to the horrible weedy headlights of the 1970s/1980s ?
While we're at it, we could go back to the minimal crash protection and quick-rusting BL cars of the same era too !
The point is not that headlights are too bright, too many are badly adjusted, also, headlights on 4 x 4s are higher and therefore a particular problem both for oncoming traffic and when they are behind you: they also seem especially proud of them, using them in broad daylight (as well as LED DRLs).
As I said before (somewhere) headlights should be the same height from the ground on all motors, and as some look totally daft on some cars anyway, a set height is not going to cause problems imo
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QUOTE: ""While we're at it, we could go back to the minimal crash protection and quick-rusting BL cars of the same era too ! ""
Not to mention the even quicker rusting Vauxhalls and Renaults of the same era!
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<< As I said before (somewhere) headlights should be the same height from the ground on all motors, and as some look totally daft on some cars anyway, a set height is not going to cause problems >>
I agree there. But headlights serve two purposes - to see and to be seen. Fairly dim lights are good enough to be seen by. But in recent decades headlamps have been getting steadily brighter. The result is that the driver can see better, but - especially in certain conditions - all other road users can see less. Their only recourse is to fit brighter lamps, so leapfrogging gradually makes things worse. It's partly because the lamps are meant for daytime use, and no attempt is made to moderate the output at night.
It's time makers stopped encouraging this beggar-my-neighbour on the roads.
Edited by Andrew-T on 17/11/2015 at 23:21
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Headlights that are incorrectly set are a real menace, especially round the dark country lanes where I live. 4x4's are endemic round here and the newer ones are a real nuisance with owners thinking they make them immortal. However just as bad are the high intensity rear lights which are switched on at the first sign of even moderately bad weather. They also then sit at junctions with the foot on the brake pedal, blinding the bejesus out of the poor soul behind them. Inconsideration is now part of our national culture.
Bah Humbug.
Cheers Concrete
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Headlights that are incorrectly set are a real menace, especially round the dark country lanes where I live. 4x4's are endemic round here and the newer ones are a real nuisance with owners thinking they make them immortal. However just as bad are the high intensity rear lights which are switched on at the first sign of even moderately bad weather. They also then sit at junctions with the foot on the brake pedal, blinding the bejesus out of the poor soul behind them. Inconsideration is now part of our national culture.
Bah Humbug.
Cheers Concrete
I think incorrectly aligned lights are the worst,some of the brighter lamps are supposed to be designed not to dazzle the oncoming driver and are poorly set up.
some bulb manufacturers claim that their brighter lamps give better light and are designed for clearer view with cleaner cut off point so should be better for other drivers?
but am finding a lot of drivers still dont switch their lights on at lighting up time and drive around without lights even late at night
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Some original equipment headlights have a bluish or pinkish tint to them. Add to that people who fit coloured lights on the front of their vehicles - blue or green. Lorry drivers, who ought to know better, are the worst offenders, with arrays of coloured lights on the fronts of their vehicles and even bright LED decorations inside the cab, which must compromise night vision for the driver.
These garish decorations on lorries hardly promote an image of professionalism and are illegal, since a vehicle is only allowed to show white lights to the front, apart from indicators.
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Some original equipment headlights have a bluish or pinkish tint to them. Add to that people who fit coloured lights on the front of their vehicles - blue or green. Lorry drivers, who ought to know better, are the worst offenders, with arrays of coloured lights on the fronts of their vehicles and even bright LED decorations inside the cab, which must compromise night vision for the driver.
These garish decorations on lorries hardly promote an image of professionalism and are illegal, since a vehicle is only allowed to show white lights to the front, apart from indicators.
True enough, but traffic cars enforcing such misdemeanours are as rare as hens' teeth round here.
The same goes for tailgaters, loud exhausts on mopeds, in fact any sort of motoring offence (except speeding/no tax/no insurance, which the cameras pick up!)
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Pinkish tinge to very bright headlights? You do realise that a pinkish tinge is a sign that your HID bulb is about to expire. So not a fancy schmancy bulb just one on it's last legs.
Too bright headlights? Last night I pulled out in front of a car that looked a long way away. Turned out it was closer than I thought (still some distance) it just had utterly cwap front lights. One sidelight and one weedy half dead headlight. So if you have a 56 plate Tuareg with virtually zero front lighting and you were near Witham on the A12 last night...sorry but thats your fault. Shame on you for being such a dozy tightwad.
Go to HulFurds and BUY A BULB (they'll even fit it for you for free).
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Some original equipment headlights have a bluish or pinkish tint to them. Add to that people who fit coloured lights on the front of their vehicles - blue or green. Lorry drivers, who ought to know better, are the worst offenders, with arrays of coloured lights on the fronts of their vehicles and even bright LED decorations inside the cab, which must compromise night vision for the driver.
These garish decorations on lorries hardly promote an image of professionalism and are illegal, since a vehicle is only allowed to show white lights to the front, apart from indicators.
Not bothered about tints or stupid coloured bulbs, they are the least of the problems, incorrectly set up headlights are the main problem and those that drive along with bright interior lights on so they can read the paper on the steering wheel/can see where their cup of coffee is
decorated lorries are ok as long as the driver can see where hes going and most i`ve seen are dimly lit inside anyway
afaik coloured lights on a car are not illegal unless you can see the bulb
please correct if wrong?
Edited by bolt on 19/11/2015 at 16:07
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I suspect that the drivers of ultra-bright dipped beams are confident that they can see far ahead enough to go beyond the speed they should be doing. As one BR wrote, they can see but prevent others from seeing.
Another thing, the practice of saying 'thank you' by giving a brief flash of the ultra-bright main beams, thus blinding the driver who was so kind as to give way to you is very bad manners.
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>the practice of saying 'thank you' by giving a brief flash of the ultra-bright main beams, thus blinding the driver who was so kind as to give way to you is very bad manners.<
Unless your on the receiving end you dont know your blinding them!
but I wonder how some pass MOT`s with poorly aligned headlights of which are many.
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but I wonder how some pass MOT`s with poorly aligned headlights of which are many.
By using the leveller adjuster to lower them for the test and put them back up to suit afterwards.
If this were another forum some smart alec's would have come up with the 'visit the opticians' or 'a problem for older drivers only' well worn chestnuts by now.
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but I wonder how some pass MOT`s with poorly aligned headlights of which are many.
By using the leveller adjuster to lower them for the test and put them back up to suit afterwards.
If this were another forum some smart alec's would have come up with the 'visit the opticians' or 'a problem for older drivers only' well worn chestnuts by now.
There must be some clever drivers out there then;) most I know dont know where the dipstick is let alone adjust the headlamp aim
had it been another forum, I may have been rude to anyone that advised that ;-)
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Another thing, the practice of saying 'thank you' by giving a brief flash of the ultra-bright main beams, thus blinding the driver who was so kind as to give way to you is very bad manners.
I make a point of switching my headlights down to side lights briefly for exactly the reason you describe, has the same effect of saying thanks but doesn't destroy their night vision.
Personally, I was always a fan of the old dim-dip which enabled you to been seen under street lighting but didn't add to the light pollution on our streets.
With the level of the brightness as it is on our night time streets I am amazed, given the modern fashion for pedestrians/cyclists to dress in the darkest clothing possible, that casualty rates haven't spiralled; many are now more invisible than the 'Invisible Man'.
With regard to people sitting at lights, etc., with their brake lights burning out your retinas, I have been told that this is now the taught method during driving lessons now and does not attract critique on a driving test. My son tells me this was not the case when he was being taught four years ago, so has this been changed? Plus there doesn't seem to be a limit on how bright the modern LED brake lights can be. Must say that I'm often tempted to give the culprits 10 or 20 seconds of main beam after we pull away and I can hit their mirrors effectively, but I'm too nice......
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<< Plus there doesn't seem to be a limit on how bright the modern LED brake lights can be. Must say that I'm often tempted to give the culprits 10 or 20 seconds of main beam after we pull away and I can hit their mirrors effectively, but I'm too nice...... >>
As I remarked some while ago, the early versions of the much-lamented Triumph 1300 saloon (late 60s) had a relay which dimmed the rear lamps when headlamps were on. I think it was deleted when that model became the Dolomite, to cut cost of course. These days there must be a simpler trick to achieve this?
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When I thank a fellow motorist at night I switch off the headlights momentarily when I'm quite close. It doesn't trouble me but it aids their vision.
One of my young friends who is a keen cyclist sent me this link. If a lorry driver fom the elevated height of the cab suffers from glare, how much more so would an ordinary motorist.
"Police suggested that a combination of the rain and glare from lights in the opposite lane might have prevented the lorry driver from seeing the cyclist until it was too late. There was no mention of slowing down if he could not see what was in front of him because of the weather conditions."
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Hillman i haven't a clue where the statement quoted comes from, any clues?
You'd think that being up in a lorry glare would be less of a problem, and generally that is the case, except for a few given sets of circumstances, two or three of which i'll try to describe, badly as usual.
1. Being high up you don't get a couple of sets of rear lights in your face, on a busy motorway you get the benefit of hundreds and the added reflections off the wet road just to top them up, the same goes for headlights coming the other way, if its a line or several lanes of cars then we can see all the lights, admittedly not getting quite the same individual blast from 3 million lumen dipped lights that everyone now needs to cruise a car's length from the vehicle they are tailgating.
2. Cars coming the other way on quiet motorways and dual carriageways don't always dip their lights at all, if you are in a car the Armco stops you getting the full benefit of burned retinas, but up in the cab you see all.
3. Approaching cars coming over the horizon or brow of a long slope don't realise nor care less about dipping till they see the headlights of the oncoming vehicle, they don't worry about the trailer top marker lights, nor the tractor top markers, nor the light reflecting from the driver's by now red eyes either, they wait until they see the headlights which can be a long period later.
If you are up in the cab you can have the full benefit of their main beam for a lot longer than a car driver would. Some lorries have spotlights on the roof and this is the one scenario they can come in handy as the persistant blinder can have 2/4/6 times their blinding favour returned...not as i do this nor would do it, i don't have lights on the roof of mine and on our Scanias so fitted (they come on with main beam if turned on) i switch them off anyway.
4. My biggest bugbear by far is silly over the top LED brake lights, just resting your foot on the brake pedal shouldn't produce eyeball melting LED flicker, the full intensity should mean serious braking and not come on for gentle slowing down...if you can see LED flickr, not everyone can, it makes judging the rate of deceleration difficult if not impossible, where 2 x standard 21w strandard bulbs allow that to be judged.
The light wars have reached stupid levels now in so many ways.
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Sorry GB, the link follows :
www.ctc.org.uk/news/20151113-lorry-driver-expected...r
I've never ridden in a lorry cab so I spoke (wrote) from ignorance.
Now, what are going to do about glare ? Can we petition the authorities to bring back the MOT headlamps check ? My car has a graduated control wheel for headlamp dipped beam height. The higher the number the lower the beam is aimed, and as factory settings the wheel is at 0. I have mine set at 1 so I practice what I preach. I used to have it set at 2 but found the beams were inadequate for the twisty country roads.
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Thanks Hillman, hope my post didn't come over as having a go at you, it most certainly wasn't meant that way, i probably phrased it poorly, hardly unusual that.
Horrible tragedy, it would appear from how i read that report that the cyclist was already on the dual carriageway and the lorry entered the dual via a slip road and hit the cyclist somewhere along the slip road/acceleration lane, well thats how i read it but glad to be put right if that's wrong.
I don't know the junction, but didn't dual slip roads used to be marked out with cycle crossings so the cyclist followed the edge of the junction and wasn't exposed to the full length of slip road, an eminently sesnible idea that and should be so for every junction..yes the main road cycle event racers will be up in arms but main roads are now far too dangerous for such events anyway IMHO...unless you happen to live in south wales in which case industry and life in general can come to a complete stop whilst some total incompetents made a right pigs ear of weekend cycle events this summer causing utter mayhem to Newport and surrounds.
Some good folk that live and work in the Crumlin triangle unable to get in or out by road due to some of the most incompetent traffic mismanagement and anti-marshalling the world has ever seen,
There's many things going wrong at the moment, and the light wars have made life far more dangerous for less conspicuous road users not equipped to flood the road with light, their only defence being masses of lights plus hi-vis clothing reflectors and the like which some cyclists use sensibly, others don't, and some pedestrians seem hell bent on becoming victims by wearing de-rigeur black at all times and wandering aimlessly on the road with headphones glued to their shell likes, Darwin where are you?
I have level adjusters on all our cars, and on my lorry too, in all cases i have them set at a sensible height, but in the lorry in particular being German it has a sharp cut off dipped beam to the right and straight ahead which angles up sharply to the left, so even at sensible height anyone caught by the left side of the vehicle, at say a junction on the left, or on the rare times i overtake a slow moving car they third party will get a nasty blinding light that i can do nothing about for some seconds.
Generally we arn't going to do anything about glare, if anything it'll get worse as the older cars with bulbs disappear and fairly ridiculously lit vehicles replace them.
Quite why people have fallen for this, including stupidly bright (and far too camp dear) DRL's is beyond me.
You can see from posts here and on other forums that vehicle drivers are obsessed with being lit up at all times, forgetting that the more light pollution there is, the more night vision is destroyed for everyone and the less chance of the poor semi lit cylcist/pedestrian being seen at all as they vanish behind the glare.
It will also get worse due to the other elephant in the room that no-one dare mention less fingers get pointed at them, and that is the constant unending increase in population (don't worry i won't mention the i word so heart palpitations won't follow.:-) leading to ever more traffic.
Edited by gordonbennet on 21/11/2015 at 21:50
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You'll be pleased, i'm sure-:) to know that i'm working tomorrow (so you get some peace till mid afternoon), you want yer best toasty loaf doncha, and if i remember to i've got some measuring to do so i can add something to that last post about visibility, or lack of it.
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I don't much like working on a Sunday (apart from playing the organ in church) so this is an opportunity to express thanks to people like you, GB, who are prepared to do so.
Bread is a good example: farmers, deliverers, bakers and retailers all work on Sundays to get us, as you say, our nice toasty loaf.
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Sorry GB, the link follows :
www.ctc.org.uk/news/20151113-lorry-driver-expected...r
I've never ridden in a lorry cab so I spoke (wrote) from ignorance.
Now, what are going to do about glare ? Can we petition the authorities to bring back the MOT headlamps check ? My car has a graduated control wheel for headlamp dipped beam height. The higher the number the lower the beam is aimed, and as factory settings the wheel is at 0. I have mine set at 1 so I practice what I preach. I used to have it set at 2 but found the beams were inadequate for the twisty country roads.
Firstly, headlamp aim IS supposed to be checked at MOT test - but won't be done until cars are 3 years old (unless done at servicing, unlikely)
Secondly, the control wheel on my car (and, I suspect others) adjusts main beam as well as dip beam.
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