Hello - I just wandered if anyone in this forum can pass an informed eye on the fuel economy I am getting ( or not getting ) from my Sept 2005 Diesel Espace 2.2DCi (non-FAP apparently). It is a 5 speed Auto with the "tiptronic" option - i.e pushing the stick to the left turns it into a clutchless manual. I have tried using both methods. I am not new to automatics and have never had ANY car give such poor fuel consumption in 20 years of car ownership, let alone a diesel.
I bought it used about 2 months ago with 26k on the clock, and have added about 3.5k since. No matter how I drive it - and I am a careful driver, I cannot get better than 25mpg. The only passengers I carry are my wife and 3 year old daughter, but most of the time it's just me. I drive a mixture of about-town and motorway/A roads.
It has gotten to the stage where whenever I see a similar Espace parked somewhere, I loiter to ask the owners what they get ! I haven't found anyone that says they get less than 32mpg at worst, and one of those was a Grand Espace. But then again, none have had an automatic.
I asked Honest John who suggested a figure of low thirties was probably more realistic, and he suggested I should also work out the consumption using the traditional pump to pump method, rather than relying on the car's computer - but I get more or less the same result.
Does anyone else out there own a 2.2 DCi Espace Auto, adn can you confirm if I am unlucky or is this the norm ? Before taking the plunge I did as much research as possible even downloading the spec sheets for my very model (the 2.2 DCI Ellen McArthur Globe edition) to chek the mpg figures. I know they are not written in stone but, still, it shouldn't be this bad - should it ??
Digressing, has anyone else found that when you have the Auto-headlight feature activated, if you drive through somewhere dark eg. a tunnel or under trees, the lights come on but then fail to go back off when you enter a normally lit area ?
PS - at a tangent - here's a tip if your seat belt alarm keeps going off - you've probably got something - even something as light as a book, on the passenger seat.
I have to ask, if all you carry is the wife and three year old child, why did a buy a barge as big as an Espace? I assume it is used to carry other stuff?
You are also aware that you completely ignore the Renault servicing regime and get it the oil changed at least every 10k miles or once a year. Think about getting the egr valve cleaned once a year as well.
I had the car in with the dealer today for them to take a look at - they connected it to their diagnostic computer and said everything was hunky dory; I asked about EGR valve and turbo and they said these were both OK. So I guess back to square one !
I think they reckon it is more to do with my style of driving, but I've never had a problem getting near the quoted mpg on other cars I've owned.
Not sure about the cracked manifold thing - am I guessing right that anything like that would have shown up on the diagnostic ? The car is out of warranty by 2 months.
I went for the Espace as before this I had a VW Sharan which was useful for lugging my auction furniture buys about, and for when family come to visit a 7 seater is really useful; rather than go for another Sharan I fancied a change. Incidentally the Sharan never gave me less than 39mpg and I used to treat it much less gingerly; I guess I am still going through the honeymoon period with the Espace.
I really love the car - everything about it except the MPG; I suppose I was hoping that someone out there might also own a 2.2 DCi auto, to see what their experiences are.
Well, further to comment above, one of the Espaces was mine (it is a manual 2.2DCi). It was the drop in fuel economy that started my deep and meaningful relationship with the garage (nearly up for them coming round for Christmas).
3 weeks ago I had the timing belt changed (I do a reasonable amount of miles). I subsequently found a drop from 35-39 mpg to 23-25 mpg and a drop-off of power at the top-end. The engineer found that there was a small timing issue with the pump driven by the timing belt, however did not correct the drop in mpg. Then when I took it back and parked next to near identical Espace, that's when the engineer looked at my Espace and confirmed it had the same issue as the other one.
Apologies for longer than planned response, only the manifold story was never on the agenda - I thought timing belt was out of synch. It may be worth the question to your local garage to check it out.
Very complicated engines handled by not very competent main dealers! Have you thought of taking your car to an independent diesel specialist? From the hundreds of posts here over the years re Renault diesels I think it is fair to say that many of the 'Honeymoons' end in divorce!
I have a Lag Sports Tourer 11 2.2dci Auto 2004 which goes very well - but you must look after it properly. (Same for other cars!) You need to use a 5w/40 100% synthetic oil eg Shell Helix Ultra Diesel or Mobil 1 and I clean the EGR valve every year and the throttle damper unit every 2 years. Fuel consumption, at is best in warm weather and on long runs, which I mainly use it for, averages 39.5mpg and on a long run >41 mpg. You can check this from the computer if you reset it when on a motorway type road. Conversely, fuel consumption is not good in cold weather especially on any short runs when it is not properly warmed up. I wonder if your thermostat is faulty.
I aim to use Shell Diesel when I can, which gives me more MPG and avoid "brands" which do not. (It must be to do with the additives because they all come out of the same tank in many parts of the UK.) I also notice a drop in consumption when the winter diesel comes in ~ mid - end Sept. It is noticeable when the EGR valve has been cleaned,as it pulls away well and fuel consumption is very good. The opposite applies when it gets dirty. I question whether your garage cleaned the EGR valve as it sounds like they checked out if it was "working" on the CLIP computer. But there is a little more to it than that. I had the turbo checked recently at my local Renault dealer who tell me that their latest tool is a flexible video camera, which they insert down the air "pipes" to inspect the turbo in operation. Apparently there is a very light spray of oil round the bearings when it is running which produces a film of oil in the post intercooler inlet pipe, which is "normal". This, in turn, leads to the EGR and throttle damper unit gathering black sludge which needs cleaning as mentioned. But the frequency might be different in your case. Hope this is helpful.
I have a 53 2.2DCi manual Grand Privilege. For the first 70000 miles it consistently turned in a slightly disappointing 26-30mpg. Around 70000 miles it suffered for the second time the common fault of these engines of loss of power/ warning lights/stuttering at low revs. The first time this had happened (50,000 m) was due to a faulty (probably actually just very dirty) EGR valve which was replaced by a French Renault dealer: the second time the diagnostics pointed to a faulty Air-Flow Sensor and dirty EGR valve. The fault was cured but of note was the fact that the fuel consumption is now 29-35mpg, a substantial improvement. I'm no engineer but presumably this is down to the replacement of that Air-Flow sensor, whether in itself, or whatever adjustments the technicians make when they replace this part.
Like you I had a Sharan 1.9TDi and a Seat Alhambra before this and they both returned around 40mpg, but it's fairly clear that the Espace is a substantially bigger and heavier car than those are (and way way nicer to drive) so one would expect the economy to be worse. I believe the new 2.0 DCi engine is achieving close to 40 in the Espace with the same BHP as the 2.2.
You might also consider turning the AC off. Even in winter the Climate control will use the AC much of the time to balance the heater, although remember to turn it back on at least once a month for a while to keep the compressor working properly. That should improve mpg a bit.
I have an 07 2.2 dci auto grand espace (bought just after Christmas) that was doing 16mpg around town, 22mpg average, never more than 28mpg possible (even after reset of trip and driving on flat with no acceleration etc). Now a grand espace with auto box was never going to be fantastic on mpg but this seemed way below the manufacturers figures.
Took it to Renault Garage who put the clip on it, drove it for 5 miles got 22mpg and said the computer wasn't showing anything wrong with it, so nothing they could do.
Took it to a car tuning clinic (Abbeyhill in Edinburgh) with rolling road. Clip tests and Power curve was normal (approx 133bhp and good torque) but as part of the test it gets fully rev'ed and loaded (speed upto 100mph). They asked me to check how responsive it felt after the test as apparently doing this can push out a whole load of clag from the catalytic converter.... couldn't tell much difference in power but....
mpg is now 30-33 mpg after a run of mixed motorway and 30-50mph driving (rather than 22mpg as before).
so I'm happy (thanks to the car tuning clinic, even though I didn't tune anything!). It's also a bit warmer now which may have helped a bit but the difference does seem dramatic!
This reminds me of my never-ending nightmare with a 2003 Vel Satis (same engine). Got to 75k and thought I'd better have the cam belt done. Came out with a major oil leak where previously it had none. Garage denied any liability but eventually replaced all main oil seals. Seemingly these often go around this mileage on Renaults anyway. Now instead of losing oil I'm using it, gallons of it. My researches point to either a warped rocker cover (possibly removed during cam belt change?) which can mix inlet and exhaust gases, or (nightmare scenario) cracked inlet manifold, which sets me up for another grand after the grand I've already shelled out this year alone. The oil use arises (apparently) because the turbo boosts into the rocker box and generally overpressurises the engine. Oil seals can fail as a result, or dipstick can even get blown out. Oil that has been blown into cracked manifold seeps back into inlet pipework and blows out when you start it again from cold (clouds of white smoke). Anyway I understand now why one of the forums I've visited has tips from a user who calls himself 'renaultneveragain'
05 2.2 DCi Auto poor fuel economy -
I have just got over this situation of using a gallon of engine oil in 3 days on my 03 Espace. 65,000 genuine miles on the clock.
Expensive repairs - The inlet manifold was damaged.
Mine went to full throttle and stayed there running on it's own engine oil. Nothing would turn it off for several minutes until it slowed on it's own. Luckily it was sat on my drive at the time, I had only blipped the throttle down to see if it smoked and got more than I bargained for.
Renault changed many parts in the process of elimination and charged me for every one of them so be careful! A good independent garage can do just as good a job if not better. I expected Renault to know what the fault would be with so many cars seeming to have the problem but this appears not to be the case, they seem to change as much as possible before you get annoyed.
I now use an independent and have had very good service & at a much lower cost with far more reliability.
The EGR valve plays up and if the flap does not close quickly enough it puts the engine into a safe mode that makes it run very slowly. These cars need running on long journeys at a good engine rev from time to time to keep the EGR clean. I use fully synthetic oil now to help avoid sludging up the valve so quickly.
If I knew where the valve was located I could probably clean it myself.
When a Renault is good - it is very good. But when it is bad it is VERY EXPENSIVE.
I have had 2 new Diesel Espace (model before this one) and this one has been the most expensive to repair although the older model was very problamatic at low mileage too. This will be my last Renault - bad value for money if bought fairly new.
You are not on your own! My 2007 2.2 Grand Espace's computer reports around 25mpg although a 200 mile day out when the roads are not clogged can bring on a top figure of 33mpg. I can make tyres last 30K plus so it cannot be my driving technique (99% within the posted speed limits)! Nice car - now the ABS and hopeless alarm fixed. Guarantee runs out in March, perhaps it is time to say goodbye! Another notable feature is £415 VED which other owners cannot believe - this must be brought on by the brilliant automatic gearbox and / or a bad hair (test) day.
* Heavy right foot and high revs before gear changes
*Cold weather driving
*Short journeys using a cold inefficient engine
*EGR not cleaned annually (easy job for a competant individual)
*The use of inferior quality engine oil
*Nursing the engine resulting in the exhaust system getting clogged up with carbon deposits
*Incorrect tyre pressures, check weeky
*Inferior fuel, only use good brands that have the performance / cleaner burn additives (i.e. Texaco,Shell, BP)
Regarding tyres, I get 18000 miles out of my fronts and 35000 plus out of my rears (Maxxis Victra MA-Z1 245/45 R 18 100 W) and I have "a don't hang around driving style", I also regularly tow a half ton single axle trailer and the fuel consumption drops by 2 to 3mpg on the summer and winter 10 mile journeys.
I hope this info may be of use to other Espace owners as it is a brill vehicle ifd looked after and maintained correctly !!!!
Edited by sophieelliefergus on 21/02/2012 at 22:22
Hello - I just wandered if anyone in this forum can pass an informed eye on the fuel economy I am getting ( or not getting ) from my Sept 2005 Diesel Espace 2.2DCi (non-FAP apparently). It is a 5 speed Auto with the "tiptronic" option - i.e pushing the stick to the left turns it into a clutchless manual. I have tried using both methods. I am not new to automatics and have never had ANY car give such poor fuel consumption in 20 years of car ownership, let alone a diesel. I bought it used about 2 months ago with 26k on the clock, and have added about 3.5k since. No matter how I drive it - and I am a careful driver, I cannot get better than 25mpg..............
Hi I have been looking at buying one of these (albeit manual) and you may want to have a look at getting the engine management system software upgraded/remapped. From other forums there appears to be an issue with the mapping of some models which results in poor mpg. One chap said he had to tell the Renault dealer what to look for before they would believe there was an issue with the vehicle and engine management. Apparently he had legitimate access to Renault service notes. Since there are upgrades, Renault obviously know but do not advertise the fact there is a problem. At my local garage, non-dealer independant, he has a chap who can remap the engines with the correct software. I know this as I had to have a Scenic remapped to correct a problem of lack of power.
I hope you sort out the problem.
I just need to decide whether to buy the car I have had a look at now.