I take your point RT, but it's more a case of perceived fuel consumption in many cases. My diesel Freelander only managed 30.1 mpg (calculated) in 35,000 miles. My XT is showing exactly 30.0 mpg on the OBC (so far all local trips). Although the first tank was a little under 28 it is gradually improving. I've read of owners achieving low thirties true mpg and met someone the other day with an XT who had achieved 29.8 actual in the last year doing mostly short local journeys but had managed over 40mpg actual on longer trips. I know it's not brilliant,but quite an improvement on the 25 mpg my 2004 SG Forester 2.0 XT managed. Also bearing in mind the 240 ps engine this isn't bad compared with a Legacy Spec B my son had which had a similar power engine (245ps) and was lucky to achieve mid 20's even on a run.
A browse of the Spirit Monitor website where you can see real world fuel consumption figures soon shows that the ridiculous claims of the manufacturers regarding diesel fuel consumption are just that - ridiculous. I flirted with the idea of a BMW X3 diesel (nearly £10,000 more than a similarly loaded XT), but one of the complaints you read about them is the claimed mpg is impossible to achieve and generally the best you can expect is high 30's. The £10k saving buys an awful lot of 'cheaper' petrol and have you experienced that bag of nails of an engine?
Also, hasn't the tide turned on diesel?
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Not sure I understand the poor reviews.
Then again, Subaru's are cars that appeal to people who tend to keep cars for a long time, where sound engineering, toughness, reliability are preferred over the ability to make every drop of fuel last the distance.
I'm not sure that road testers have the same priorities when rating the cars.
I think my XT is fabulous to drive, despite it being 9 years old now. It just seems to take anything on the road in it's stride, and I find myself driving faster than I usually would, which is the danger.
There are things I would want to change. The soundproofing is virtually non-existent, the seats are designed for short people and have no lumbar support or side support, which you really need considering how well the car corners. But I do have a bad back, which makes it seem worse. Suspension can be a bit jolty from the rear - I don't agree with the 'good ride' reputation, not with my car anyway.
But it just works, day in, day out. It's extremely practical, a swiss army knife of a car, full of nice touches like the heating element in the windscreen to thaw out the wipers, or the full size sunroof. Really good aircon and heating, at home in all weathers.
It's a shame that the Saab 9-2X never came to fruition, because I would have been interested in one. A car with all the Subaru underpinnings but far more refined by the sound of it.
Whenever I sell mine, I know that I am going to miss a few things about it, that's for sure. I knew that it was going to be thirsty, but I hoped that the reliability would mean that I would only be spending on fuel and servicing, not repairs. So far it's paid off.
In this country they are a car to appeal to the minority, unlike USA or Australia. And it seems that the road testers think the same.
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I stopped taking notice of reviews in the motor magazines when I read, "...but Oh, those shiny plastics !".
Motor magazines now pay more attention to 'infomatics" and whether the 'music' system has the latest number of speakers as opposed to facts about the vehicle. I suppose that the motorist of today is less interested in practicalities. While I was waiting for my Outback to be attended to I read a copy of the subscribers edition of the TV clowns magazine reporting on various models of car. The writer said about Subaru, - I paraphrase - "Driving a Subaru is like going for a walk with your labrador in the country and model XXX is like what you have to pick up". Motoring journalists of today would be more at home writing about ladies fashions.
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I don't thnk the tide has turned on Diesel, the taxman has, we've seen a lot of (friendly to the govt of the day of whatever hue, cause) media softening up of the wide eyed car buying general public about how nasty Diesels are...funny how they were the best thing since Y-fronts 5 minutes ago but i digress...the govt has reaped the rewards of encouraging drivers to opt for low C02 Diesels by much lower tax receipts, both VED and fuel, they want some back.
Whether its to fund another war or two, give another several £billion to foreign dictators, or goodness me even slightly slow the rapidly increasing national debt is anyone's guess.
If our cities are clogged with fumes its because they are increasing in size/population at an unsustainable rate and those people need to move about, what did anyone think would happen.
Edited by gordonbennet on 17/12/2014 at 19:13
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The response of motoring journalists in general to a new car is directly related to the size of the maker's advertsing budget and the location of the road test.
If the test is in the UK but with lots of extras -like three days' accommodation (free of course) - then the car is good.
If the test is abroad on the Costa del somewhere warm and there is free travel and accommodaton then the car is brilliant.
Guess who spends the most on UK marketing? Ford, VAG and BMW..
Subaru spend peanuts on UK marketing.
(I am more than half serious,)
Some car reviews attempting to justify prejudices are risible, quoting facts on one car and ignoring them on another..
Just read some of the comments on Auto Express website..
Edited by madf on 17/12/2014 at 19:48
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The above discussion reminds me that it seems an awful long time since we had motoring journalists like LJK Setright who, despite training as a lawyer, appreciated engineering and was an early champion of Japanese engineering in general and Honda and Subaru in particular. He loved the flat boxer engines, especially the H6, and he saw the 6 cylinder engine as a necessary requirement for a true gentleman's conveyance. Interestingly, he was an early advocate of CVT and it would be interesting to see what he would have made of Subaru's recent efforts with the Lineartronic. I think it is remarkable, especially when mated to the petrol turbo with such incredibly linear power delivery. Of course Jeremy Clarkson hates them on theoretical grounds as they're not a proper gearbox. It seems Ford are abandoning the dual clutch idea and going back to CVT. I'm sure VAG will have to dump the dreadful DSG sooner or later now that it's flaws have been exposed.
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I'm sure VAG will have to dump the dreadful DSG sooner or later now that it's flaws have been exposed.
I woulnt bet on it, the flaws have been known for many years now yet they still sell.
How such a large company could get it so wrong is beyond me.
What makes even less sense is that people still buy them.
I think its because a lot of people here in the UK tend to lease their cars, or have company cars in which case they would be less bothered if the autobox broke.
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Honda are going the other way - using a DSG transmission but with a torque converter - so two shafts but no clutches.
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Anyone who has driven a Subaru would not give them a poor review. Of the three Subarus we owned, my only critisim could be economy and lack of rear passenger space in the Outback . They never let me down and were wonderful driving cars.
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I still at some point would like a Subaru. I test drove a Legacy diesel when my annual mileage was close to 20,000 a year, but it was pre facelift, very dated inside and the diesel wasn't brilliant.
Local dealer however is typical family outfit and very accommodating when you are interested - throw you the keys and let you out alone for an hour or so.
Now my mileage is 10,000 (probably less this year) and petrol is back on the agenda I looked at the new Impreza hatchback, but it was just a little too small.
However the new 2.0 petrol engine has improved mpg and makes it more attractive with decent urban mpg (mid 30s) and VED at £145 a year so I'll be taking a look at the Forester next time I am passing the dealership.
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Honda are going the other way - using a DSG transmission but with a torque converter - so two shafts but no clutches.
Even more complicated - the new 2015 CRV will have a 9 speed TC auto in the UK (both for new 1.6 Diesel 160BHP & new 2 litre petrol) & in the USA a CVT box on the 2.4 new petrol - no USA diesel!
Maybe the CVT box does not take the diesel torque? Hence the difference of TC here and CVT in US, Subaru toughened their CVT box to take the XT and diesel.
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The over-revving characteristic of CVT which wound so many pea-brained car reviewers up has now been engineered out. Nissan's excellent Xtronic CVT pulls the latest Quashqai diesel along as if it were a TC auto.
As for Toyota's M Drive CVT on their 1.8 Valvematic petrol Avensis and Verso...one of the best auto transimissions at any price, and gets 40mpg no bother. Makes DSG an over-engineered irrelevance.
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The over-revving characteristic of CVT which wound so many pea-brained car reviewers up has now been engineered out. Nissan's excellent Xtronic CVT pulls the latest Quashqai diesel along as if it were a TC auto.
As for Toyota's M Drive CVT on their 1.8 Valvematic petrol Avensis and Verso...one of the best auto transimissions at any price, and gets 40mpg no bother. Makes DSG an over-engineered irrelevance.
The Subaru CVT automatic is a development of Toyota's CVT (Subaru is part owned by Toyota) - just like the Subaru TC automatic was a development of the Jatco/Nissan TC autobox
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The Jazz CVT has 7 fixed ratios and a torque convertor.
It is very smooth with seamless changes .
I treat most (not all) motoring journalists as illiterate and innumerate fools who have no skills at their own job. Once you take that stance, you realise what they say and what they mean
are .. frankly .. junk.
See this comment on Reliability...of the AUDI A3 by AutoExpress:
"The A3 is an impressively safe car, having scored the maximum five stars in Euro NCAP's crash tests. Of particular note is its score of 95 per cent in the adult occupant protection category.
Audi has stocked the A3 with impressive levels of big-car safety kit, too. These include optional radar-controlled cruise control that maintains a set distance to the car in front, lane-keep assist, hill-hold assist and a pre-sense system to prepare the car in the event of an accident. Another optional safety feature is a self-park system that will help you get into a tight parking space.
The A3 also put in an impressive performance in 2014's Driver Power survey - coming in 16th place out of 150 cars. "
www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a3
And what do they acttaully SAY about reliability?
Err nothing...
Edited by madf on 18/12/2014 at 11:41
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I've stopped paying attention to car magazine reviews these days as well. They seem to fall for the usual hype as well (like the mythical VW reliability)
I think it was Auto Express who were praising the germanic qualities of the Golf GTi they had on test. Read the review in detail and it had a replacement gearbox at something like 5k miles - under warranty yes, but still hardly a sign of quality.
I tend to read up on owners forums for more specific information about a car I'm interested in - perfect example was my Vectra. Slated by the press but I liked it generally (I had 3!) and the forum support was brilliant.
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I would like to buy a Subaru and will do so when the dashboard and interior are half as good as BMWs or VWs. Until then I'll stick to my 5 series and Golf.
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I would like to buy a Subaru and will do so when the dashboard and interior are half as good as BMWs or VWs. Until then I'll stick to my 5 series and Golf.
Having owned a 2004 Forester I have to say the fourth generation (2013 on) is a massive improvement. It may not be up to BMW standards, but I would take the Subaru at £10k less and with better reliability, even if it is slightly cheaper looking. Regarding VW, my wife had 2 Golfs from new and the soft touch materials looked nice for about a year, but marked easily and wore badly. A lot of the so-called premium interiors are there simply to sell the cars in the showroom. What is the first thing most prospective buyers do in the showroom? They sit in the car. Talking to dealers it is incredible how many buyers never actually drive the car before they buy. Clearly the nice interiors are aimed at this market. Maybe Subaru are a bit naive, but I applaud their wish to make the engineering the priority.
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Last forester i drove i quite liked, the diesel was very good.
But it was over priced with the worst dash i have ever seen in any car. Way out of date.
I havent bothered to look at one since, and as for getting 30mpg with the petrol well it ok but thats about all, 14 years ago i had a Audi Quattro 1.8T 180bhp which gave me upto 33mpg on a run, but only 28 locally. So i don't really think 30mpg on a new subi is anything to write about.
Yes road tests do spend a lot of time on the ICE or whatever new name its now given, but thats because over recent years the systems have advanced quickly. My 2013 CX-5 is already dated and due to be changed in 2015.
Also i might mention the CRV is getting a 9 speed ZF auto in the UK which it needs to replace the pathetic 5 speed it uses at present, and the engine is 158bhp not 160, from a 1.6 diesel, torque is same as old 2.2 engine at 258 from memory.
Its not the first subi i,ve tested either also tried a 2L petrol boxer impressor years ago because i had read good things about the boxer engine noise, sorry it did nothing for me.
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Unless it's turbo'd, none of the Subarus built in the last 10 years or so will sound any good as they "upgraded" from the simple, unequal length exhaust headers (which gave the off-beat sound) to a more complex spaghetti with equal exhaust headers which are quieter, smoother and more refined.
The turbo's still use unequal length headers but the turbo back pressure muffles much of the sound - apart from the boy-racer versions of course.
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But it was over priced with the worst dash i have ever seen in any car. Way out of date.
I'm afraid that to me, it just means it was clear, easy to read, and had as few buttons as necessary. Cool, trendy and modern doesn't equate to good. I'm sure that my Saab 9-5 would have the same criticism levelled at it, but it's simple and easy to use.
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I would like to buy a Subaru and will do so when the dashboard and interior are half as good as BMWs or VWs. Until then I'll stick to my 5 series and Golf.
Hmm I treat my car as a means of transport not as a men's club.
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The power survey does cover reliability .
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Hector G
"The above discussion reminds me that it seems an awful long time since we had motoring journalists like LJK Setright who, despite training as a lawyer, appreciated engineering and was an early champion of Japanese engineering in general and Honda and Subaru in particular. "
That man is sorely missed ! Does anybody have a copy of his article stating his opinionon automatics v/s manual gearboxes ? It was written too beautifully.
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The power survey does cover reliability .
and lot s and lots of other things totally unrelated.
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The power survey does cover reliability .
and lot s and lots of other things totally unrelated.
The JD Power survey is very subjective - and dependent totally on owners' expectations vs experience.
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Xtrailman, I know the Quattro - friend had one. Bear in mind the new XT (compared with Audi) has over 30% more power(237 bhp), 10% more torque, is probably about 200 kg heavier, gets to 60 mph in over a second quicker. It is also far less aerodynamic, so nearly 40mpg on a run is pretty good. I know of someone who logged 43.8 on a 100 mile run. Fuel consumption obviously suffers in town, but I cannot help but compare my XT with my previous Freelander SD4 which I ran for over 3 years and 35,000 miles and averaged only 30.1 mpg (calculated). I once achieved 37 mpg on a tank when touring, but it frequently dropped to 24.
When a 2.0 petrol turbo auto with a proper permanent 4WD is no worse (and possibly better) than a diesel Freelander with a primitive 4WD system you have to say that is not a bad achievement.
BTW, I had a 2.5 X-Trail petrol auto a few years ago which averaged about 27 mpg. If people think the interior of the new XT is low rent, they should look at a 2005 X-Trail!
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