Right to repair - Xileno

I heard about this a while ago and thought it's a step in the right direction:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57665593

The problem I see is that even if you can still get the parts, are they at reasonable cost compared to a new appliance?

One of the things I research when I buy an appliance is how repairable and cheap is it to repair.

Right to repair - sammy1

saying and doing are very different. I do not think the design of products will change to make things easy for the DIYer. That leaves setting up parts and distribution places for spare parts which already exist in some formats. Major retails already have these covered, Currys to name one. The biggest bugbear is diagnosis of the fault and when you consider you can now plug in laptops for washing machines and the like. You then have labour charges of some £70phon say a retail product costing say £300. I honestly cannot see much change. It costs someone money even to take products away to repair and then return to customer.

I can see better savings in the repair of components in the motor industry which has got ridiculous for throwing expensive things away but how can anyone check what is going on and what is practical?

Right to repair - daveyjp

Apart from our first washing machine which was a Hoover and bought for us, we have always bought the entry level German branded white goods and all have done 10-15 years with no repairs.

I will stick to that philosophy. Buy quality, replace rarely,

Right to repair - galileo

This is yet another example of legislation which sounds good but which will not prove possible in practice.

This is what happens when politicians with little knowledge of engineering (or many other real-world issues) try to 'virtue-signal' or otherwise dream up crowd-pleasing ideas.

Aside from the problem of diagnosing exactly which part is needed for a repair, modern white goods include dozens of components, most of which are bought in by the manufacturer from an assortment of companies.

These suppliers may not continue to make or stock all these components, certainly unless it is made financially worthwhile. Suppliers go out of business or are taken over, dies, press tools and patterns wear out and once regular demand stops it is uneconomic to replace these.

I have worked in manufacturing industry, involved in purchasing/supply and inventory control, with a few years experience in supporting the spares and service function.

No company can afford to stock every spare part for 10 years, (wear and tear items perhaps), the idea is nice but needs careful thought on how to improve the current system.

Right to repair - Falkirk Bairn

Electrolux in Sweden do fixed price repairs on machinery up to 10 year old for £150 - parts and labour.

Question would I spend £150 on an item say 8 years old when I can buy new for say £300?

Right to repair - Engineer Andy

I agree that a more nuanced approach to this is necessary, as my own experience with cars shows that just 'keeping items in stock' does not mean that they are either:

1. Easily available (e.g. are kept in the HQ country, and thus delivery can take many days/weeks unless you want to pay a small fortune to have it sent by air freight asap), or;

2. Reasonably priced. OEM car parts in particular are often horrendously expensive for what they are, or, in many cases, those fixing the fault charge a fortune in hourly costs (with a min. cost) and call out fees (appliances).

It's one of reasons why (pandemic aside) the computer (PC) retail business was very good for customers, because there has been so much choice and almost all of the parts are generic and interchangeable between different manufacturers, plus, if you can diagnose the porblem yourself (not always possible), you can fix the fault/replace the broken part yourself with minimal training/expertise.

With kitchen appliances in praticular, a fault with one (often innocuous/small) part can mean the product is just not worth fixing - case in point - my 15yo Panasonic microwave oven's turntable motor likely failed recently (it stopped working once or twice a couple of years ago then started working again - not this time).

The replacement part cost £15 + about £5 postage. Not bad, but the only access point is via the base, which needs the panel to be cut out and a very stead hand in replacing bits, as things can get lost in the gaps. A secondary part might also be needed, bumping the total cost to about £25 - £30.

Still not bad, but that's if I do the work, and there's no guarantee it'll work after I change out the parts - it could be a PCB fault (though the unit works in every other respect). I checked with my local repair shop, and they wanted to charge nearly £100 for the job (parts included), with just a 1-year guarantee on the work.

I paid about £90 for the microwave oven back in 2006. Admitedly, unlike most other electronics these days (pandemic aside), getting a like-for-like replacement would cost me a lot more (I checked when the turntable stopped working 2 years ago and the costs were similar to today) - £135, but even so, the repair cost vs the age of the unit generally convinced me that buying a replacement was the best option over the long term.

I'm unsure why prices of these products has rise, where others like TVs, etc, have fallen dramatically over the same period. In the end, I bought a Kenwood product costing £85 - it has nearly all the features I wanted, aside from the 'inverter', which is a VERY handy feature.

The problem as I see it is that because many products are very complex (especially on the electronics side of things), i means they are often, but not always, hard to diagnose faults. This, in turn, means that repairers can often justify high hourly rates, though I think they have gone too high.

I also think there is no incentive - quite the opposite in fact, for product manufacturers to build-in complexity, whether through environmental laws (many of which are contradictory and/or daft and achieve little gain in that respect) or as vehicles for manufacturers to earn substantial revenue from repairs and selling spare parts, which often is far more lucrative than selling the new product.

As shown with computer printers, the product is often a loss-leader or barely earns a profit, but its consumables like ink cartridges (OEM ones deliberately short-filled these days to drop the cost of the printer) and other parts, noting that warranties for the product have barely increased in 30 years on many.

Only a few come with a longer manufacturers' warranty (you'll be lucky to get 2 years) - it's only a few retailers like John Lewis (TVs) and Richer Sounds (very cheap extended warrnaties) offer free or low cost warranty extensions.

With cars, certain parts like alloy wheels and tyres are very lucrative money-spinners, given how long they last due to their specs vs road conditions, plus it appears (IMHO) both the car and tyre manufacturers appear to have some kind of 'arrangement' that helps eachother force customers into going the big alloys/low profile tyre route.

There needs to be great thought about these issues from government, given the car 10y stipulation for parts doesn't appear to be working properly acorss the board. Like with pharmacuticals, there needs to be a far bigger 'generic' market and a big push to standardise many components. This should be something that hopefully can improve as the change to EVs comes, but I'm not holding my breath, given what's gone before and experience as regards home electronics.

Right to repair - Palcouk

With cars the drive for large wheels and low profile tyres is driven by the consumer, and their perceptions, egged on by the makers advertising. Large wheel + low profile tyres equals significant 'unrealised' cost to the consumer, and better sales to the retailers involved

Right to repair - expat

Here in Australia we have hard waste verge collection days. The council advertise a date when they will come round and pick up junk off your street verge for the entire suburb. For a few days before hand you get scavengers coming round. One man's junk is another man's treasure. We have picked up spare parts for our old washing machine from other folks junk machines. I have got printers and a scanner from the verge that worked fine with new cartridges from ebay. Our washing machine repair man drives round with a truck collecting junk washing machines and cannibalizes several to make one good one to sell on. All good recycling which saves stuff going into landfill and stops fly tipping. Why dump stuff illegally when you can do it legally if you wait for the pickup day.

Right to repair - Bolt

Why dump stuff illegally when you can do it legally if you wait for the pickup day.

I don`t think councils do that here, they charge to take anything, except batteries and small electrical items which are taken twice a month, the rest is charged for, ie, washing machine is £36....our council do a list of prices, but still easier than dumping at the tip if heavy?... problem can be time taken to collect your items which can be up to 3 weeks

Right to repair - bathtub tom

I took my old washing machine to the council tidy tip in the back of my Yaris. I'd taken the motor out, only to find it wasn't an economic repair, so that was quite a chunk of weight. I then removed the lumps of concrete. The missus could then easlily assist me in loading it in the car.

We did get a funny look when one of the staff asked if he could help us and watched as we easily lifted it out and chucked it in the relevant skip. The motor followed and the concrete went in with rubble.

Right to repair - alan1302

problem can be time taken to collect your items which can be up to 3 weeks

If you left it out here for 3 weeks someone would take it!

Right to repair - sammy1

Local people are touring my area in wagons looking for scrap metal. It has become local practice to leave things outside the house for these people to collect. One or two also go around with a megaphone shouting for scrap, a bit like the old days ala Steptoe with the Horse and Cart.

Right to repair - Bolt

Local people are touring my area in wagons looking for scrap metal. It has become local practice to leave things outside the house for these people to collect. One or two also go around with a megaphone shouting for scrap, a bit like the old days ala Steptoe with the Horse and Cart.

They used to do that in my area but now they are not as regular as they were, probably depends on the price of metals, though years ago anything with copper or brass in was put in someones garden and they stripped the items, I think some were nicked for overloading their vans and trucks which stopped them collecting for a while....

There is a right to repair going on in USA at the moment which is gathering momentum as certain companies will not allow 3rd party repairers circuit diagrams or sell parts for certain items. unless the OEM has trained them

aparently an electric car made by large company was bought by customer and was rear ended, the rear bumper is going to take till October to get so the electric car cannot be used, the maker is not interested it seems

Edited by Bolt on 09/07/2021 at 08:43