Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

I've recently completed the replacement of the rear crankshaft oil seal and gearbox oil seals - thanks for your advice in my previous post.

Although the clutch still seemed servicable, I decided to replace it anyway (including slave cylinder) whilst the gearbox was out.

Since re-fitting there is very little resistance to the clutch pedal and it's clearly not actually operating the clutch. I have bled it extensively (both with an Ezibleed and 'two man') but to me, it still feels very light and as though there is still air in the system. I did clamp off the hose as close as possible to the slave cylinder before removing it.

I previously had a 95-99 shape Fiesta 1.25 and still have the Haynes manual for this. It shows a pre-load valve on the slave cylinder, though this isn't fitted on mine. It specifies a very low torque (below the range on my wrench) for the bolts that fit the slave cylinder to the inside of the bellhousing, saying this is important for correct functioning of the pre-load valve. As I don't have a pre-load valve fitted, I did these bolts up normally and don't know if this is critical or not.

I really don't relish the thought of taking that box out again, so I'd be interested to know whether anyone thinks this is still an air in the system issue or whether any other causes would give the same feel to the pedal.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - elekie&a/c doctor
Have you got the clutch friction plate in the correct way round ?
Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

Yes.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - elekie&a/c doctor
Looks like you still have air in the system. Do you have access to a pressure bleeder?
Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

Yes, I've pressure bled it and ye olde 2 man method. I must have bled more than half a litre through it and the cylider must be tiny.

I did get some bubbles out but the new slave is plastic and has one of those half furn bleed nipples, I wasn't 100% convinced it was coming from the system rather than the connection.

Obviously, I'd rather spend as long as it takes bleeding the slave if it might do the job, rather than have to remove the gearbox again.

I thought I could try jacking up that corner of the car to try to release any remaining air.

Any other tips for removing stubborn air?

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - elekie&a/c doctor
I was thinking more of a pressure bleeder that needs connection to an air line to operate.
Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

Ah, no. I just have the Ezibleed running at 20psi of a spare tyre.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

An update on my clutch conundrum.

I had a day away from this and had another go at it today.

I bled the clutch again (still with the Eezibleed, it’s all I have). The clutch pedal still feels very light.

I started the engine and can select any gear as easily as before I started the job, with no unpleasant noises.

When I select first and begin to let the clutch pedal up, the back of the car tucks down but the car will not move forward.

When I select reverse and begin to let the clutch pedal up, the front of the car tucks down but the car does not move backwards.

I really can’t work out what’s going on and would be interested to know if this makes any sense to anyone!

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - bathtub tom
When I select first and begin to let the clutch pedal up, the back of the car tucks down but the car will not move forward.

When I select reverse and begin to let the clutch pedal up, the front of the car tucks down but the car does not move backwards.

Remove the bricks from under the wheels and release the handbrake?

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

Ha Ha! As soon as I'd posted that I thought "am I being a numpty"?

No chocks were in place and handbrake was off but it seems the brakes had siezed in the nearly 2 weeks it's been parked. I gave it a rock and they freed off.

I'm still slightly disconcerted by how super light the clutch feels but I'm off for a test drive.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

Seems to drive fine.

I realise I’ve missed out some of the story but briefly, after bleeding the slave cylinder multiple times, I still could not get the car in gear. I had not expected the last attempt to make the difference, so was wrongfooted by being able to get the car in gear but then not move it! I don’t know why such a short run was so hard to bleed but think that elekie & A/C doctor was spot on in that a proper pressure bleeder would have been the way to go, had I had access to one.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - edlithgow

Never used one on a clutch (Skywing's is cable-operated, and the Honda Accord is an automatic) but a big enema syringe is quite effective on brakes.

You can flush upwards, and you can cycle fluid in and out, both of which help dislodge stubborn bubbles. The latter also reduces fluid wastage.

Cheap too..

Edited by edlithgow on 22/11/2020 at 15:17

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind.

I've since discussed it with a neighbour who remembers reverse bleeding Marinas to remove stubborn bubbes back in the day, so that might well have been my next approach.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - edlithgow

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind.

I've since discussed it with a neighbour who remembers reverse bleeding Marinas to remove stubborn bubbes back in the day, so that might well have been my next approach.

I had a clutch (slave?) cylinder fail on a Marina, so I suppose I must have bled the replacement, but its a while ago and I can't remember.

Didn't know the syringe trick then, though so pretty sure I did not use that.

Edited by edlithgow on 24/11/2020 at 10:38

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Chrome

Hi, I use a simple one man bleeder with good results. On my car (lKia Rio mk2) the trick to final bleed the clutch is to partially depress (3-5cm movement) and lift up the pedal 10-20 times with the bleeder connected and nipple open. Might be worth trying?

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - Roland T

It's sorted now Chrome but thanks for that, I'll bear it in mind for the future.

I've done numerous brake fluid changes without issue before this with the Eezibleed.

When I was nearing my wits' end, I clamped the flexible hose to the slave to see if this would firm up the pedal and prove that the air was in the slave cylinder. The clamp did resist a certain amount of pedal pressure but then passed some fluid, followed by a gurgle. I'd inadvertently left the Eezibleed connected and under pressure during this procedure. The bleed nipple was closed, so the only way any air could have got out was up through the master cylinder and into the reservoir, which sounds a bit far fetched.

I don't know if this budged the air or not but repeatedly using the Eezibleed conventionally seemed to be achieving nothing other than wasting brake fluid, so I see the attraction of Ed's syringe method.

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - edlithgow

.

I should have pointed out that its sometimes alleged that reverse bleeding can evert master cylinder seals.

This is also claimed to be a risk to pushing brake pistons in without undoing the bleed nipple.

I can't say this never happens, but on the Skywing, flushing a badly neglected system, I used as much pressure as I was physically able, producing a markedly turbulent upwelling into the master cylinder reservoir, without any apparent damage,

Perhaps if the transfer port is blocked it is more likely to be an issue, but then you'd probably have to strip it anyway.

Edited by edlithgow on 24/11/2020 at 23:37

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - edlithgow

Having just represented the syringe thing as much better than sliced..er...salami (sliced bread is fairly naff) I've just had an instance (on a 1997 Taiwan Honda Accord) where it didn't work.

Going round the car sucking fluid out of the bleeder until it came clean, but on the rear left it stayed dirty for about 50 mls, it got very hard to pull fluid, and it was sucking a lot of air in via the threads.

I usually have PTFE tape on the bleeder threads as an anti-seize, and to reduce air leakage, but I havn't had this system dry so havn't yet had an opportunity to do that.

I tried some silicon grease (unobtanium here so used sparingly) which reduced the air leakage, but only a little. (Didn't want to use an oil base grease since I might get it into the system.).

Wasn't able to push much fluid in either.

I suspect an internally collapsed flexi brake hose. It seems plausible that positive pressure bleeding is less likely to cause this

Edited by edlithgow on 30/11/2020 at 23:49

Ford Fiesta 1.25 2000 - Clutch not operating after replacement - edlithgow

(Duplicate post)

Edited by Avant on 30/11/2020 at 13:28