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I was recently involved in a frontal impact car accident at around 30-40mph. However, my airbags didnt deploy, passenger and driver and I was wondering who I can contact to find out what went wrong and if anyone is legally responsible for this.
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Sounds very worrying indeed ! Hope everyone's OK.
I guess what you do depends on how old the car is, where you got it from, how long ago etc. etc. Your local Trading Standards Dept. and CAB (who can arrange free access to a solicitor) wouldn't be a bad place to start before you do anything else like, for example, handing over the car to the dealer to check.
If you can expand a little on the details I'm sure someone else here will be more help.
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Hi, luckily everyone was OK and the worst injury was a broken arm. I bought the car 3 weeks ago from a car supermarket. It was a V reg Renault Megane Coupe. Everyone who attended the scene was shocked that the airbags didnt come out. The entire front was mangled and they needed a crane to pick the thing up. The police and ambulance crew kept asking what happened to my airbags and it was only then it dawned on me that they hadnt deployed.
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If the airbag warning lamp had been operating as usual then I guess no-one is actually liable. Other than the lamp there is no other test the seller would be expected to make in order to check the airbags.
The airbags aren't even part of the MOT test are they.
MM
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I understand what you are saying as far as the car supermarket goes. However, assuming that there is no test to see if the things are working other than point of impact, how are Renault sure that their system is working when they release the car from the assembly belt. I would just like to know whether anyone has any legal requirement to make sure that the airbag system works and when this requirement passes from one person to another for future reference.
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Incidentally, the airbag warning lamp only lit up when the others lit up, i.e on the system check. Then they went off, which signals that the system is working fine.
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You also have to wonder if there are any air bags actually fitted if the entire history of the car is not known!
Mal.
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I have a full service history for the car. It was a company car so they were quite good with the upkeep of the records. I will go over them with a fine toothcomb later to see if there was ever a crash in which the airbags were deployed and the system reset, otherwise, the whole affair is quite worrying given the amount of advertising etc manufacturers do about their airbag protection systems.
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I will go over them with a fine toothcomb later to see if there was ever a crash in which the airbags were deployed and the system reset
I remember reading somewhere when airbags were first fitted to mainstream cars in the UK that if an accident occurred in which the airbags were triggered, it wouldn't matter about the splitting open of the dash/steering wheel centre during airbag deployment, as the impact was certain to render the car beyond economical repair. So I would be very surprised if they had been set off before and then replaced.
Also I echo the comments about speed of vehicle deformation etc, and wish a speedy recovery to all.
In my job one of the things I sometimes have to do is take people from A+E to the police vehicle compound to remove their property from what's left of their car. Not nice, and it always makes you think.
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Hmmm. Sounds very dubious doesn't it ! Trading Standards methinks and get some legal advice too. In addition to the CAB route, many solicitors' firms will give a free initial consultation and I think it would be wise to get more than one opinion and then decide on your next course of action.
We don't yet know what the cause of this failure was but if any dealer were to be selling dodgy motors it would be a good idea to stop them sooner rather than later.
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Tapi,
Was the impact head-on, offset or side-on? Also what did you impact with?
As an aside, do you think that the deployment of the airbags would have made any difference to the injuries suffered?
Airbags are only designed to deploy when they are likely to make a difference to the outcome of the accident. If I remember the training I had at Ford when the Mondeo came out they will deploy if the impact is within 15 degrees either side of head on. If this occurs they are also only going to operate when the impact is considered sufficient to allow the driver/passenger to come into contact with the steering column/dash. I seem to recall that this is the industry standard as a steering wheel bag deploying in an offset angle or side impact may exacerbate the injury, hence the later introduction of side and curtain airbags.
Sorry to hear about the accident and hope the arm mends soon.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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Sorry, just re-read the original post and saw it was frontal.
Would still be interested to know if it was offset or at an angle and the vehicle you impacted with. Also useful to know if you were both braking from 30/40 or was that the combined impact speed. Another condition for triggering airbags is that the impact, being within 15 degrees (as above) should have an impact equal or greater to that of two cars of similar mass meeting at a closing speed of anywhere between 25 and 35 mph AT IMPACT, although the actual speed varies depending on deceleration, airbag size and manufacturer settings based on crumple zone performance.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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The old Meganes like most Renaults had a very high score in Euro NCAP and Renault use this in their adverts.
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A lot of this may be down to high structural strength and progressive crumple zones. These will both contribute towards a higher than normal impact speed before you see deployment of the front airbags. In essence the car has to undergo deceleration above a pre-determined g within a defined direction for the bags to deploy. If the car crumples effectively, no airbag is needed.
It's interesting to note that the only injury of note was a broken arm (not to detract from the seriousness of the event). Had airbags failed when they were needed, I would expect upper chest and facial injuries at least.
I recall one incident we had at Ford where an early Mondeo was involved in a head-on and the bags were deployed. The driver had to be cut clear but was unhurt (much to the surprise of the paramedics and firecrew) with the exception of minor burns to the inside of her wrists from the airbag discharging. She threatened to sue for the injury until her GP pointed out that without the airbag she would have spent the rest of her life with the word "Ford" imprinted on her severely flattened forehead from impacting with the steering wheel.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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Well, the impact was head on into a fence/wall type structure. The only mitigation that the airbag didnt deploy, having read your explanation, is that I hit the corner of the fence and so the front of the car has a V shape dent in it where the crumple zone went into the fence. The police/ambulance crew estimated I was doing around 40mph when I hit the fence.
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Thepolice/ambulance crew estimated I was doing around 40mph when I hit the fence.
Had you hit a solid (non-deforming) object or another car at that speed then the airbag would have deployed. It would also have taken a whole lot of cutting gear to get you out.
From what you describe, it is likely that the fence crumpled a darn site more than the car did. Without knowing the structure of the fence I would hazard a guess that this would represent an impact similar to having hit a car or solid object at perhaps 10-15 miles an hour. All to do with transfer of energy and deceleration.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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they will deploy if the impact is within 15 degrees either side of head on. If this occurs they are also only going to operate when the impact is considered sufficient to allow the driver/passenger to come into contact with the steering column/dash
slighty O/T but what of those of us who are short? I'm slightly less than 5' and to be able to press the clutch fully being pretty close to the steering wheel is the normal driving position for me. I'm sure the car can't detect how close the driver is at the time of the impact so how do they know if the impact will caues a "duck's disease" driver to hit the wheel. I'm sorry that's slightly rambling but i can't work out how to put it more concisely. I also hope you can understand my ramblings.
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apparently the 'normal' code doesn't work here
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I\'m slightly less than 5\' and to be able to press the clutch fully being pretty close to the steering wheel is the normal driving position for me. I\'m sure the car can\'t detect how close the driver is at the time of the impact so how do they know if the impact will caues a \"duck\'s disease\" driver to hit the wheel.
In short it can't tell. It's all about averages. I hate to tell you this, but if you have an airbag I suggest you have a chat to the dealer and manufacturer to make sure that your position is within the "safe" parameters for the device.
If you are too close, the airbag will cause more injury than the steering wheel. In essence, they are set off with a concussion equivalent to a shotgun at close range (albeit with a very short, wide barrel!).
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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That really wasn't what I wanted to hear but thanks for the advice. I think I might just have a chat with that (hopefully) nice dealer or manufacturer.
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I have always thought that a car is immobilised if the airbag(s) is not working.
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Without the airbag you get the amber warning light advising of the failure. Still ok to drive, but caution is advised.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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Well, the guy who broke his arm did actually hit the dash with his head and has bumps and scrapes. I only hit my forearm on the steering wheel and its painful but thankfully nothing was broken. The point about the crumple zone is quite pertinent beause I think that had the car had a more rigid front zone, the damage done could have been far worse. As I said, I only noticed the fact about the bags when the police and ambulance crew started asking given the damage to the front of the car. Before that, the fact that everyone was not seriously injured was my main worry. Still seems fairly odd though, crumple zones apart because I hit an immovable object and the decelaration must have been rapid, for the bags not to inflate. Oh well, I guess you live and learn, although I am getting someone to inspect the car and let me know about the airbag system.
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Oh, and the corner fencepost is only slightly bent. I was amazed, but it has a scrape on it and it bent less than 10% off vertical and the rest of the fence is still intact. My car however............
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To quote from the Yaris manual - I assume it will be very similar for all airbags:
'The airbag will deploy if the severity of the impact is above the designed threshold level, comparable to an approximate 18mph collision with impacting straight in to a fixed barrier that does not move or deform'
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'However, this threshold velocity will be considerably higher if the vehicle strikes an object, such as a parked vehicle or sign pole, which can move or deform on impact. .... It is possible that in some collisions at the lower zone of the airbag sensor detection ... the airbags will not operate all together'
So it is quite possible it is a combination of the type of impact, the amount the fence deformed and the position of impact.
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Well, the guy who broke his arm did actually hit the dash with his head and has bumps and scrapes.
Just a though, but I assume your passenger was wearing a seatbelt. If not he should probably be grateful that the airbag didn't deploy.
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Playing Devil's Advocate somewhat but how do we know that there are air-bags under the covers to be deployed? Because of cost of replacement desireable item on the list of a scroat. Maybe previously stolen and only cover replaced?
Air-bags are not a legal requirement, as far as I know, so any litigation that they did not work would be difficult?
However, for the sake of others, Independent/Renault examination if bags present to ascertain why there was a non function, so that others can be checked?
DVD
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Tapi,
Sounds like the impact was close the threshold for deployment. I think it would be worth asking Renault to comment under the circumstances.
Hope your passenger gets better soon.
No Dosh - He who dies with the most toys wins.
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