VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - Billystuff

I'm changing my 06 Subaru Legacy Estate 2.0 petrol. I want a nearly new car & am looking at VW alltrack, Audi Avant Quattro, Audi Allroad. My budget is about £24000 inc trading in the Legacy. I travel to snowy Eastern France a couple of times each winter & my Legacy never lets me down in the snow. I dont think my budget will run to an Allroad so is an Avant Quattro as good as the VW in bad snow.My Legacy has low ratio lever & I run it on normal summer tyres but I'm worried the Avant won't be as good. Any advice please? BTW don't want another Subaru as I don't like the look of the new ones.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - oldtoffee

I've moved from Subaru's full time awd to a part time 4wd like the Alltrack (mine is Hyundai) and my experience is that the Subaru has just got the edge on outright traction. With the Subaru there is no transfer or braking of power to the wheels that you can just detect sometimes on snow especially when pulling away. Same on greasy roundabouts if you give it too much beans my Hyundai 's wheels "chirp" as they scrabble for grip and the power quickly transfers to the rear and then all is good.

Full time awd uses more fuel than part time and the Alltrack (latest version of ther VAG 4wd system) has hill descent control which gives extra control (and confidence) on steep downhills. Last February my Hyundai worked noticeably better in the snow with Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme tyres than my Outback (no low ratio) did with Nokian WRG2 tyres in the two previous winters so any perceived advantage I had of awd was in my view negated by better tyres. I had a Legacy prior to the Outback and that worked ok in light to moderate snow on its 18" 45 profile summer tyres but now having used premium winter tyres I'll always run two sets of tyres.

Edited by oldtoffee on 07/11/2012 at 13:54

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - Ed V

I understood that 4x4 is something rarely used in snowy parts of the world, but winter tyres are. Certainly most of the 4 wheel drive cars in Alpine resorts in winter are English registered, not Swiss, French or Austrian.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - unthrottled

It's always amused me that people think that they 'need' 4X4 because they live on a country lane!

Like you say, most people who have to deal with snow and ice on a regular basis are less fearful of it than those who don't.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - Happy Blue!

My only experience of serious snow was in Switzerland earlier this year. Many 2wd with snow tyres driving remarkably quickly for my liking! Also lots of Subarus.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - Mike H

I understood that 4x4 is something rarely used in snowy parts of the world, but winter tyres are. Certainly most of the 4 wheel drive cars in Alpine resorts in winter are English registered, not Swiss, French or Austrian.

There are a lot of 4 wheel drives here in Austria! To be fair, a fair proportion of them are Suzuki Jimnys owned by farmers, but there are certainly a good number of other 4x4s. Ones that I've noticed in particular are Octavias, and recently Dacia Dusters.On the other side of the coin, quite a few RWDs mainly Mercs & BMWs. But in general you're right, most people seem to opt for FWD. I manage perfectly well in my FWD Saab 9-5 auto. And of course winter tyres are mandatory.

It has to be said as well, that most of the roads in, and leading to, ski resorts are cleared pretty quickly. If they're not cleared, the resort loses revenue because people can't get there. Simples!

Edited by Mike H on 08/11/2012 at 13:13

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - madf

Unless you live in the country, 4x4 is a waste of time in winter snow in the UK. Usually there will be a driver blocking the road in front and totally incapable of movement.... if it's bad.

As for ice, walking time.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - unthrottled

Usually there will be a driver blocking the road in front and totally incapable of movement.

This mirrors my experience of driving in snow. I've never got stuck myself, but I've had to wait in long queues behind stuck cars.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - TeeCee

I understood that 4x4 is something rarely used in snowy parts of the world, but winter tyres are. Certainly most of the 4 wheel drive cars in Alpine resorts in winter are English registered, not Swiss, French or Austrian.

All well and good, until you hit that nicely compacted icy hill at a ski resort car park. At the time, I was driving a Skoda Octavia 4x4, which had no problems at all. The 2WD merchants were all stranded in the car park at the bottom.

I lived in CZ for a few years. While it is true that most people used 2WD vehicles with snow chains, having driven both over there I can state with confidence that there is no substitute for having all four wheels driven when there's a load of snow and ice on the floor.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - unthrottled

A sack of grit and a shovel or even just some old sacks in the boot would probably have got them going again. Not ideal, but better than being stranded. Reversing up a hill works wonders in a fwd car. On a 1:10 gradient, this gives you about 65-70% of the weight of the car on the drive axle. Again, not ideal, but getting stranded in a fwd car is normally due to the shortcomings of the operator rather than the drivetrain.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - madf

A sack of grit and a shovel or even just some old sacks in the boot would probably have got them going again. Not ideal, but better than being stranded. Reversing up a hill works wonders in a fwd car. On a 1:10 gradient, this gives you about 65-70% of the weight of the car on the drive axle. Again, not ideal, but getting stranded in a fwd car is normally due to the shortcomings of the operator rather than the drivetrain.

I ran in the Dovedale Dash last weekend.. tinyurl.com/cuxbjpc

Parking for competitors - who are all mad - is on a grassy field up a unmade farmer's road. It was not very muddy nor very wet but it was amazing the number of drivers who are incapable of controlling throttle and clutch well enough to preent wheelspin...

Edited by madf on 08/11/2012 at 14:43

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - unthrottled

but it was amazing the number of drivers who are incapable of controlling throttle and clutch well enough to preent wheelspin...

...or trying to get started with the steering on full lock

...or being unable to rock a car out of a muddy hole.

There's no doubt that 4X4 is more capable than 2wd in these situations, but it's a PITA to lug around a 4X4 drivetrain for the 99% of the time when it isn't helpful. The easiest nut to change is the one behind the wheel.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - SteveLee

The year before last I towed a four wheel drive Audi saloon (amonst many other cars) out of our company car park in my two wheel drive Citroën C5 - the difference - I had appropriate (all season) tyres. The Alltrack has't got a brilliant reliability record, nor have any of the VAG cars on the same platform. You don't need a 4x4 - you want one - that's different.

VW alltrack - Audi quattro -Audi Alltrack - pinkpanther_75

How about one of these (with appropriate winter tyres) tinyurl.com/d9lwlkp

I ran a 2010 Octavia II 1.8 TSi 4x4 estate with the same Haldex 4x4 system and found it a very capable all round car. Roomy, reasonably fast, economical and reliable. Bit like a Subaru realy!


Edited by Seant on 09/11/2012 at 20:26