Any - Speed cameras | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

Sun 27 May 2012 17:08

Any - Speed cameras - Billsboy

It had to happen. After 53 yrs driving and over 1 million miles, I have picked up my first speeding ticket. I believe that the fact that I have gone this time and distance "Points free" demonstrates that I am not a serial offender and I accept the outcome philosophhically.

Having been a CPC holder for major transport organisations before my recent retirement and involved in driver training with the FTA etc., I will not take the course if offered but accept my punishment like a man. The offence took place on the A127 at Laindon on Friday 18th May and my reason for posting is to check whether any other Backroomers have suffered the same fate at this location.

The thing is, I was certainly on that road on that date but to have reached there at the time of the offence according to the Police, I would have to have averaged 103mph. I estimate their time is one hour out. It is 130 miles from my home which I left at 75 minutes prior to the police recorded time.

There may or may not be a case to get the charge dismissed on a technicality but I do not want to go to the expense of hiring a solicitor on what may prove to be a futile exercise.

If however, there are others caught on the same day with the same error, who are desparate to avoid points, they may wish to check the alleged time and try the technicality route.

I've joined the club at last and good luck to all those who are still "points free"

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Thu 31 May 2012 03:30

Any - Speed cameras - 1litregolfeater

You can't beat them, cameras are everywhere.

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Thu 31 May 2012 07:14

Any - Speed cameras - Armitage Shanks {p}

I am finding it a little hard to folow your line of reasoning. It sounds like an "Alleged" offence in that you say you could not have been there based on the time/distance invoved but you aren't going to fight it.You have a 53 year clean driving record and won't go on a Speed awareness course to keep it clean? There is nothing manly about rolling over and not fighting possible injustice and, if you are retired, you have plenty of time to do so.

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Thu 31 May 2012 13:47

Any - Speed cameras - Happy Blue!

Agreed. If you are right about the timings, then you should see if you have an documentary or contemporaneous evidence to justify your thoughts. That way, you could use a brief to destroy the camera evidence, get your costs paid and help a load of other people as well.

However good they say the camera systems are, they are not that good. And the back office systems are poor. I recently fought and won a case. Although not part of the case, we identified an alleged copy of a document sent to me as nothing other that a totally different document, with different layout and information.

So if you think you were not there at the time indicated (even if you were there a hour later) then you have thrown doubt on the whole process. Make them pay for their errors, incompetence and all round greed.

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Thu 31 May 2012 18:15

Any - Speed cameras - Duncan112

Post your query on Pepipoo http://www.pepipoo.com/ and an expert will get back to you, although at first glance if the NIP is fatally flawed delay returning the S172 request until 27 days have elapsed to prevent reissue of the NIP

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Fri 1 Jun 2012 19:07

Any - Speed cameras - jamie745

Speed camera's are fantastic arent they. They do nothing to solve real problems on the road but serve to extract £60 from good drivers with previously spotless records.

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Fri 1 Jun 2012 23:05

Any - Speed cameras - Billsboy

Many thanks for your comments and I now have to confess that the time was correct. I can only blame my wife for this. She had hung last year's calendar up over this years, to update birthdays etc and when checking the date of the speed check it appeared to be a Friday but it was actually the Sunday on our return journey.

It does not alter my attitude however, although considering Armitage Shanks comments, I feel I just may change my mind if a course is offered but I would feel very awkward for the following reasons.

My rationale is difficult to explain but after a long career in transport management, my first feeling is one of embarrassment. As a CPC holder I have been involved in ensuring drivers uphold the standards of the companies I have have worked for and have been involved in training courses not only for the likes of daily checks and safe loads but being aware of, and obeying road traffic law. I should not have missed the sign no argument, and you can imagine the ribbing I would take if I were still employed..

My second feeling was also embarrassment and resentment at haviing fallen for the scam of the "Cash cow" cameras. I have nothing against cameras placed in dangerous areas and accident black spots but I am not so keen on those placed in areas where there is no reason for the limit other than generating cash. The law is the law and I obviously broke it in missing the relevant signs and I would have to keep my feelings to myself on the course just as I have explained this to staff who have been caught in similar circumstances.

The staff who run these courses must be aware of the reasons for some of the cameras but would never be able to admit it and I just don't look forward to the hypocrisy.

I will keep you posted.

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Sat 2 Jun 2012 00:04

Any - Speed cameras - barney100

I was stopped by the police in the days before cameras, I was given verbal chastisement by the officers. I felt no resentment as I was in the wrong and the talking to was enough to make me a much more careful observer of speed limits. If today I was caught by a camera and fined, got points and all I would feel the whole thing is not about road safety but a revenue raising scam. The old way was far more effective.

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Sat 2 Jun 2012 00:55

Any - Speed cameras - Smileyman

The way these cameras work these days it is almost like state sponsored terrorism .... one is in fear of a minor transgression for what might happen to them .. state organised theft .... I've heard Essex is a nasty part of the country for this state crime ... and in case anyone think's my comments are wrong, I am in favour of cameras, enforcement and safety, but the three are not directly linked, and speed in itself is not the problem, rather the easy scapegoat to be wheeled out to justify blanket catch all cash cow solutions.

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Sat 2 Jun 2012 10:33

Any - Speed cameras - bonzo dog

I am in favour of cameras, enforcement and safety, but the three are not directly linked, and speed in itself is not the problem

Like most people you are telling only part of the truth.

You say "speed in itself is not the problem". Yes, speed is not THE problem but it is A problem.

Bad driving is THE problem, of which speed is one aspect of this. It's also the aspect that is easiest to police.

If we had cameras that would catch other aspects of bad driving we would have these too, but we don't.

Should we not enforce speeding regulations because we can't enforce driving too close or reckless overtaking as easily?

We can all question the positioning of cameras, & I would agree that they seem to be positioned in areas where they are more likely to catch people who are speeding rather than in a position of increased danger should speeding take place,

But people seem to think that they exist to deter speeding by their presence, this is not their objective. The only thing speed cameras do is catch people who are breaking the law, they exist to deter people from speeding per se, not to deter them from speeding only in certain places

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Sun 3 Jun 2012 20:47

Any - Speed cameras - Collos25

I noticed on arecent visit that the MI has sprouted many speed cameras built into the new gantrys I thought the UK had put a stop to these useless pieces of equipment, then again out of the mouths of governments normally come lies.

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Sun 3 Jun 2012 20:57

Any - Speed cameras - jamie745

The Government has removed all central Government funding for speed cameras. That hasn't stopped councils and local Government/Police forces etc from directing funds to keep them on.

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Sun 3 Jun 2012 21:49

Any - Speed cameras - focussed

I will believe in speed cameras when I see one installed outside every school, hospital and care home. Until that is achieved I will continue to regard them as a cynical attempt to rook the road user under the guise of road safety.

Motto-"If speed kills, drive a 2cv and live forever"

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Sun 3 Jun 2012 23:31

Any - Speed cameras - jamie745

They don't put them outside schools because the cars parked on both sides of the road coupled with speed bumps mean its impossible to speed down the road anyway, so the speed camera would never raise any money.

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Mon 4 Jun 2012 09:33

Any - Speed cameras - Collos25

They would if they were set at 10mph.

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Tue 5 Jun 2012 00:09

Any - Speed cameras - Leif

I am in favour of cameras, enforcement and safety, but the three are not directly linked, and speed in itself is not the problem

Bad driving is THE problem, of which speed is one aspect of this. It's also the aspect that is easiest to police.
If we had cameras that would catch other aspects of bad driving we would have these too, but we don't.

Should we not enforce speeding regulations because we can't enforce driving too close or reckless overtaking as easily?

We can all question the positioning of cameras, & I would agree that they seem to be positioned in areas where they are more likely to catch people who are speeding rather than in a position of increased danger should speeding take place,

I can only comment in relation to local speed cameras. We have no fixed ones, but we do have mobile cameras. Oddly enough these are probably more effective in terms of keeping people to the speed limit but that is an aside. The mobile cameras were out in force in the wet weather, and I applaud that. Anyone speeding in those conditions is a dangerous nutter. But they also have the cameras out in perfect weather, where the danger from exceeding the speed limit (50mph) is questionable. So in wet weather, cameras do trap dangerous drivers. In perfect conditions they are income generators. That is the problem with cameras. They enfornce compliance to a dumb limit that takes no account of time of day, weather conditions and traffic. Thus it is not really a test of safe driving, but compliance to a regulation. If they only had mobile cameras in wet/misty/foggy/icy conditions, then I would pat them on the back. Though to be honest you need lower limits when it is icy. Ah, there's the issue, the speed limit is actually not a measure of what is a safe speed. In icy conditions it is a dangerous speed. In perfect weather it it sometimes too low.

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