Drought (hose ban) - Ben 10

Just prior to the announcement of the drought order across the country, many TV news teams were shown highlighting the situation by filming river beds that had dried up or were at very low capacity.Since the hose ban, and the never ending deluges we've had since, I'd like them to return to those rivers and compare then and now. Bet they won't.

And what a load of tosh about "wasting" water. Anything I use that goes down my plug hole goes back to the treatment works for them to pipe back to me. This water doesn't just disappear. If it did, I would support the action and be more frugal. It doesn't matter how you use water, it finds its way back to the customer. You drink, you pass, you flush. You wash you drain. You water the garden or wash the car, it drains or evapourates. Eventually ALL that you use comes back in some form. I just wish the government and the water companies wouldn't keep trying to pull the wool over our eyes. In the end it is a "green" tool and a pre curser for compulsory water meters and hence higher prices. It is the water company shareholders that will benefit all round all with the myth that we are saving water.

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

Since the hose ban, and the never ending deluges we've had since, I'd like them to return to those rivers and compare then and now.

It takes a lot of sustained rain to build up the water table. A few heavy April showers make no difference at all.

Anything I use that goes down my plug hole goes back to the treatment works for them to pipe back to me. This water doesn't just disappear. If it did, I would support the action and be more frugal.

Ultimately, this is true-water isn't used up like fuel! But don't forget virtually everything that emerges from your hose is lost to evaporation and so hosepipes are the 'open' part of the system. That and leaks of course!

Drought (hose ban) - jamie745

It takes a lot of sustained rain to build up the water table. A few heavy April showers make no difference at all.

Ever since they declared this so called 'drought' its done nothing but rain. Its been raining for pretty much 30 straight hours here - and I have a hosepipe ban! - and to be honest unthrottled I'm getting pretty sick of the bigwigs and knobjockeys at water companies trying to tell us that all this constant rain in the last month makes 'absolutely no difference' as they keep saying.

It could rain non stop for 7 years and they'd still come out and say it doesnt make any difference. Everytime I've been outside recently I've got drenched so I'm not sure who on earth they're trying to kid with this fake madeup pile of nonsense about a 'drought.'

Drought (hose ban) - Bobbin Threadbare

I am smugly enjoying living in the North West of England and always having to carry a brolly around with me.

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

Maybe we should do a Salmond and declare indepence from the UK and live off the proceeds of 'our' water.

Drought (hose ban) - Bobbin Threadbare

I'm for it. You up for forming the first cabinet?

Drought (hose ban) - concrete

The whole question of water availability is based around available storage. The country as a whole still receives plenty of rainfall to sustain our needs. The lack of storage and a reluctance to invest in leak preventing maintenance have resulted in many water companies, mainly from the Midlands down, being woefully short at times. In the North East we used to have a lot of heavy industry, steel making plants, foundries, chemical process works etc. All of these facilities had their own on site power stations with huge cooling towers. These towers have 56"(in old money) water mains to supply them. hence in the 50's and 60's we developed Kielder as one of largest man made water storage reservoirs in Europe. We managed well then and now these industries have declined we have an excess capacity. So it can be done if you have the will. I would build a pipeline to the dry South and sell some of our excess to them, that would get some useful revenue for our hard hit part of the UK. It is in the hands of your very own water companies to get on and provide adequate storage, so complain to anyone who will listen. Try to get some action to prevent future shortages. You cannot rely on a few rain showers to solve the problem. An estimate I read was you need about 600mm of rainfall over a period of a few weeks to begin to notice a difference. Sounds like summer is on it's way!!!! Cheers Concrete

Drought (hose ban) - Ben 10
Drought (hose ban) - Ben 10

People suggest a national water grid, but get shot down about how much it will cost. What we need to do is act now and start building it with water company and government money. Sooner rather than later. The Victorians built the canals not worrying about the cost, so why can't we get on with achieving the same with a water grid.

Drought (hose ban) - Bobbin Threadbare

Well there has been some suggestion about swapping HS2 for H2O; possibly better to spend the money on a pipeline rather than a rail line. I am not sure about that as all the estimates seem to be phenomenal. It is a shame that we have lost our engineering spirit in this country, to an extent. I've been to places where they still use Roman aqueducts reliably!

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

H20 would be much more useful than HS2, but policy makers get more excited about 200mph trains than they do about potable water. People don't learn; high speed travel on road, rail, water or air is seldom commercially successful.

Concorde-commercial failure

Hovercraft-commercial failure

Bullet trains-most require perpetual state subsidy- ergo commercial failure.

Supercars? Well they survive due to their exclusivity, but not on their ability to get to places quickly!

Japan is unusual in that its geography compels the bulk of the country's population to live in a narrow strip on the eastern side of ther main island-which is ideal for a railway line. The UK isn't like that.

Regenerating the North East? Pah! it'll just mean people can leave Hartlepool even quicker than they could before!

Drought (hose ban) - Ben 10

Maybe we should employ the Japanese to design and build the grid. Going by the rebuilding after their earthquake, it could be done rather quick.

IMO this is a necessity, and should have the few billion muted, thrown at it. Now that we are back in recession, an infrastructure project like this might shorten the dole queues. Money well spent.

Drought (hose ban) - Alanovich

Why would we need to build pipelines for potable water to create a national grid? Why can we not simply slosh water down canals from the north to the south, and prepare it for drinking at this end?

Or is that too easy?

Edited by Alanovich on 25/04/2012 at 16:25

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

Why can we not simply slosh water down canals from the north to the south?

1.) Canals leak like sieves

2.) They aren't mainy canals in wet areas like cumbria and Wales

Drought (hose ban) - Alanovich

So what input currently fills these leaky canals? I seldom see a dry one.

Also, if there aren't many actually in Cumbria and Wales, then build a short pipe to the nearest canals there are and then the water can flow south/east. Far easier and cheaper than installing pipes all the way to that London. It seems water flows from Cumbria to Manchester easily enough, plenty of canals there last time I looked.

Something needs doing to move water around the country, and I can't think of a cheaper and easier method.

Edited by Alanovich on 25/04/2012 at 17:14

Drought (hose ban) - Duncan112

In 1942 J F Pownall designed a "Grand Contour Canal" to link the North and South of England by a single level ship canal that could also be used for transporting water - unfortunately there is little of value on the net about it but I found this today - don't know why I missed it in the past!!

THe only downside I can see is that it would enable the South East to waste the Norths water then we can all suffer from hosepipe bans (As I write this it's pouring down in Leeds and all the reservoirs along the M62 to Manchester on my daily commute are full)

IMHO it would be a far better investment than HS2 (or as I prefer to think of it the bad smell H2S!!)

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

So what input currently fills these leaky canals? I seldom see a dry one.

They take water from rivers. To drain a canal for maintainance you simply shut off the water supply-they soon go dry. Whenever I've been narrowboating, Britis waterways are very keen that you do not waste water when negotiating locks.

Drought (hose ban) - jamie745

The different sides to unthrottled keep on revealing themselves.

A narrowboating, dog owning Renault driver.

Drought (hose ban) - Avant

Welcome back Alanovich - nice to 'see' you again.

I agree - our canals are a vastly under-used resource. I fera it wiuld take more imagination than our politicians are capable of to re-invest in this infrastructure. Such shame when you think of all the work -mostly without modern mechanical aids - that went into constructing them.

Aren't there something like 52 locks on the Kennet and Avon canal? (Admittedly that probably wouldn't be one of the canals ideal for transporting water!)

Drought (hose ban) - Alanovich

Thanks, Avant.

Drought (hose ban) - Alanovich

It strikes me that we could use canals to transport non-urgent, non-perishable goods also, helping to cut down on the amount of HGVs on the roads. I wonder if anyone's looked on to the viability of setting up a transport company to do such a thing?

Edited by Alanovich on 26/04/2012 at 10:50

Drought (hose ban) - concrete

Tha canal system does not lend itself readily to water transfer. The better solution would be pipelines to suitable rivers near extraction points. Feed water in and then remove the same amount for treatment. I cannot see this costing anywhere near the HS2 budget. It would certainly provide some work for construction and if Government funded, then rented to water companies for use, then the money would be recovered. I have been involved in pipeline projects in many countries, including the UK and it is not difficult. Also the environmental impact is minimal, with natural habitats recovering very quickly after the backfilling operation. A national grid is possible, if the will is there.

I am not from, nor do I reside in Hartlepool, but I visit occasionally and cannot find anything particularly wrong with it. Perhaps unthrottled would expand on his remarks, or is it the North east in general that deserves his approbation!!

Drought (hose ban) - Ben 10

Tha canal system does not lend itself readily to water transfer.

Thames water before the ban, announced they were going to transport water from the Severn via canal system.

Drought (hose ban) - concrete

Tha canal system does not lend itself readily to water transfer.

Thames water before the ban, announced they were going to transport water from the Severn via canal system.

The operative word in the sentence is 'readily'. The river system is generally natural courses created by water flow across a low permeable substrate. i.e rock and is therefore quite efficient at retaining water. The canal system is engineered and as such the course is the direction you wish to go in and the substrate is usually quite porous and without a natural supply to replace losses the canal system would drain itself dry. Therefore it is not an efficient way to transfer water because of the high rate of loss. Also a river will have a good capacity to accept extra water before reaching a flood point, a canal has very limited capacity to accept extra water so has limitations in the amount of water it will hold for transfer. However, if that is the only method at Thames Waters' disposal it is Hobsons' Choice.

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

I am not from, nor do I reside in Hartlepool, but I visit occasionally and cannot find anything particularly wrong with it

It's an arbitrary provincial town, the likes of which the government hope will be 'regenerated' by improved rail links. Same applies to Middlesboro, Sunderland etc.

It's the planners of HS2 who think there is something 'wrong' with the north east, not me!

Drought (hose ban) - concrete

I am not from, nor do I reside in Hartlepool, but I visit occasionally and cannot find anything particularly wrong with it

It's an arbitrary provincial town, the likes of which the government hope will be 'regenerated' by improved rail links. Same applies to Middlesboro, Sunderland etc.

It's the planners of HS2 who think there is something 'wrong' with the north east, not me!

Sorry unthrottled, I was a bit over sensitive when I read your remarks. I live in the North East, as you no doubt gathered, and I am constantly dismayed at the way the region is reported in the national press. It does have one good side effect in that it keeps away the Southerners so they do not push our property prices up any further. This industrial heartland has been devastated in the past 20 years and if we can make some hard cash from selling our plentiful supply of water I think we should do it. It would provide a much needed filip to the region. I have worked on construction and engineering projects in UK, Europe, Middle East and Africa and they are always packed with engineers from the North East because we used to turn out talented people by the regiment. They now need to ply their trade elsewhere. When this pool of ageing talent is exhausted there will be nothing to replace it, the North East produces a fraction of the talent it used to. It is not so much the talent as the experience that is being lost. A crying shame for a region that built ships, mined coal, produced steel, started the railways, built Sydney Harbour Bridge, Golden Gate Bridge any many more besides. It is unreasonable to expect this natural pool of labour to turn from industry and construction into giving each other haircuts and making each other cups of coffee.

Anyone would think I was standing for election. Please excuse the obvious frustration and the potted history, but I feel better now. I am going to lie down in a darkened room for an hour!! Best wishes. Concrete

Drought (hose ban) - unthrottled

I am constantly dismayed at the way the region is reported in the national press.

Do you think it is portrayed badly in the media? I suppose "the north-East" is often used by reporters as a byword for post-industrial decline-but the same thing could be said about Manchester, Lancashire, Liverpool, or Glasgow.

There's no escaping the fact that some towns are in a terrible economic state and there's no obvious solution. Towns in decline always seem to adopt a sense of mawkish defensiveness that is very off-putting to potential newcomers. It's manifested in parachial small town rivalries (Wigan Vs Bolton/St Helens, Liverpool Vs Manchester, Gateshead vs Newcastle etc etc.). Boooring.

Drought (hose ban) - jamie745

Do you think it is portrayed badly in the media?

I'd apply that to most of the north and its not just the media. Labour MP Diana Abbot on Question Time last night seemed to suggest living in Stoke was below people.