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I have to stop you there. I think you're confusing the various 2.0TDI engines.
The first 2.0TDI was the PD engine. Early ones of those had issues with the heads going porus, which basically writes the engine off. I think there was problems with waterpumps failing, which flung the timing belt. Also, the oil pump tended to fail in N-S applications (Audi A4, Passat B5.5, Seat Exeo).
As you said, injectors are on recall for the 2.0TDI PD in 170hp form, and this affects certain engines in all models.
Particulate filters are a problem on all VAG 2.0TDI PD engines, as it's a heath-robinson addon that never really worked properly, with one exception that I'll come to.
None of the above applies to the 2.0TDI CR, except the DPF issues, though they seem to be much improved compared to the PD.
The Mitsubishi Lancer uses a Mitsubishi re-engineered PD lump (BKW I think), it's really quite different to the normal PD lump. Intake, exhaust/turbo manifolds are totally different, different management, and close coupled DPF which doesn't give too much trouble, Mitsubishi gearbox (which has the starter mounted to the gearbox, not the engine!).
I had a 2008 Lancer with the engine, and it was really very good. Mine was the 140hp with a Ralliart factory remap to 170hp. It went really well - far better than the rest of the car could cope with - torque steer was bad, and the tiny brakes fitted couldn't cope in the slightest. Mitsubishi need their heads looked at for putting 276mm discs on the front of a 1500kg car... Good engine, bad car.
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Ahh, thanks for the info
I am aware of the potential problems with VAG's 2.0PD - but I was interested in the latter CR model with Piezo injectors.
I was under the impression that the lancer used the CR diesel; I must be wrong then. The prospect of Overall Jap reliability with a German diesel was indeed tempting, darn it!
I wouldnt have any DPF problems i'd imagine as my daily commute to work is 12 miles each way with at least one long motorway journey a month (minimum 100 miles each way)
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I was under the impression that the lancer used the CR diesel; I must be wrong then. The prospect of Overall Jap reliability with a German diesel was indeed tempting, darn it!
I thought it was the CR when I bought mine, but it's definitely a PD.
The Lancer isn't a BAD car, really. It's just not good. I had a saloon GS3, so 18" rims and "sport suspension". It seems Mitsubishi think "sport suspension" means "break your spine and bounce from one bump to the other". The rear spoiler fills with water (or ice), the rear visibility is woeful due to the spoiler, the brakes are shockingly bad. The dash was plastic-fantastic, like something Renault made in the 80s. The headlights are pants, too, and use some whoo-flug-dung Japanese fitment and only run at 50W. May as well have candles on the front. Seats were a big step down from the "sport seats" in the Vauxhalls I had (Astra SXI, Astra Design, Vectra SRI).
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I am on my second Lancer Diesel.The first one was a 2010 GS2 and was an ex management car purchased with 7000 miles. A further 13000 miles in 6 months at an average of 50mpg (tankful to tankful)was very pleasureable. The ride and handling was enhanced considersably by the fitment of Pirelli P7 cinturatos in place of the factory Dunlop on the front axls.Following the cars second service the power delivery seemed much smoother and the computer mpg readout considerably increased. I didn't keep the car long enough to measure if the real world economy was enhanced as we were tempted to change for a 5 month old ex demo Juro as Mitsubishi are no longer importing the Lancer into the UK. The newer car is definately quieter then the previous model and part of the deal was fitting it with Pirellis all round so handles and rides much better than on the factory Japanese Dunlops. 24000 miles a year means that I don't anticipate any DPF or injector issues and the car wil be sold before the waranty expires.I know the dash plastic isn't to everyones taste but certainly neither car has suffered from any trim creaks or rattles so far.The full leather interior in the Juro is nice and the Kenwood navigation/ sound/ DVD player system with reversing camera a nice extra.
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You will find it difficult to find a car thats been properly serviced every 10k an oil change if your lucky every 25k if its a ex company car asmost will be.
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You will find it difficult to find a car thats been properly serviced every 10k an oil change if your lucky every 25k if its a ex company car asmost will be.
Thats a bit harsh, VaG have 2 service regimes fixed and longlife. Fixed being 10K or one year. Most cars are longlife I think, and assuming the car has been serviced at dealers you can guarantee they have used the special 506/507 type oils and int he case of a company vehicle mileage will have been done in a relatively short space of time so no problems. I do mostly motorway driving and on the variable longlife regime I tend to get about 18500 miles between services which takes me about 11 months. I dont think this is abuse as the oils used are highly robust.
I would agree though if then car has gone say 2 years between services.
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Most fleet cars are serviced at the likes of Kwik Fit and at varying times we have a colleague with a Passat with 37k last time Iooked and its never been serviced.There are goog ones out there but its big gamble picking them especially Passats as I reckon 90% go to leasing/fleet companies and if they go out without a service package they will never be serviced.
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Assuming fleet cars are regularly serviced is a myth.
I had tow company cars, two different companies. Both Renaults. The first one, a Clio was service every 5-6k, which was usually every 6 weeks. The second, a Laguna, was serviced twice in the 18 months I had it. It managed 35k between oil changes, and it was on the same 5k interval as the Clio.
Both cars were remarkably reliable, only having their first real failure at well over 100k (gearbox on both cars).
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Most fleet cars are serviced at the likes of Kwik Fit and at varying times we have a colleague with a Passat with 37k last time Iooked and its never been serviced.There are goog ones out there but its big gamble picking them especially Passats as I reckon 90% go to leasing/fleet companies and if they go out without a service package they will never be serviced.
Utter tosh, every company car (probably 15 over the years) I've every had was serviced exactly according to manufacturer's requirements by franchised agents. Now I run my own company we do the same. Why would I risk a £15,000 asset for lack of spending £300? Why would I risk tens of thousands of revenue by not keeping one of the tools for the job on the road?
It's the same reason I can't contenance buying from dealers who can't keep their cars on the road by supplying first time fixes....
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Most 'company' cars I have seen at auction or on autotrader seem to be serviced on a regular basis.
Only a handful, in my experience, are not.
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Most company cars are sold by the lease companies only the trash over milieage units that end up at auction and do not confuse a stamp in the service book with an actual service.Just look at the cars worn out discs ,worn tyres,cam needs doing,just coming up to a service,all these things will need doing by the new owner -lease companies do not spend a penny unless they are forced to.
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Most fleet cars are serviced at the likes of Kwik Fit and at varying times we have a colleague with a Passat with 37k last time Iooked and its never been serviced.There are goog ones out there but its big gamble picking them especially Passats as I reckon 90% go to leasing/fleet companies and if they go out without a service package they will never be serviced.
Utter tosh, every company car (probably 15 over the years) I've every had was serviced exactly according to manufacturer's requirements by franchised agents. Now I run my own company we do the same. Why would I risk a £15,000 asset for lack of spending £300? Why would I risk tens of thousands of revenue by not keeping one of the tools for the job on the road?
I quite agree, having had company cars for 15+ years myself until I saw the light and opted out instead, and out of all of the marques I had, vauxhall, Volvo and then BMW every single car was serviced by main dealers at all times and every fault repaired by same. Admittedly they did force us to use Kwik Fit for tyres but that was it. Strangely enough my local VW/Audi specialist is worse value than the local Audi dealers, how does that work ??
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I am on my second Lancer Diesel.The first one was a 2010 GS2 and was an ex management car purchased with 7000 miles. A further 13000 miles in 6 months at an average of 50mpg (tankful to tankful)was very pleasureable. The ride and handling was enhanced considersably by the fitment of Pirelli P7 cinturatos in place of the factory Dunlop on the front axls.Following the cars second service the power delivery seemed much smoother and the computer mpg readout considerably increased. I didn't keep the car long enough to measure if the real world economy was enhanced as we were tempted to change for a 5 month old ex demo Juro as Mitsubishi are no longer importing the Lancer into the UK. The newer car is definately quieter then the previous model and part of the deal was fitting it with Pirellis all round so handles and rides much better than on the factory Japanese Dunlops. 24000 miles a year means that I don't anticipate any DPF or injector issues and the car wil be sold before the waranty expires.I know the dash plastic isn't to everyones taste but certainly neither car has suffered from any trim creaks or rattles so far.The full leather interior in the Juro is nice and the Kenwood navigation/ sound/ DVD player system with reversing camera a nice extra.
Am I wrong in thinking that the Juro came with the Citroen 2.2 engine as all the auto Outlanders still have them ?
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Am I wrong in thinking that the Juro came with the Citroen 2.2 engine as all the auto Outlanders still have them ?
Yes, you are. VAG 2.0 TDI PD, engine code BKC.
The Lancer was supposed to be getting Mitsubishi's own 1.8DiD, the same as the ASX, but they instead decided to stop importing them to the UK.
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hi, I run a 1.8 petrol GS3 57 plate 2008 lancer.
Had it about 8 months and 10,000 miles. bought for 7k with 23k on the clock from a dealer, so secondhand you get a lot for your money, cruise control, auto climate control, heated and folding door mirrors etc. and only grp 8 insurance.
not had any problems so far.
I personally think the headlights are superb, better than the mk3 mondeo i had in the past, and better than the other halfs xenon equiped V40.
ISSUES,,,,yes the suspension is hard...but soft compaired to the sister in laws A3 sportline....and yes the dash is very black plastic....but hey its a good price, and the plastics compair with the subaru impreza i've had in the past.
I have popped out the standard mp3 cd player and used my old sony radio as it has a rear mounted usb socket so plug in my 32gb memory stick and hey presto 8100 tracks and all controlled via the steering wheel buttons....cruise control is also steering wheel mounted.
if you have family the hatch back is worth a look....but for me i didn't like the look of the rear end, so went for the saloon with its big spoiler (ironing board/shelf)
paul.
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I too, much prefer the look of the saloon - the hatchback just looks odd (to me)
I think saloons generally look better though to be honest. My last two cars have been saloons as I prefer the look over their hatchback siblings
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Am I wrong in thinking that the Juro came with the Citroen 2.2 engine as all the auto Outlanders still have them ?
Yes, you are. VAG 2.0 TDI PD, engine code BKC.
The Lancer was supposed to be getting Mitsubishi's own 1.8DiD, the same as the ASX, but they instead decided to stop importing them to the UK.
Sorry but the Juro only came with the 2.2 Citroen engine... it was a limited edition, perhaps you are refering to the Warrior? which came with the VAG engine.
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Just to amplify: the "silent recall" -- and how cynical VAG has been about all this, acting more like a disreputable back-street boyo than a major auto manufacturer -- does indeed affect rather more than cars with the 170PS engine. My 2007 Passat was a 140PS turbo diesel and I had believed it to be OK. Certainly, VAG never wrote to me about it. However, a month or so ago I decided to pop into my local main dealer's and ask them to check. Surprise, surprise: 'your vehicle is on the recall list".
In other words, at any time my Passat could have stopped in any road and traffic environment because of an engine fault of which VAG was fully aware but had done nothing to advise me of.
I was at the dealer's on a Wednesday morning. The injectors were changed on the Friday morning. No 'recall' letter has ever arrived from VAG -- the dealer advised me they were being sent out alphabetically -- and maybe I won't actually receive one now.
What with this and so much else about VAG nowadays -- I can't speak for Audi, but VW parts are ludicrously over-priced -- I've decided that if only everything in life was as expensive as a Volkswagen, or, alternatively, if only everything in life was as unreliable a manufacturer as Volkswagen, then it'd back to a bicycle for me.
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I'm not excusing bad behaviour on VAG's part. But, the number of complaints regarding VAG cars must be considered in the context of how many cars they sell.
Nearly one in five (19.3%) new car registrations hail from VAG. The next nearest rival is Ford, way down at 13.8%.
In contrast, 'reliable' car manufacturers (Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Honda etc) have comparitively small market shares of 4.95, 3.72, 3.2, 2.6% respectively.
This is why VAG problems feature so much more frequently on internet forums than Jap/Korean cars.
Even Mazda, previously as a fairly bulletproof manufacturer had a torrid time with its 2.0D engine.
Customers expect too much car for too little money and the only way to make that economically viable is to cut corners (poor long term durability of components) and add hifdden costs (overpriced parts and servicing).
They're all at it-there's no such thing as a free lunch.
You got your free injectors. Quit moaning.
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The Lancer uses the 2.0 DI-D Diesel
according to the LANC5710 12/10 Brochure in my desk draw the specs are:-
1968cc
bore/stroke 81/95.5
compression ratio 18.5
max output bhp at rpm 138/4000
torque Nm/ibs.ft 310/228 at 1750rpm
co2 163
meets EU-4
GROSS WEIGHT 1970KG
KERB WEIGHT 1465KG
PAUL....
Edited by Paul G1pdc on 08/03/2012 at 13:15
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Instead of starting another thread, Just though i'd continue this one.
Just looking to see if anyone else has an opinion on the lancer with the 2.0PD diesel?
Looking to test drive one next week.
It's either that, or the Civic 2.2d
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Instead of starting another thread, Just though i'd continue this one.
Just looking to see if anyone else has an opinion on the lancer with the 2.0PD diesel?
Looking to test drive one next week.
It's either that, or the Civic 2.2d
Mitsubishi have ended their arrangement to use VAG diesels and use PSA diesels instead.
Draw your own conclusion.
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PSA are desperate, losing money hand over fist and car sales have collapsed so they have spare capacity and need the money so offered a great price. And can deliver as and when wanted.
VAG can sell every diesel they produce, have waiting lists and don't need to sell engines.
(Mostly factual except the "great price" bit which is a guess)
Edited by madf on 28/03/2013 at 12:36
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I cant find many people that have had issues with the 2.0PD so i'm assuming it has something to do with VW asking for more than PSA for the engines
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PSA engines don't have the reputation for many failures as Vw group, maybe this is why....
Ford, jaguar, LR Citroen, Peugeot all use these engines and I have never heard of problems with them. Apart from the 1.6d needs to have clean Oil
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I have a Seat Exeo 2.0 TDI 143. Had from new, company car, 38 months old. Full main dealer service history, 94,000 miles. The engine is quiet and very refined and uses no oil whatsoever between services. Previous to this I had a VW Passat 2.0 TDI from new,again a company car. Used lots of oil. Noisy, Valve failure on M1 at 70mph at 80,000 miles. It did also have a full main dealer service history.
Edited by Bycro on 24/04/2013 at 20:54
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What about BMW s debacle with the chocolate timing chains....
We've a fleet of cars an just had one 320d expire. We will never have another BMW. On the other hand several audis 2.0 tdi Pds have thrown in the towel and had to be recovered. Injectors, oil pump drive, sheared etc...
Plenty of renaults, Citroens and Fords. No bother whatsoever, also Avensises seem to be bulletproof.
seems that Non Premium is the new Premium
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Yes, but what would your work colleagues and friends think if you turned up with a reliable well built car that had a non German badge? There would be widespread panic over the triumph of common sense.
It's for that reason I generally tend to stick to Japanese cars
My local garage owner has a simple philosophy when it comes to cars;
"If it aint Jap, it's cr*p"
Edited by balleballe on 25/04/2013 at 10:10
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Instead of starting another thread, Just though i'd continue this one.
Just looking to see if anyone else has an opinion on the lancer with the 2.0PD diesel?
Looking to test drive one next week.
It's either that, or the Civic 2.2d
Mitsubishi have ended their arrangement to use VAG diesels and use PSA diesels instead.
Draw your own conclusion.
Money ! PSA are cheap and as most car companies are now run by accountants 50,000 units at £1000 ea is better than 50,000 units at £1,150 ea.
As a family we have had 3 VaG PD engined cars and in my case I do around 25K PA and we have not had a single engine related problem.
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as most car companies are now run by accountants
Penny pinching isn't the fault of accountants but of customers always expecting a discount, but not wanting to compromise on spec. As much as buyers talk about appreciating quality, most of them will base their decision on what they can see. That means that what isn't seen gets scrimped on.
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