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Thats all very nice unthrottled but its not a giant magnet is it?
Think about it!
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a metre away from parked cars - when somebody opens their door on you , as has happened to me a few times , and don't start, reflective clothes , good lights, helmets and paying attention, plus the best tyres
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Reflective clothes? i'm not a navvy on a building site.
Helmet? I'm not a deep-seam coal miner.
Yes, I cycle in urban areas-use the right hand lane on roundabouts etc. It's not that hard. Grow a pair.
If safety is your number one priority, there's lots of solid metal cages with 4 wheels...
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If safety is your number one priority, there's lots of solid metal cages with 4 wheels...
Fair point, it is odd when motorcyclists choose to sit unrestrained on an engine with two wheels attached to it, fully exposed to all elements and then shift the blame to everybody else when they end up under a lorry or in a hedge upside down on fire. Cycling and motorcycling is naturally a more risky/dangerous activity than using a car or going on a bus or something, just because you were stupid enough to get on the lethal contraption in the first place dont blame everybody else when you come unstuck. Nobody made you get on it.
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Indeed!
I quite like cycling, but the Notting Hill Martyrs make me reach for the car keys. They whine about other road users taking unnecessary risks then ride a fixie through Piccadilly Circus!
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There really is a sense of 'ive decided to use an unsafe mode of transport so the entire world has to pander to me' about it. Ive got no problem with road users of the two wheeled variety i just want it made clear they decided to get on the deathtrap. With 32 million vehicles on Britain's roads, even with all the campaigns and best will in the world it is impossible for all of them to be faultless (such as in the case mentioned earlier of car users opening doors, most will see the cyclist but it only takes one who doesnt look to cause a problem) and i think we all accept that. The difference of course is when you're on a bicycle or motorbike, that one error from somebody else is likely to have a bigger impact on you than if you were in a car and thats just the basic brutal fact which you have to accept if you choose to use such a mode of transport.
Im a pragmatic person - pragmatism being cover for the fact i'd fall off a bike in hilarious fashion very quickly - and i use vehicles of a four wheeled variety because if someone crashes into me in town in my car im likely to be fine, if someone crashes into a cyclist the odds are rather less favourable. Like everything else, it all comes down to maths.
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It's not the maths, it's the assumptions. For example, that KSI per distance travelled is a valid indicator of risk.
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How did an observation from a cyclist that cell phones slow traffic down, end up as a hate cyclists rant? Rhetorical question really and I am about to tell you the answer.
The bottom line is car/van/truck/bus drivers hate cyclists almost universally because cyclists should not share roads with the above vehicles - it is that simple. To mix modes of transport with such varying degrees of ability defies logic. As an example it is unheard of in aviation to mix jet aircraft with hang gliders at the same airport - the reason is obvious.
However it is deemed acceptable for this gross mis-match to occur on the roads. Go figure. In addition the cyclist has recently taken the moral high ground for a variety of reasons (that's another story) and now sees it completely right and proper that all others should work around them, and in addition feel free not to have to buy into the road system in any way.
My reply to the predictable backlash from outraged cyclists is this. If you want to share the road get your bike/tricycle/rickshaw/segue/whatever registered and display a number plate. Have it annually inspected for roadworthiness. Pay towards the road upkeep (rego). Get insurance. Take a test and have a licence. Oh yeh I forgot one other, get off the moral high ground and act like a grown up and accept the responsibility that you are very vulnerable wobbling around in traffic, and at least wear a helmet and use all appropriate safety equipment.
If you want in on the roads lets do it properly.
I recently went to Oxford, which is famous for its park-and-ride service. The double decker was crammed with patient and polite car drivers that were held to ransom going in and out of town and every 50 yards some numpty with a baby in a cot or basonnette on wheels attached to a bike/rickshaw/trike/skateboard/whatever was holding the bus up by sticking their arm out without checking behind and just moving into traffic. Is it any wonder car/bus/van/truck drivers loathe cyclists.
And that is why drivers hate cyclists. If you are an outraged cyclist please feel free to climb onto that moral high ground and abuse me. Also when you are lying in hospital remember the car/truck/van/bus is mightier than the treddly. Be afraid.
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Wrong Sirion - note that as I've said, I've been driving for 25 years and I drive daily. I own 4 cars and classified myself till recently as a petrolhead. It's only when fuel will reach £2.00 a litre plus that many more people will give up their motors. When it takes 20 -25 mins to cover 4-5 miles on a pushbike and there are no parking issues at both ends, then it makes no sense to drive if you are able bodied. I only drive when ferrying my child and or wife / heavy shopping. And for £32 a year I have 3rd party insurance .. covering me on any pushbike.
The reason most car drivers dislike cyclists is that they feel frustrated at being stuck while a cyclist can continue moving while keeping fit for very little outlay.
On Sunday evening in the frost I did a 20 mile round trip, which took me down the A1 by a***nal's ground. Suddenly, cue a huge jam, cars reversing, horns , anger. I dismounted , walked the bike on the pavemet, all traffic was directed into a side street, and then I walked past the incident : a moderate shunt , fire brigade as usual got their tools out and sliced a car in half. It didn't look necessary to stop all traffic passing but am no expert. The whole artery was shut to traffic - am sure all car drivers were seething. So yes, you don't see this while trapped in the steel box. You need to get out more.
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Why did the Big Brother moderator see the need to blank out the name of the football ground I gave as a geographical reference point ?- Who are they gunning for here ?
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Just going back to original point of this thread (just for a change).
I would venture to suggest that the present law on mobile phones is causing an unexpected consequence. How many times do you see people weaving around while they text, holding their phones down low so they can't be seen from outside the car? Probably far more dangerous than actually talking.on a phone while looking at the road ...
Mmmm
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The same reason AOL blocked discussion of a town in Lincolnshire fifteen years ago: stupid filtering software.
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Original thread idea - yes, people on mobiles aren't paying attention. I've said this before; it makes me feel sick to see some dippy woman in a giant 4x4 with a horde of kids in it, yakking away on her mobile, half a hand on the wheel, blocking a junction. One slip and she clonks someone else, and she ought to think of the kids!!
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"Why did the Big Brother moderator see the need to blank out the name of the football ground I gave as a geographical reference point ?- Who are they gunning for here ?"
Not the big brother moderator - I'm not that sort. It's the zealous swear-filter which works automatically and can't be avoided. Indeed when it censors the name of the football club managed by Mr Wenger, it makes matters worse (see above). Sorry!
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Dear motorprop,
Congratulations on having insurance for your cycle. My point is, the requirements I outlined are to be manadatory for all, and not voluntary. For cyclists to have a stake in what happens on the road they should speak from a level playing field and not from the sidelines, or from the moral high ground as most do including yourself.
You should also not speak for other motorists as to why they are annoyed with cyclists, it is very presumptious and in my case incorrect.
As for the rest of your diatribe I have no idea what the points are that you are trying to make apart from proclaiming to be a born-again cyclist.
Have a nice day
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What is annoying is if you dare to make quite a reasonable bicycle related point on HJ, such as pointing out its naturally more dangerous than driving a car (and i included motorcycling in the same point) it immediately gets labelled an 'anti cyclist rant.' Is even mentioning cyclists in any capacity now such a taboo subject that regardless of the point you're trying to make its dismissed as a rant? Im convinced the politically correct brigade dont read the post they just see the word bicycle, label it a rant, make a dismissive post and then move on.
Pathetic.
Edited by jamie745 on 20/12/2011 at 17:05
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I cycle, until it gets chilly enough to get achy hands! I just assume that drivers cannot see me at all, and act accordingly. I've no problems with hopping off and pushing the bike to avoid a bunch of horrible traffic.
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The reason most car drivers dislike cyclists is that they feel frustrated at being stuck while a cyclist can continue moving while keeping fit for very little outlay.
Sorry have to respectfully disagree here. Most motorists dont like cyclists because a huge number of cyclists take risks and blatantly disobey the rules of the road with impunity. But come the day they come to greif it is always someone elses fault, and they get to do this all for free with no road TAX as a side issue.
I could give cyclists my blessing were this not the case.
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Sorry have to respectfully disagree here. Most motorists dont like cyclists because a huge number of cyclists take risks and blatantly disobey the rules of the road with impunity. But come the day they come to greif it is always someone elses fault, and they get to do this all for free with no road TAX as a side issue.
I could give cyclists my blessing were this not the case.
There's no such thing as 'road tax'. Hypothecation of the tax disc revenues ceased before WW2. We all pay for the roads through general taxation.
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Sorry have to respectfully disagree here. Most motorists dont like cyclists because a huge number of cyclists take risks and blatantly disobey the rules of the road with impunity. But come the day they come to greif it is always someone elses fault, and they get to do this all for free with no road TAX as a side issue.
I could give cyclists my blessing were this not the case.
There's no such thing as 'road tax'. Hypothecation of the tax disc revenues ceased before WW2. We all pay for the roads through general taxation.
Cyclists pay exactly the same VED (vehicle excise duty - AKA road tax) as any other low emission vehicle. There's a Volvo, diesel estate that's zero rated.
Edited by bathtub tom on 22/12/2011 at 19:36
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I'm sorry Sirion but I don't get your point. Motor vehicles are subject to registration, testing and driver licensing because they're potentially lethal. Nothing 'bad' about that but something with a mass over a tonne and capable of 70mph++ inevtably has that characteristic.
To test cyclists, impose registration and mandate insurance would require proof that there's a problem now. There isn't. In the last decade a handful of people have died as a result of being 'run down' by a cyclist. Cause of death almost always fractured skull becuase they fell on their head - just the same as if they'd been skittled over by a careless jogger.
How much loss is caused in a year by uninsured cyclists? Most have insurance anyway even if they don't know it - included in household insurance.
And as the tax disc is (a) not hypothecated to road spend and (b) emisions related it has no relevance to cycling.
The playing field is already level; regulation is proportionate to risk/damage.
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Drivers don't hate cyclists, Sirion, but I can see that you, as an individual, have an irrational dislike. Consider the most frequent cause of delays to drivers. Other drivers, in line, due to congestion. Do you get out of your car and berate other drivers in the line for holding you up? And what pray is this about? " Also when you are lying in hospital remember the car/truck/van/bus is mightier than the treddly. Be afraid." A coded threat? Armchair warrior.
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Edit - duplicate post
Edited by Bromptonaut on 21/12/2011 at 13:26
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No, I don't get punctures. Slick tyres, 60ish psi. No problems. Ride just to the right of drain covers-no further is necessary-why impede traffic to make a point?
Just right of the drain covers is a bit close to the kerb. 'Keeping out of the way of the cars' is all well and good but a fair number take it as licence to ignore you and pass close/fast. If anything goes wring & you're only a gulley's width out there's little scope to move further left, particularly if thre are railings on the pavement.
Better to take a good Primary (see Cyclecraft) and make sure you're seen and heeded.
Not about making a point; its demonstrably safer.
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If anything goes wring & you're only a gulley's width out there's little scope to move further left,
It's six of one and half a dozen of another.
If you're well away from the kerb and a car overtakes you-it will pass more closely than if you were nearer the kerb.
Also, if a car is car is 'stuck' behind you for a period of time, then the drive is more likely to make an unwise overtaking manoeuvre since you'll be providing him with fewer opportunities.
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If you're well away from the kerb and a car overtakes you-it will pass more closely than if you were nearer the kerb.
Also, if a car is car is 'stuck' behind you for a period of time, then the drive is more likely to make an unwise overtaking manoeuvre since you'll be providing him with fewer opportunities.
You may need to be far enough out to preclude overtakes altogether. Do that every day just past Euston at the north end of Gordon St. Keeping left invites a close pass in a pinch point or even worse a 'left hook' by vehicles turning into Endsleigh Gardens.
Same for a short length of Remnant St where there's just no space but taxis bound for the Inns try and squeeze through.
Frustration and provocation of unwise overtakes acheived by keeping speed up and pulling in at first safe opportunity.
This is though Central London and traffic/cycle speed differential is small.
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