Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Hi, I am going to Germany later this month and am searching for Winter Tyres that meet the German regulations. I have been offered a budget tyre called the 'Fullway Snowtrak' but can't find any authoritative reviews of it anywhere. This website: www.fullwayfullrun.com/ seems to indicate that the tyres may not be legal in Germany. Anyone found any credible reviews? I am unsure as to what to do.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - gordonbennet

Never heard of them, and from the website you link to even if they are a proper winter compound tyre the maker couldn't manage to put the winter tyre stamp in the mould the right way round, we can only assume the website is right and not someone wityh an axe to grind.

No doubt made in the far east where the factory workers won't have a clue whats written on the side any more than i would if it writ in Chinese, so such a thing is understandable but beggars quality control questions, but i wouldn't be taking the risk with them.

How much cheaper are they than a set of something known?

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Thanks for comment. Well not that much less - I was told about 49GBP a tyre (ex VAT and fitting). I have just found this link globaltirealliance.com/detail.asp?f=168&c******=25 to ?a manufacturers site? doesn't seem to help much.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - gordonbennet

Pattern looks good and different to many of the budgets who almost copy known brands, plenty of small grippy sipes there as winter tyres do have, trouble is until you try you won't know how soft that compound is in sub zero temps, and with no reviews who knows what plus temerature wet grip will be like?

The price you quote doesn't mean a lot as we don't know the size or speed rating involved, i notice from the link that only one size has a V speed rating available, this as you know isn't necessarily a problem though.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Oh, sorry, size is 185/65 15 88T. Yea, I thought it looked good pattern etc for a M+S tyre. Just weird that even the people who have it for sale have no details about it. Think I'm going to refuse it and play safe by buying a tyre with the correct markings on it, like the BF Goodrich g Force winters or even a Dunlop SP4D.

Thanks. Would really like to know more about the Fullway tyre just for interest.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Here's a potential supplier:

www.tyreandgo.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&...1

There's no reviews I can see and all the tyres have the same blurb. At least they're more expensive than I was quoted ;-)

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - grumpyoldeyore

I've no knowledge of these tyres, and given the lack of info I personally would avoid them.

Just for info, here is the German Embassy notification from last year:

www.london.diplo.de/Vertretung/london/en/04/Transp...l

I was also sent this translation of the ADAC site from a German colleague of a friend of mine :

The "winter tires" Regulation
On 4 December 2010 which entered into force Regulation, a concretization of the
existing legal position since 2006. An explicit obligation to winter tires now
applies to those who drive at "black ice, snow, ice, slush, ice or hoarfrost on
the road" on the road is - authentic way for foreign-registered motor vehicles.

Conclusion
In general, winter tires are not required with the new law!
Only one who drives on "ice, slush ... .." with summer tires, risk a fine - this
is the current legal uncertainty lifted. Anyone for whom riding on "ice, slush
..." can be reliably avoided, can continue to keep the summer season tires! And
of course those people can switch to public transport where appropriate - this
is especially important in traditionally wintery areas and for owners of second
cars or old cars.

Winter and all-season tires
Tires M + S identification meet the requirements of the winter tire regulation.
The ADAC recommends tires with snow and snowflake symbol (see logo). Also,
all-season tires with this label meet the requirement!

Go safe,

G.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Thanks grumpyoldeyore. That's really helpful translation of the ADAC regs. It's this ambiguity that bothers me. The AA says one thing, the RAC slightly different, the IAM seems to be very clear. My supplier had the ADAC German translated too - their interpreter didn't quite phrase it the same way . . . but near enough.

So being safe rather than sorry seems to be the trick and go for Alpine symbol winter tyres. Another site (didn't keep the link, pity) said that the whole reason for the alpine snowflake symbol was as a kind of quality 'kitemark' so people knew the tyre was a proper winter one (apparently, almost evry tyre in America is M+S - whether summer or winter specification!). So given your ADAC translation, these tyres would be OK for use in Germany even though the rubber is unsuitable in cold weather . . . doh!

It's a real mess, that's for sure. Wonder whether Honest John himself can take this up and get more clarity? And there's more clarifications of German regulations in their legal pipeline - wait and see I suppose. Just don't have an accident in the meantime ;-)

Thanks, C-K

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Have just looked at the German Embassy tyre pictures - they have muddied the water by including 'decorative' pictures of snowflakes on the wall of the tyre and indicating that they make it legal - which it doesn't! (this photo makes it clearer www.fullwayfullrun.com/images/fullwaysnowtrak.jpg) See what I mean - a mess.

A tyre manufacturer can sell c*ap and we have no comeback. Hurrah for the Alpine snowflake - at least that sets some kind of standard.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - Roly93

My advice is dont touch them..

We had some Fullway tyres on my wifes car and couldn't get rid of vibration even after numerous attempts at balancing., Had to ditch them in the end.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - gordonbennet

Had to ditch them in the end.

So thats why they call them ditchfinders..:-)

I can understand the OP trying to find a cheap tyre for such a short need, might it be a solution to invest in a set of good quality correctly winter marked all season tyres eg Vredestein Quatrac (many more equally good makes and models now available) and get all year round use from them.

They should be fully legal in Germany but obviously check, and from the likes of Camskill will be a reasonable price for such a sensible tyre....i can hear mutterings from the back of the room along the lines of ''wish my tyres were that size'', should know i'm one of the mutterers.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Well! There's a result. The German Embassy in London (link above) has changed the tyre pictures on it's site to the 'correct' ones (the spurious, misleading decorative snowflake symbols have gone). Vorsprungdurtechnik eh?

Try getting the Brit embassy to respond in just a few hours . .. maybe Cameron was wrong after all ;-))

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - Ethan Edwards

Another great example of EU harmonisation...not!.

We' all supposed to have the same rules...er no we don't. So whats the point of the EU then?

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - gordonbennet

So whats the point of the EU then?

To give unelected and unaccountable commissares ever increasing power and lucrative jobs with gold plated pensions, though if they have an official Dacha too then they are keeping quiet about them, maybe the accounts are not being signed off till they can hide the costs.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Uh ohhh - an EU feeding frenzy - Brussels coma is sure to follow . . .

Can we get back to the tyres please? ;-)

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - dieseldogg

I would have thought that after the Snow last winter and the resultant predicted demand for winter tyres being underwhelmed by the mild autumn,( but i'm only guessing) that one should have a good pick of reputable brand winter tyres from an assortment of suppliers.

Me, I'd stick to a reasonably known brand.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - Hamsafar

M&S symbol is a USA standard which simply means 25% of the contact patch is air, and the sipes must be all over, from outer edges to centre. It gives no performance guarantee

The Apline snowflake icon is also from the USA AFAIK and the tyres must pass two performance tests, so this carries some weight.

Because these are American standards, they probably have no legal meaning here and can be used here without concern by disreputable tyre makers for their bedevilment.

Edited by Hamsafar on 12/12/2011 at 15:11

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Oh, right, I see - thanks for the update . . .

Bedevilment, bewilderment - benefits of a free market I suppose - buyer beware as ever!

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - grumpyoldeyore

> The German Embassy in London (link above) has changed the tyre pictures on it's site

Interesting! There was I thinking that they were correct.

Incidently I wound up with a set of Coopers which performed well when I went to Prague to collect a friend who was moving back to the UK at the end of January 2011. (|He provided the translation).

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Thanks grumpyold . . . that's why this is all so surreal - even the people you'd thnk new what they were talking about seem to be as confusefd as the rest of us.

Just had this reply from an Honest John advisor - which (unless it's mis-typed) is wrong too:

"Reply From: letters@honestjohn.co.uk: If has a snowflake or a mountain symbol on the sidewall it qualifies. Some 'all weather' tyres qualify. Some don't. All cold weather winter tyres qualify."

I think they mean 'snowflake in a mountain symbol'

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Agree shouldn't have touched them with a bargepole, but didn't realise what they'd put on till after I paid - doh! I had said I wanted tyres for winter driving in Germany and thought that was good enough - plonker!

I'm going to reject the tyres under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as the supplier has no data sheet available to prove that the spec / construction / performance of the tyres is suitable for winter driving in Germany, let alone that they are actually Winter Tyres - ie, to me they are 'not as described'.

Probably will not get a refund as a result (or do you think they should refund), but at least I'll be able to buy some tyres with known winter driving capabilities.

Thanks to everyone who has helped out - much appreciated.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Well, here's a turn up for the book.

Have rung the Nurnberg Traffic Police (Bavaria) and they say that a M+S (mud and snow) tyre is good enough to meet the current regulations! But what if it's summer-grade rubber in the tyre, it will be useless in winter . . . don't understand that.

So what about ADAC's recommendation that the Mountain and Snowflake symbol should be on the tyre - just belt and braces?

Don't think I have leg to stand on now - though the mirror-image symbol could mean it's a counterfeit Fullway Snow Trak tyre. What do you think?

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - Collos25

I had the M&S symbol on some low profile summer tyres fitted to my Mercedes CLC,the Bavarian police I would hazzard guess that they misunderstood you true winter tyres have M&S on the side but also have a snow flake and mountain regardless whether they are all season or winter tyres its what the Germans understand and what theylook for.The ADAC info is correct the snow flake and the mountain are the first things that the authorities look for at the roadside checks which are very common in Germany the police will only check in the event of an accident or if you are stuck and are holding up other road users both are scenarios you could be heavily fined .Disregarding any laws or regulations to drive without winter tyres in Germany could be classed as suicidal with far worse winter conditions than you would experience in the UK especially in the south and east regions.

The laws governing winter tyres also applies to HGV vehicles but not their trailers.

Winter tyres for Germany - Fullway Snowtrak? - CaptainKephart

Thanks Collos 25.

Yea, strange isn't it to get so much conflicting advice. I agree with you and what you say is what I had understood . . .