What does diesel do to tarmac? - Chris M

A3(M) was closed yesterday afternoon/evening due to a broken down lorry and fuel spillage and at midnight the workman were out resurfacing the road. So, what does diesel do to a road surface requiring it to be relaid? Does it dissolve it? Is it absorbed into the surface with the risk of it floating to the surface when it rains?

What does diesel do to tarmac? - bikerider

It makes it b y treacherous if you on a motor bike that's what it does.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - 1litregolfeater

I drove on spilt diesel once, it was like driving on ice only worse, as there was no warning, and no indication of where the spill ended.

On a bike I would have been off, possibly injured or worse.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - ianhad2

Diesel realy should be banned, see link;

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/motoring/comment/ljk-setright-why-theres-no-such-thing-as-a-modern-diesel-556045.html

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

That helps prove my point that Buses should be banned from our cities.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - sb10

I know several driveways that have broken up due to diesel spilt on to them, its worse than petrol

Buses should use petrol engines instead,but are london buses going electric soon? I remember in the 70`s the public was being warned of diesel fumes being dangerous though its the particles that kill,but as usual nobody listened

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

I remember in the 70`s the public was being warned of diesel fumes being dangerous though its the particles that kill,but as usual nobody listened

True but now they come out and say a 1.6litre petrol Fiesta will kill the world and needs to be taxed to hell to make up for its damage everybody buys into it.

Councils still refer to Buses as 'Clean, Green and Sustainable' and people believe it.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Bobbin Threadbare

Basically, asphalt and tarmac are lots of stones held in a gluey suspension, and the petrol and diesel act as solvents and dissolve the gluey bit, so it cracks up. Diesel is worse than petrol because petrol evaporates faster.

If you've got a tarmac drive you can scrub it clean using biological washing powder in some hot water to remove the diesel (non-ionic surfactants etc).

What does diesel do to tarmac? - sandy56

I dont know why we dont use buses that run on LPG.

A lot cleaner than both petrol and diesel. They are used a lot in big cities inEurope and make a lot of sense, a lot cheaper than electric buses...

What does diesel do to tarmac? - dieseldogg

tsk tsk!,

If? it was Tarmac, diesel would not affect it,

now bitumnous macadam on the other hand!

i.e. Tar-mac was made with coal tar, a byproduct of the gas industry.

And to my knowledge not affected by petroleum products.

Unlike bitumenous macadam, & the clue lies in the name folks.

That is all.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - andyfr

I have heard that road plannings (old asphalt) spread on a drive, lightly sprayed with diesel and then rolled with a vibrating roller makes a very hard surface, but I don't know how true it is.

Edited by andyfr on 01/11/2011 at 09:49

What does diesel do to tarmac? - aaj

LPG would be great for busses/taxis in cities. Cleaner air and cleaner, safer roads. Maybe if the shale gas fracking goes ahead then we could get cheap gas and then CNG busses/taxis?

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Ethan Edwards

Some of us are already using clean LPG....go ahead make my day and make it cheaper still.

Dunno what Derv does to tarmac apart from making it slippy as heck. BUT I do know what Gunk Engine De-greaser does to it.

Young chap degreasing his car on his parents newly tarmac'ed driveway. Oh was I popular.

You end up with a hole and a handful of black gravel in it.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - drivermeider

LPG would be great for busses/taxis in cities. Cleaner air and cleaner, safer roads. Maybe if the shale gas fracking goes ahead then we could get cheap gas and then CNG busses/taxis?

Yeah but unfortunately it just shifts the problem elsewhere. I'd rather have fumes on the streets than gas in my water: www.newint.org/features/2011/05/01/fracking-the-wo.../

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Ethan Edwards

Plenty of debunking about that film. You've heard the one side .....

One of many sites.

http://www.energyindepth.org/2010/06/debunking-gasland/

In any event in the UK we get our drinking water from reservoirs not too many from artesian wells.

PRO's

It's there.

It's ours.

It's easy to get to.

It's going to raise squillions.

We're broke.

It'll massively help the economy by cutting imports of LNG.

Cons.

It may upset a few people up North.

Is this such a hard decision?

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

It does annoy me when all 'transport planning' from cities and councils revolves around how to remove the car from the city/town and lay on more buses to make it 'greener' despite every piece of scientific evidence proving that idea has no merit. Unfortunately too much of the general public have also been brainwashed into this thinking and believe the long term aim must be to remove cars from cities to make it less polluted - but then turn a blind eye to the stoneage diesel bus running 16 hours a day without stopping.

A private motorist visiting the city to go to shops or whatever could drive a small petrol car a few miles into the town, park it and drive out later, barely any emissions caused at all as a result of their journey. Big diesel bus - which im surprised you dont throw coal in - runs all day, every day, throwing out particulates and killing squirrels and nobody cares. Its the private motorist who gets penalised instead.

Im very surprised we dont use hybrids like the Toyota Prius as city taxi's - although it seems more common place in the US to do so - as in theory they make the perfect city cab. Im also surprised we dont convert buses to LPG then we can remove their diesel rebate of 43p a litre and get them to pay full price for their fuel for a change - just like we have to.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Bromptonaut

It does annoy me when all 'transport planning' from cities and councils revolves around how to remove the car from the city/town and lay on more buses to make it 'greener' despite every piece of scientific evidence proving that idea has no merit. Unfortunately too much of the general public have also been brainwashed into this thinking and believe the long term aim must be to remove cars from cities to make it less polluted - but then turn a blind eye to the stoneage diesel bus running 16 hours a day without stopping.

Where exactly is 'every piece' of scientific evidence' mentioned above to be found?

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Bobbin Threadbare

Big diesel spill from a tanker on the M6 near Preston this aft. They're resurfacing the road because of it.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

Where exactly is 'every piece' of scientific evidence' mentioned above to be found?

I cant be bothered to get into arguments like these anymore unless somebody wants to pay me as a lobbyist so all i'll say is any basic scientist with even half a brain cell will confirm that bus travel is not clean, green or efficient.

I will also say - as a general point - that the day we brought politics into science was the day when we damaged and discredited science.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Bromptonaut

I cant be bothered to get into arguments like these anymore unless somebody wants to pay me as a lobbyist so all i'll say is any basic scientist with even half a brain cell will confirm that bus travel is not clean, green or efficient.

Bus travel could be cleaner, greener etc. Hydrogen fuel cells and hybrids have both been trialled in London but not sure the fuel gain pays off the cost in purchase or the end of life cost of bateries etc.

But your original assertion was that cars were greener than buses. Not so in cities where buses are frequent, chepa and therefore full.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

But the bus still runs whether theres people on them or not which is hardly green is it? Its not like your car still goes into town without you. Ive never seen a full bus in my life but i do see plenty of nearly empty ones all lined up at the bus stop in the evening with the engines running as the drivers have a chat. Very green.

We can ignore co2 as thats not a pollutant its the nox gases from stoneage diesel buses which pollute our cities dangerously. In terms of real pollution the small engined modern petrol car is the cleanest way of travelling with an engine. For a very unscientific experiment get on your bicycle behind a bus at traffic lights then behind a car and see which is the least pleasant place to be. I know which one i'd choose.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

Well isnt this well timed.

CARS OUTPERFORM BUSES IN EMISSIONS RANKINGS

Employers seeking to cut their carbon dioxide emissions could be better off encouraging staff to drive rather than take the bus, according to Government emissions data.

Buses outside London emit 221g of carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2e) per passenger kilometre – more than a small petrol car (201g) and a small (172g) or medium (215g) diesel car. The car figures are per vehicle mile, so the per passenger mile figure would be lower if more than one person was in the car.

Per passenger km emissions for London buses are much lower, at 102g. This isn't explained but appears to be because of higher average ridership figures for buses in London.

The motorised modes with the lowest per passenger km emissions are coaches (36g) and national rail services (65g).

The emissions data has been compiled by the departments for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and Energy and Climate Change. It is intended for use by employers who want to calculate their greenhouse gas emissions.

The emissions calculations cover direct emissions and also indirect emissions such as refining, distribution, storage and retail, and electricity generation.

The data comes from a variety of sources including: DfT, consultant AEA, Transport for London, National Express.

Obtained from TransportXtra.com

So outside of London then where most buses run empty for most of the day it is greener to travel by car - again, the car doesnt travel into town without you where as the bus still runs empty.

When we're getting to a point when even Ken Livingstone is criticising high Westminster parking charges you know something big is unravelling.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Bromptonaut

What does diesel do to tarmac? - Bromptonaut

Well isnt this well timed.

CARS OUTPERFORM BUSES IN EMISSIONS RANKINGS

Employers seeking to cut their carbon dioxide emissions could be better off encouraging staff to drive rather than take the bus, according to Government emissions data. [My italics -SB}

Obtained from TransportXtra.com

.

I thought you'd got me for a minute but that's claimed above is not what the figures say. Each car adds its own dose of CO2, the output per passenger rises. If the empty seats on the buses are filled the CO2 stays the same but the output per passenger falls.

They're figures produced for a specific purpose - doing CO2 statistics. Using them to draw other conclusion misleads.

I'm surprised you're not more sceptical about them!!

Edited by Bromptonaut on 03/11/2011 at 22:29

What does diesel do to tarmac? - jamie745

Ive already said co2 isnt a pollutant and its pointless talking about it but if even Transport for London are contributing to reports like this then its worth looking at as they're usually very keen to bury anything remotely pro-car. The report is emissions per passenger km, most people agree a bus is more polluting than a car but their backup argument is that a bus can take more people so therefore is greener, these figures suggest that may not be the case - outside of London anyway. Most buses run with hardly anybody on them, ive never seen a full bus. A bus will still drive its route without a single passenger but the point we should be discussing is the real pollutants buses put out, the nox gases, particulates etc. The Transport Research Laboratory estimates the average bus puts out up to 96 times more particulates than your average small modern car and any halfwit can work out if there is any road pollution in cities then its caused by buses and those stoneage London taxi's rather than your run of the mill car.

What does diesel do to tarmac? - 1litregolfeater

The question should be; "what does diesel do to your lungs".

Never mind the tarmac.

I think there's an issue of leaded petrol dimensions, waiting.

 

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