I had a 'discussion' last night with my girlfriend (ie I was told I was wrong) about reversing lights. She is adamant that all cars have to be fitted with two reversing lights. I've seen plenty with only one and pointed several out to her. She thinks this is illegal, but I've just checked the online version of the MOT testers handbook and can find no reference to reversing lights at all.
What is the legal requirement? 1, 2 or none at all?
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As far as i know all cars have at least one reverse light. I think this is the legal minimum. I think i have seen a few cars around with only one light, ford focus being one(i think but not sure).
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My 205 has just passed its MOT with one reversing light.
My Herald has also passed its MOT without a reversing light.
As with most MOT requirements, if they are fitted they must work. But cars do not need a reversing light to be legal.
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ok thanks for clearing that one up! its strange that a car can get an mot without a reverse light. As you say though if its not fitted its not part of the test, same as rear seat belts. It depends how old the car is, some cars don't need a handbrake(very old).
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Some cars seemingly don't even need indicators! (Pre-1936)
Thanks to all who replied. I suspected that was the answer - after all, a reversing light isn't actually that essential to safe driving.
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By law a reversing light is classed as an optional light and not an obligatory light, therefore there is no requirment to have oner at all. However it goes on to state that if you do have an optional light fitted then it must comply with regulations which merely state,
1. Not more than two can be fitted to your vehicle.
2. The lamp must be white.
So to solve your argument, none of you are right!!!
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None at all.
"To drive a vehicle at night, all of the necessary lights must be attached, clean and in good working order.
No person shall use, or permit to be used on a road a vehicle unless every lamp, reflector, rear marking and device is in a good working order and clean. This does not apply to front fog lamps or reversing lights."
... according to www.lancashire.police.uk/v1.html
Also see www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm19...l
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It often seems to be the case that, on cheaper cars in particular, you get one reverse light and one rear fog light, in matching positions in the rear light cluster.
Posher motors (like Cavaliers!) get two of each.
CavV6 and cavWeb fan.
www.cavweb.co.uk
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I think all post '79 cars had to have one fitted as part of type approval; I'm surprised this is not in the test, given that ABS, which is not compulsory on new cars, is.
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Abs is not a legal requirement but if fitted and not working will fail MOT. Front fog lights are not a legal reqirement and you can't fail an Mot on them.
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77/539/EEC, EC reg 23 and #52 of StVZO Road Licensing Regulations: 1 or 2 white backup lamps are permissible.
Whilst required for type testing (homologation), backup lamp operation is not tested as part of the MoT.
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Is it the case that on a 'single lamp' RHD car the fog lamp would have to be on the right and the reversing on the left and vice versa for a LHD?
Steve.
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Ford Fiestas in France are definitely 'handed' (ie different from uk )for rev lights and high intensity rear lights. I think Focuses (Focii?) are as well.
I cannot imagine that Ford would spend the money on making 2 sets of different parts unless they had to!
It is possible that different requirements apply in different lh driving eurpean countries, I will keep my eyes open for French, Spanish and German cars and report back.
pmh (was peter)
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Does that mean that foreign cars can be un roadworthy in the UK, but roadworthy in their respective countries?
I know we can be (like having to have a red triangle and spare glasses).
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Road Vehicles Lighting Regs 1989 deals with Reversing Lights which it defines as " a lamp used to illuminate the road to the rear of a vehicle for the purpose of reversing and to warn other road users that the vehicle is reversing or about to".
It is an Optional lamp and therefore not covered by Reg 23 which deals with the maintainance in good and working order.
Schedule 14 list the characteristics:
Number - Not more than two
Position - no requirement
Size of illuminated area - no requirement
Colour - white
Wattage: no requirement if displaying an approved mark otherwise one lamp not to exceed 24 watts
Tel-tale - Only required if light is not automatically activated by selection of reverse gear.
DVD
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Irrespective of EU regs. most countries have the equivalent of our C & U regs(Construction & Use);a good example is daytime running lights-Scandinavia requires all vehicles to be fittted-ie. mandatory.UK-they are not banned by C&U so they are legal. Germany-they are not mentioned in their equivalent of C&U so they are not allowed.
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Germany-they are not mentioned in their equivalent of C&U so they are not allowed.
Reminds me of a Dutch colleague's view of European laws and attitudes:
Holland: It's permitted unless it's specifically forbidden.
Germany: It's forbidden unless it's specifically permitted.
Italy/France: It's permitted, especially if it's forbidden.
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A question for you MOT experts.My car has two bulbs either side in the rear lights-one is out.Question-should it pass or fail?.The regulation states the vehicle must show a red light both sides-PASS but also states all lights fitted must be working-FAIL.?????????
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Rear light is an obligatory lamp (must have).
Must haves under Con and Use have to be maintained.
From what you say one side weak, one side bright?
DVD
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No;four bulbs,only three working.Both sides have a stop & tail bulb;both sides have a tail bulb but the tail filament in in one of the S&T is not working so I have rear lights both sides and stop lights both sides so PASS but the MOT regs say all lights fitted must be working-FAIL???
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On the subject of reversing lights and MOT's, they do not need to be fitted or even work. The reverse lights may come under construction and use regulations but as far as an MOT is concerned they are not part of it and a lot of MOT testers won't waste their time even checking to see if they work.
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Not claiming you are wrong there Simon, but my car was failed on MOT a couple of years back because one high-intensity rear lamp was not working (if he'd had the decency to thump it, it would have).
When I queried this, I was told 'If it's fitted, it must be working and becomes part of the test'.
Since he was unnecessarily unpleasant about it, I resolved to have an ejector seat fitted for next time!
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Based on my interpretation of the manual as printed in www.motuk.co.uk without going into the complexities of ancient or exempt vehicles ...
Shigg - "Is it the case that on a 'single lamp' RHD car the fog lamp would have to be on the right and the reversing on the left and vice versa for a LHD?" - The fog light must be on the right or in the middle. The reversing light can be anywhere.
Jonathan - "Does that mean that foreign cars can be un roadworthy in the UK, but roadworthy in their respective countries?" - A LHD car with its fog light on the left wouldn't pass the UK MOT. I suppose it should have its fog light changed when its headlights are converted for UK operation.
JC -"Both sides have a stop & tail bulb;both sides have a tail bulb but the tail filament in in one of the S&T is not working so I have rear lights both sides and stop lights both sides" - The MOT Manual says that you must have at least two red stop lights and two red tail lights, but doesn't say both stop lights or both tail lights must have equal intensity. But there is an indirect reference to assessing the light output "on its merits", so you are not 100% safe.
Frostbite - "I was told 'If it's fitted, it must be working and becomes part of the test'." - This applies to all stop lights, but not to reversing lights. Also, for cars with two rear fog lights, the left hand fog light is not tested.
Ian
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Our council has given 7-day fault notices to both a Volvo S40 and a Vauxhall Vectra for only having 3 (or even 2) tail-light bulbs working when there should be 4. But then they pick on taxis for anything.
How many (private car) N-S reg Vectras do you see with only the inboard tail-lights working? I've seen so many, I was wondering if it was a fashion trend I'd missed...
The reason they have two bulbs on each side is so that if one blows, you can still be displaying a pair of red lights to the rear whilst driving to the garage to buy a new bulb.
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Frostbite complained about the tester not 'thumping' his foglamp to get it working. Car testers aren't allowed to do this, a lamp should light when switched on. HGV testers thump each lamp, working or not, to check for lens security and for a bulb flickering or going OUT
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Hi all.Lets clear this up.
1 The reversing light is an optionl light.
Quote from manual: -"Any additional position lamps are optional and are not included in the inspection."
2 We testers never Thump the lamps at all. We are permited to: -"lightly tap the lamp to ensure there is no flickering/failure."
3 if you have two fog lamp lenses, but only one has a bulb in, as long as it is in the centre or to the offside of the vehicle it will meet the test requirements.
Hope this clears it all up for all you.
Cozmo
Tester
Vehicle Inspectorate!!
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Members of this forum may be amused at this side line to the reversing lights controversy.
My sister in law bought a new Fiesta about three years ago. As she was reversing out of her drive her neighbour said "Do you know you've only got one reversing light working on your new car?" Much annoyed my S.I.L. shot down to the Ford dealer. After waiting ages for an engineer to inspect her car she was told, "Madam, youur car is only fitted with one reversing light!"
Her reply was something to the effect "I pay all that money for a new car and I only get one reversing light...."
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I would think there is a good reason for only putting in one reverse light/fog light, there isn\'t much room on smaller cars. A few of the jap/korean cars don\'t even have fog lamps in the rear cluster, perhaps they don\'t need them ?
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A lot of Jap or Korean motors have fog lights fitted into the bumper. Unfortunatly I cannot think of an example this early on a sunday morning.
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The reversing light is notan optional light. At least one (and not more than two) is/are required by 77/539/EEC. Without one the vehicle cannot be homologated and as such cannot be sold. Neither is the reversing lamp defined as a position lamp - position lamps at the rear of a vehicle must be red and must come on with the master light switch.
I think many of you are confusing homologation requirements with the MoT requirements. There are piles and piles and piles and piles of homologation requirements - ie things a car must have (or tests which must be passed) to allow it to be sold as new in most markets by law (there are regional variations). The MoT is a UK specific annual test of certain features which must be in good working order at all times throughout a cars useful life.
Reversing lights are one of many features required by homologation, but which are not tested by the MoT.
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The reversing light is notan optional light.
Cyd, doesn't this only apply to vehicles made after a certain date? My old Allagro never had reversing lights fitted as standard. I fitted them myself after crunching the bumper a couple of times in the dark.
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Yes DD it does. However, I cannot access the relevant regulations from home so cannot give you the exact date the regulation was changed, but I think it was sometime in the late '70s.
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Cyd.
Where am I getting this wrong.
Having quickly read 77/539/EEC then to me this means that any reversing light has to comply to an EEC Standard and as such in UK bear the mark of E11 as approved. Nowhere can I see the EEC Reg say that reversing lights are mandatory on vehicles.
Again having perused UK Law in Road Vehicles (Lighting) Regs made in 1989 (12 years after 539/EEC) then Reg 18 and Schedule 1 do not cover such a light as obligatory. In fact Schedule 14 outlines the standards of the light as OPTIONAL.
Surely if EEC had said that the lights were mandatory then the regulations would have said so?
DVD
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The regulation does not have to say that it's contents are mandatory. The existance of the regulation is enough. This applies also to United Nations regulation 23. Where a regulation exists then a vehicle must be homologated to meet that regulation.
On the other hand the relevant US regulation (FMVSS108) does specifically state what lights a vehicle is required to carry. In the list (table 1 if you have a copy) is "1 white reverse lamp".
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DVD,
Found it! United Nations (ECE) Regulation 48 para 6.4:
6.4. REVERSING LAMP
6.4.1. Presence
Mandatory on motor vehicles. Optional on trailers.
6.4.2. Number
One or two on all vehicles.
There are other technical requirements, but this is the bit that specifies that all vehicles must be fitted with reverse lamps.
Cyd
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It’s a Thumb rule. The Fog lamp lit the center of the road.
Its function is to tell the vehicle behind you that the width of your vehicle ends here and helps him overtaking.
So Fog lamp depends on Left hand traffic or right hand traffic you drive.
And the other side to fog lamp is the Reverse lamp.
Also Note some countries like India, Fog lamp is not mandatory and both left and right lamps are reverse.
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