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Hi guys
After having not really used my sunroof through the cold British winter, I tried to use it in the spring of 2011. Although the motor was clearly attempting to open the roof, something seemed to have ceased or similar.
Was taken to MINI dealer in the spring who did a brief diagnostic and, for want of a better description, did a partial lubrication of some of the mechanism. I was told that this would not solve the problem but may help a little. It did not. I was also told that I should have used the sunroof a few times through the (snowy) winter.
I took the car in again today (July 2011) for them to do an extensive diagnostic. The result of this is that the Customer Services girl said I need a new frame and motor. I queried what exactly was wrong and she did not give a satisfactory technical explanation, although I have now read on paperwork that the motor and rook cables had both seized.
I was quoted nearly £2000 to replace both!
This was then reduced to £1200 (70% of parts cost paid by BMW / MINI).
Upon protesting the girl said she'd talk to her manager and phoned back less than two minutes later asking if I'd pay £500.
Does anyone know if they are actually taking me for a ride? Could I expect MINI to pay for the whole lot?
Car is a 2007 model and in good condition, but I feel these parts are not fit for purpose if they seize up after just four years requiring such major replacements.
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Audi had a similar problem on the Panoramic roof fitted to A2 models. They are repairing them under warranty until they are 10 years old. (£1200 a go)
(Proof: see A2 Owners Club Forum).
Quote that to Mini delaer and tell them Audi are better at looking after customers than BMW.. that should get some traction!
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If I buy a cheap Korean car with a 5 or 7 year warranty I do expect items to be repaired under warranty for 5 or 7 years.
But if I buy an expensive European brand with a 3 year warranty, why would anything be covered beyond 3 years. Clearly it seems their customers expect warranty without time limit, no wonder they're expensive.
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It does not appear unreasonable for consumers to expect infrequently used items like windows and sunroofs to last the average life of a car.. A four year life for a sunroof is unacceptable when you are paying a premium price for a premium brand...
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It does not appear unreasonable for consumers to expect infrequently used items like windows and sunroofs to last the average life of a car.. A four year life for a sunroof is unacceptable when you are paying a premium price for a premium brand...
So what you're suggesting is that every car automatically gets a lifetime warranty on all items not subject to wear and tear - regardless of the advertised/contractual warranty?
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So what you're suggesting is that every car automatically gets a lifetime warranty on all items not subject to wear and tear - regardless of the advertised/contractual warranty?
I must have defective eyesight. Nowhere did I state ior suggest that .. but if you want to read " evrey car " when I wrote "premium brand"....
And sunroofs are moving so subject to "wear and tear"...
I am suggesting a 4 year life for a not very often used item is not enough. And anyone who pays a premium price for a premium barnd has every right to expect recompense if the premium is not matched by a commensurate increase in actual quality versus non premium brands..
Quite simple really. (I blame the education system for the apparent inability to undestand what was clearly written:-)
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So what you're suggesting is that every car automatically gets a lifetime warranty on all items not subject to wear and tear - regardless of the advertised/contractual warranty?
I must have defective eyesight. Nowhere did I state ior suggest that .. but if you want to read " evrey car " when I wrote "premium brand"....
And sunroofs are moving so subject to "wear and tear"...
I am suggesting a 4 year life for a not very often used item is not enough. And anyone who pays a premium price for a premium barnd has every right to expect recompense if the premium is not matched by a commensurate increase in actual quality versus non premium brands..
Quite simple really. (I blame the education system for the apparent inability to undestand what was clearly written:-)
So how is the difference in warranty outside the warranty period reconciled across brands?
My uncle runs a 30 year-old Bentley - should he still be claiming for things on his warranty?
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Warranty is there for a specific purpose and for a specified time - if the manufacturer wants a longer period they can do so - if the customer wants a longer period they can take an extended warranty.
Why do so-called "premium" brands only get a 3 year warranty and cheap budget brands from Korea get 5 years unlimited mileage or 7 years/100,000 mile warranties - even mid-market Vauxhalls can have lifetime warranty subject to conditions.
Just because a customer pays more for a "premium" brand, it doesn't actually mean the product will last any longer - it just means that the customer is paying the price premium for the badge.
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IF a consumer pays a premium price, then one of the reasons must be a (reasonable) expectation that the actual quality is better .. Or the service better. Or summat.
Personally I think paying a premium for anything is toopid but premium prices should get better service.
If they don't then the consumer has been ripped off.
And nothing ventured, nothing gained...If you don't ask, you don't get...
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If they don't then the consumer has been ripped off.
No, if a consumer is prepared to pay more for a similar vehicle with a shorter warranty, but with a better badge on it they're not being ripped off, just gullible.
Anyone who reckons that thing A must be better than thing B purely because it costs more should probably get someone else to look after their money.
Fortunately for the German car industry, most people haven't worked this out yet.
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Remember that many of these very long warranties require you have the vehicle serviced and inspected and maintained in strict accordance with their schedules.
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In my opinion if the vehicle is outside of its warranty and not legally covered by any binding agreement and the dealership offers to do it for 25% of the original price then you should bite their hand off really. Unless the car has been recalled for that specific fault then theres not much else you can do i dont think, its a poor show those parts have broken after only four years and it says alot about their build quality but i'd say take the offer.
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I read the OP and couldn't decide either way. Out of curiosity, I tried the sunroof on Unthrottled's 15 year old French banger for the first time in years-and it worked. But does that mean that a 4 year old sunroof that doesn't woek is 'not fit for purpose'? I'm not sure. It's definitely disappointing.
A 75% contribution seems fantastic until you realise that the original quote was plucked from nowhere-purely so it could be 'negotiated' down. The absolute amount OP is being requested to pay is £500 which I think is still a bit dear. I would ask for a detailed breakdown of parts and labour, and see if that doesn't embarrass them into reducing it a bit more. After all, electric window components are dirt cheap and a sunroof isn't that mch more complex.
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Well known weak spot in the mini Cab. design. Poor show for a premium brand.
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£2000 for that job sounds steep but ive never dealt with main dealers and always assumed they cost the earth for a cup of tea, so i dont know if thats market value. But if that is the price at Mini to get three quarters off is good going, but even taking into account higher labour charges etc i'd still say £350 is a reasonable price for that job. If you asked me for an estimate off the top of my head it'd be around there.
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Why have the parts seized? You need to know this before making a judgement. It sounds like a corrosion problem. Maybe water is not draining properly or the car gets parked on a slope? If it’s a design fault you won’t be the only owner to experience this…a check on the Mini forums should provide an answer and it might give some ammunition to help in a claim. If the problem is rare, then you are unlikely to get any further with BMW on a four year old car. £500? Sounds about right to replace such an item…you don’t get much for that these days at main dealer prices.
It might be that they should be used a few times over the winter. I have had two cars with factory fitted sunroofs, no problems with either of them. I would however expect to open them up at some time over the colder months as they give excellent ventilation on the sunnier days.
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http://www.caymanautos.co.uk/mini-convertible-repair-servicing.asp
Like I said it's a well known weak spot in the Mini Cabriolet design.
The clue was in the phrase 'Well known'
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Since when did Mini become a premium brand? If premium means real quality (not how nice the buttons feel, or the noise the door makes when closed), longevity, and reliability, then all the japanese brands are premium.
If it's price, then only a few brands qualify. Maybe its exclusivity, in which case Mini certainly isn't premium. Is it German nanufaturers? That means Vauxhall is premium.
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Mini is premium priced.
(I would not pay the premium but that's because I would struggle to enter/exit.
As for Mini quality... the list of faults on old ones is much longer than on a Yaris.. so the premium is price but not quality of construction ...
Edit:- the manual sunroof on my 7 year old Yaris works 100% OK as did our 17 year old Peugeot 106 (only greased once after a slight squeak when it was 12)
Edited by madf on 08/07/2011 at 12:19
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Interesting to hear everyone's views on my original post.
To clear up a few things.
The car has been serviced, inspected and maintained in accordance with MINI's schedules.
The car has the sliding panoramic sunroof and IS NOT a convertible.
You may class me a "gullible" for buying what MAY be perceived as a 'premium' brand but that should not come into this debate. I am not comparing brands.
If you bought a KIA with a sunroof and it completely stopped working within four years I would expect it to be replaced.
If you bought a Bentley and the sunroof completely stopped working within four years, I would expect it to be replaced.
This is not a component that is subject to wear and tear due to mileage - it is something which gets used semi-regularly in the British summer, and not at all in the freezing, snowy winter.
For the record, I am not expecting warranty without time limit on all components. All parts on a car should have a suitability for purpose. If a part cannot fulfil its purpose, through no fault of the owner (I have not neglected to carry out any maintenance or usage that is expected in the manual).
People are commenting that their 'non-premium' branded cars still have sunroofs that work fine after 7 or 10 years. I would expect at least a similar level of quality from BMW / MINI parts.
What do you reckon guys? Worth persuing or bite the bullet and accept their offer?
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If you bought a KIA with a sunroof and it completely stopped working within four years I would expect it to be replaced.
The difference being that a 4 year-old failure within Kia's 7 year warranty would obviously be covered.
BMW don't see fit to give a 7 year warranty on the Mini - it still seems perverse to me to expect faults outside the warranty period to be fixed.
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If you bought a KIA with a sunroof and it completely stopped working within four years I would expect it to be replaced.
The difference being that a 4 year-old failure within Kia's 7 year warranty would obviously be covered.
BMW don't see fit to give a 7 year warranty on the Mini - it still seems perverse to me to expect faults outside the warranty period to be fixed.
OK - forget KIA. Say Peugeot, or Citroen or Ford or any other 'normal' make who offer 3 year warranties.
I am trying to focus on the 'fit for purpose' aspects, and reasonable usage aspects of this type of component.
How long do you think a sunroof should work for?
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The problem with the 'fit for purpose' argument is that the failure of the sunroof mechanism does not render the rest of the car unsafe, inoperable or generally unfit for purpose. This is in stark contrast to the long running VW injector saga in 'motoring' in which case the failure of one component causes the engine to stop dead and not restart.
You're right about the 'premium' vs 'non premium' debate being a silly aside.
I can't make up my mind on this. There are quite a few threads on other forums regarding this very problem. Might be worth perusing them and seeing what sort of outcomes they achieved.
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In fact, it appears that people on other fora are saying exactly the same thing; BMW's contribution is reasonable for a non critical component out of warranty. Accept the offer.
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Again, 75% off to replace a part out of warranty. Bite their hand off.
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hi2u, I got mini R56 with panoramic sunroof which stuck to close since last few days, been to some garage and refuse to fix it, quoted by BMW 2000 grand just for the parts.
any recommandation of where to repair please. I am in Reading.
thanks in advance and merry christmas.
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I think that if you look back through various posts on this and other sites you will see that BMW, Audi, MB et al have their fare share of problems. In my opinion these companies prices don't reflect "build quality", they sell their cars for a premium price because they can. The prices are based on reputation for a quality product that sadly is starting to show cracks, after all most car makers are using robots and most of those robots are made by the same company. It might be a contentious comment but BMW, Audi, MB etc are living on borrowed time, and they know it hence the reason for offering big "out of warranty" repairs. It's their way of trying to maintain their reputation, it's not that long ago that they wouldn't have to because the said makes rarely failed.
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Try these people,they offer repair of many types of sunroof;www.surreysunroofs.co.uk/
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