why must we always have to pay?

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 15:28
why must we always have to pay? - concrete

The other day while queing at the Dartford Crossing to literally throw money at them, I wondered a few things. Is the toll money worth it, for several reasons? Firstly does it cost more in fuel and wasted time to stop traffic to collect it? Secondly, does the money collected cover the actual cost of running the crossing? My feeling is that this government could give us all a real feel good factor if they simply abolished these tolls. It surely wouldn't cost that much and the crossing must be paid for several times over by now. The money collected from motorists surely must be enough to allow for maintaining the crossing for the benefit of all. At least all that endless wretched queing would be reduced considerably.

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 16:08
why must we always have to pay? - FP

The toll was originally introduced from when the Dartford Crossing opened in 1991 to pay for the construction of the crossing and to create a maintenance fund. It was announced by the Government that the toll would cease in April 2003, but before then the decision was reversed in what many saw as breaking a promise. The reason given was that a charge would help to control congestion and the money raised would be used to help fund the then-current 10-year transport plan. There was plenty of cynicism about that.

The latest on the situation is that consultation is about to start on raising the toll for a single journey by car from £1.50 to £2, to be introduced four weeks before Christmas, with a further 50p rise next April.

Lorry drivers would pay £5 per journey, rising to £6 in April, compared to £3.70 at present.

There are no plans to change the current toll-free times.

I could comment, but I'll leave it for others to do so.

Edited by FocalPoint on 29/06/2011 at 16:09

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 16:36
why must we always have to pay? - cilvilservant

FocalPoint - I thought the toll was originally introduced when the first tunnel was completed in the early 1960s.

1991 saw the opening of the bridge.

Question is should all tax payers pay for the maintenance of the tunnels and bridge via taxation, or should only the users pay when using the tunnels/bridge?

Edited by cilvilservant on 29/06/2011 at 16:37

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 16:55
why must we always have to pay? - Falkirk Bairn

In God's own country

1) No Bridge tolls

2) No clamping allowed other than the Police or Local Authority

3) No University Fees

4) No Prescription Charges / no parking charges @ hospitals

Downside is we get more than our fair share of rain & a lot less Sun.

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 19:35
why must we always have to pay? - JOGON

In God's own country

1) No Bridge tolls

2) No clamping allowed other than the Police or Local Authority

3) No University Fees

4) No Prescription Charges / no parking charges @ hospitals

Downside is we get more than our fair share of rain & a lot less Sun.

I'm assuming you are in Scotland? Oh dear - I wish you hadn't said that.... You've raised the awful Elephant in the Room of the Barnett Formula, etc etc. To take your numbering 1) No bridge tolls, perhaps fair for a country with many Islands, but someone has to pay for it/them. 2)Clamping, fair point but means only public sector tax funded staff can do this. 3) Scottish MP's of course voted for Tuition Fees in England, English MP's had no such luxury in Scottish Parliament. In fact your University Fees are paid for and the English Taxpayer is aggrieved at being tapped for this. Also :-

For the financial year ending on 31 March 2010, the total revenue expenditure of the Scottish Parliament was £72.7 million. This figure is made up of: administration and property running costs for the Parliament of £19.5 million

  • parliamentary staff salaries of £23.8 million
  • MSP salaries of £10.6 million
  • Members' costs (which enable the MSPs to obtain staff and accommodation to help them carry out their parliamentary duties) of £11.2 million.
  • funding for the salaries and running costs of the Commissioners and Ombudsman of £7.6 million.

4. No prescription charges / parking at hospitals. Don't be fooled, there is a cost to all of this - your Parliament just thinks that Scottish Folk shouldn't have to shell out for it. Others should. Incidentally love Scotland the place and the people. But there is no United Kingdom.

Edited by Cllr Duxbury on 29/06/2011 at 19:37

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Thu 30 Jun 2011 10:55
why must we always have to pay? - davmal
"WELCOME to McCuba. Scotland is set to become the third most state-dependent country in the world. Soon Havana and Baghdad will be the only capitals that rely more on public spending than Edinburgh, according to economic forecasters. "

Prescriptions aren't free, only to locals. I had to pay.
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Wed 29 Jun 2011 19:36
why must we always have to pay? - jamie745

I dont like sunlight so im there!!!

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Fri 1 Jul 2011 08:31
why must we always have to pay? - JOGON

I dont like sunlight so im there!!! jamie745:- are you saying the awful, Emperor's New Clothes-type truth that we're all sad sat hunched over a pc talking bo**ocks?

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 17:00
why must we always have to pay? - FP

CS - correct. I'm sorry that my previous posting was a bit sloppy - tolls were introduced for the first Dartford Tunnel in 1963. Subsequently a second tunnel was built (opened in 1980) and construction costs had not been fully paid off by the time construction started on the Queen Elizabeth Bridge. When that opened in 1991 the toll charge was continued, supposedly only to pay off costs and accumulate a maintenance fund.

Edited by FocalPoint on 29/06/2011 at 17:01

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Wed 29 Jun 2011 17:11
why must we always have to pay? - cilvilservant

FocalPoint

Thank the Lord for Wikipedia...

CivilServant

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Thu 30 Jun 2011 17:23
why must we always have to pay? - concrete

Thanks Focalpoint, very informative. I cannot see how Civilservants' idea of paying as you use a certain section of road or crossing would work. We would need collection points on every busy section of road in the country. The place would grind to a halt, sometimes it feels like it has already. Surely, no matter if it is the Tyne, Humber, Severn, Dartford or any other crossing, it is part of the road system, paid for by ALL road users, therfore should be FREE to ALL road users. Many have no viable alternative route other than to use these crossings. The only exception I would make would be foreign lorries, where I would collect a road use toll along with the ferry charge. My main point was however, is it possible to calculate the cost of collecting the money?. I had to queue for 30 minutes to pay, so my time plus the excessive pollution and fuel used in queing must have a cost. Also the extra wear and tear on the vehicle having to stop/start frequently. That is apart from the sheer frustration that the ONLY reason for the hold up-is to be 'held up' and money taken. Lastly, being a Scot, I think Scotland is the finest country on earth and also a pleasure to drive in. But I would not like to be around if Commissar Salmond gets his way and runs it into the ground. Was it Oscar Wilde who said 'Patriotism: the last refuge of a scoundrel!'. Enough said on that matter. Best to all. Concrete

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