Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - Spitfire375

Why is it that the advertised fuel consumption figures are never achievable I find this so annoying. I have been driving for the best part of forty years now and have never managed to equal or better these figures. As I understand it these figures are derived at in the test lab and if that is fact, then why are manufacturers allowed to state that this is achievable on the road when quite clearly it is not, surely a case for trading standards and dare I say it compensation for the mis sold motorist.

(Any further threads started unspecifically as this was with words like "Why is is" and nothing else will be summarily deleted. HJ.)

Edited by Honestjohn on 25/10/2010 at 09:54

Why is it - bathtub tom

It's a standard that all manufacturers use.

You can then compare one to another.

I doubt if anyone will ever achieve the same figures, but it's a guide to compare one to another.

Anyone remember the old economy runs in the '70s?

Why is it - Dutchie

I do remember these economy runs,I have never took a lot of notice of these figures.They are done in lab conditions,they should obtain these mpg figures in normal driving conditions would be more honest.Stop start in town and motorway driving.

Why is it - bathtub tom

>>they should obtain these mpg figures in normal driving conditions

If they were done in real conditions, then no two runs would be identical, due to temperature, wind speed and direction, traffic conditions etc. Unfortunately the only way to get a direct comparison is under laboratory conditions.

Why is it - P3t3r

My previous car used to get very close to the official figures. I had an 899cc Fiat Seicento. On a long motorway run (at 70mph) I could always exceed the extra urban figure (55.3mpg) by a few mpg. With a mixture of driving I was getting around 44mpg IIRC which is about 2mpg less than the combined figure. If I used slightly different roads I would have probably matched the combined figure though. I think the lowest I ever got (with really bad stop-start traffic) was about 34-36mpg (official urban is 35.7mpg). On a normal day with stop-start traffic I would usually get at least 38-39mpg though.

My current car (Fiat Panda 100HP) isn't as good though. The Urban figure is about right. The combine figure is quite difficult to achieve though. It will usually miss it by 3-4mpg. I have had the extra-urban figure once, but that needed some very slow driving. Driving between 50mph and 60mph can push me up to the extra-urban figure, but 70mph kills the consumption completely. Driving at 50-60mph is rarely practical on motorways though. With my Seicento it would probably easily exceed 60mpg if I had driven it at 50-60mph.

I don't think the fuel consumption tests are good enough. They certainly aren't good enough for us to compare between cars. It also beomes even more difficult to compare cars when some of them have stop-start, and some are hybrids.

Why is it - Dutchie

Nice car the Fiat Seicento,when I had the Fiat Punto 1200 cc that came close to the official figures and I did not drive like a saint.My daughters Fiat Panda is very economical she has got the 1200cc Eco Model.I suppose its the way anybody drives. On the motorway I like to get on 60mph wouldt be for me but the faster you go the more fuel is used If that makes sense..Like you are saying comparison is difficult ,I put the fuel in the tank and pays the money while I can still afford it just.

Why is it - Armitage Shanks {p}

They are not achieveable because the conditions under which the test is conducted are not the conditions in which the car is driven. As someone else has said, the figures can be used to see which car has the better figures but they are unlikely to achieveable out on the road in the real world.

Why is it - Armitage Shanks {p}

Duplicate post deleted

Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 23/10/2010 at 11:50

Why is it - Armstrong Sid

And the lab conditions can't possibly recreate the different styles of every driver on the road. One driver will be a bit heavier-footed than another person; some people will be that bit earlier or later than others at braking or accelrating; some will hang on in various gears longer than others. So even if the test boffins programme in all kinds of variables, they can't cover every option.

If ten different people drove the same car for a day in town conditions, they'd come out with ten different mpg figures. So who's right or wrong?

Why is it - Dutchie

Like you are saying Amstron Sid there is no right or wrong the figures are just a guide and not gospel.

Why is it - gordonbennet
We all know that speedometers are optimistic my up to 10%, i wonder just how far out odometers are, guaranteed they are optimistic too.

One could be forgiven for thinking it would be in a makers economy figures interest to make them so, perish the thought.

Has anyone tested there's against a measured route for instance, several times i meant to do so by measuring against a truck with calibrated tacho but never remember when i'm in my car on the same route.
Why is it - Andy P

Many years ago there was an issue raised about how the consumption figures were measured, and that was that the manufacturers were deliberatley setting the gearing/engine mapping so that under the conditions of the test the engine was running at it's most fuel efficient, not necessarily the best for driving (hence the wide availability of remaps to iron them out).

Probably still happens.

Why is it - dieseldogg

Well, erm, i probably meet or exceed the published figs for the Galaxy.

Had 52.5mpg over 100 hours driving at an ave of 30 mph =3000 miles , all mixed driving incl short runs but in the summer. would generally get the high forties/low fifties in the summer and low mid forties in the winter .

Fuel Logged and miles checked check against motorway posts, & not more than 5 or 6 % optimistic .

Though I don not often drive in congested city traffic, well almost never, mostly only small town urban driving/ country roads.

Cheers

M

Oh I am of the totally anecdotal opinion that petrols would be furthur astray than diesels from the published figs,

Perhaps because petrol drivers since they should not be doing as many miles than diesel drivers are doing more shorter inefficient runs/ urban runs??

Why is it - Zippy123

Poverty spec BMW 316d (1.98l) 2009. I got 67mpg on one run once (late at night motorway) which was above the 63mpg quoted. Average is 53 but hardish driving (all rush hour) so not too bad.

The real problem for company car drivers is that tight so and sos at the HMRC use the official figures for fuel allowances so I am feeling quite hard done by.

Why is it - Dutchie

My daughter has the same problem regarding fuel allowance she is a community mental healthe nurse and they use the official figures.And she is receiving no pay rise for two years (Another subject).

Why is it - corax

According to Parkers my car averages 32mpg. I've worked out that I average around 28mpg,based on my driving style and a mixture of fast road/urban driving on the way to work. So if I'm interested in future cars I just subtract around 4mpg from the official fuel figure from that car. That way you won't get too disappointed if you buy one expecting astounding fuel economy. If you can afford the fuel to run your car to it's expected mileage each year, then it's satisfactory. It would probably work better for petrols. Some diesels, like the VW Tdi, can sometimes give unexpectedly good figures when driving, maybe better than the official fuel figure, but again, it's based on driving style.

Edited by corax on 24/10/2010 at 15:04

Why is it - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I've the same commute every day, the weather and traffic conditions vary but my mpg does not vary hugely when done on a full to full tank. I've had both diesel and petrol cars from new.

The last petrol car (Hyundai Coupe SIII, 2l 140hp) did get the combined mpg all the time and even bettered it slightly (37mpg). My current Skoda Octavia (2l PD 140hp) is falling well short of the combined figure at 48mpg. But 48mpg is still better than 37mpg!

Why is it - mlj

Have to say I have always managed to match or better official mpg figures. I have had two VW 1.9 TDI engined cars (Golf and Leon) both of which did 55 mpg without really trying. When I did, mid 60s was achieveable. Then a petrol Toyota which was supposed to average 38mpg and did this with a few mpg to spare. Current motor is the trusty Berlingo with the 1.6 HDI (92 bhp). Anything less than 55 is highly unusual and 58-60 is the norm. I have to be honest and state I do drive with economy in mind and seem to get where I want to go in plenty of time. The 13 mile commute each morning sees me pootling along at 50 while everyone else seems to be busting a gut to get to work early: 70-80 seems the speed most people drive along the A38 down here.

Why is it - TheOilBurner
We all know that speedometers are optimistic my up to 10%, i wonder just how far out odometers are, guaranteed they are optimistic too.

On cars I've owned where it's possible to get the real speed reading (usually in Km/h from a hidden diagnostic computer) I've found that the odometer is accurate, and that the speedo reading is out as you say, but this is only on the reading itself.

The car knows how fast it is going, it just chooses to give a higher reading as a safety margin. The odometer on a modern canbus car should be above 99% accurate, no matter what the speedo says.

Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - TheOilBurner
"Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable?"

Who says? I join the minority who says it *is* achievable, you just have to adjust the nut behind the wheel.

Current car: Avensis 1.8 VVTi. Toyota say 39mpg combined. I not only match that in everyday driving, but I consistently reach 45mpg average on a strict long distance 70mph run, piece of cake. I've never had less than 37mpg out of it on a single tank.

Last car: C5 3.0 V6 auto petrol. Citroën say 28mpg combined. I could get 35mpg driving at 60mph, being very careful. I once saw an average of 37mpg on it whilst on holiday in North Wales. Of course, when I let it rip and played with it a little, the economy could drop as low as 17mpg, that is without some longer runs to balance it out.

All figures are calculated brim to brim on re-fills, although I find the trip computer on most cars I've owned to be +/- 2% accurate when averaged out over several re-fills.

If you're very gentle and willing to stay at 55-60mph and use some of the safer hypermiling techniques, then beating the combined mpg is easy, and you should be able to just about touch the extra urban figures too.
Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - madf

Of course, good drivers achieve published MPG:

Yaris diesel:

Urban: 53.3

Extar urban : 74.2

I average 57mpg as it's almost all urban driving.. The official average of 64mpg is an artifical figure which you can only use as a comparison IF you do a 50:50 split of uurban/extra urban.

Well I do better! Wot a surprise! (much off my urban driving is stretches at 30mph).

Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - oldgit

I achieved the 'Combined' figure quite easily in my MK5 1.6 FSI Golf but can't seem to do the same with my new-ish MK6 1.4TSI 122PS Golf!

Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - AlleyCat`

I have seen this exact same issue.

My 53 plate passat (1.9tdi) could easily outdo the combined mpg.

The 57 plate leon (2.0tdi) i replaced it with couldn't get anywhere near the quoted figures.

I wanted to blame it all on DPF and Euro engine regulations but if i'm honest It probably is just a case of a "problem existing between the drivers seat and the pedals" in my case.

Edited by AlleyCat` on 25/10/2010 at 17:22

Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - Leif

I own a Ford Ka and the combined value is 42 mpg. I easily get 45mpg when driving to and from work, and general driving. When I lived in Luton, I barely scraped 40 mpg due to the horrendous traffic, traffic lights etc. I think a large part of the real world mpg is how you drive. If you tail gate, continually brake and accelerate, or do high speeds on the motorway, you'll get poor mpg. If you drive smoothly, and traffic is not awful, you'll do well.

Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - jamie745

I do feel on one hand that fuel consumption figures are usually difficult to achieve as the fact is the test by which these are published are not the same conditions in which the car will be driven, which is why i tend to look out for professional or owners reviews of a car, someone who drives it regularly, to tell us what it really does. But mpg can vary so much with driving style and the sort of roads you're on, speed, tyre pressure etc that its difficult to say to manufacturers that they have to publish an "accurate" figure.

Why is it that advertised fuel economy is not achievable? - alan1302

All three cars I have had I have always been able to meet or beat the combined MPG for the car - unless I have been doing a lot of traffic jams or very fast motorway traffic.

I don't you can really come up with a measure that will be perfect for everyone so at least what we have now give a standarised test for all cars - although now hybrids are getting more popular there may need to be some changes done.