All models - Dual mass flywheel failures

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 08:48
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - LucyBC

We have successfully dealt with a number of cases which have involved the failure of dual mass flywheels on late model vehicles where the manufacturer and dealer have initially asserted that the warranty will not cover the costs of repair - usually exceeding £1500.

There is normally some attempt to assert that the cause of the failure is misuse by the driver and hence the owner must pay.

In consultation with Honest John we have created a national panel of independent automotive engineers who will examine the parts and vehicle in the event of dual mass flywheel (DMF) problems to evaluate whether the failure resulted from a manufacturing defect or owner misuse.

In most cases we hope to be able to undertake these cases on a no-win-no-fee- basis but this will inevitably be based on the prospects for success.

Hopefully this should go some way to addressing this issue. Anyone seeking to use the service or requiring further information can contact me either by asklucy@honestjohn.co.uk or via lucy.bonhamcarter@qualityanswers.co.uk

The engineers will not only deal with dual mass flywheel problems but can be used in any other mechanical based claim.

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 08:51
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - veryoldbear

Great idea. Too late for me I fear (SAAB 3.0tid last year). But how on earth can you misuse a flywheel ?

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 09:12
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - LucyBC

I don't think you can but they usually seem to seem to claim the failure is a result of clutch misuse.

I think it is an indication of the extent of the problem which means that it is a deliberate decision to oppose every possible claim.

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 10:42
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - veryoldbear

I think that the response should be that the design (internal bonding of comonents) of a DMF should be such as to withstand momentary overloads caused by the normal variations of clutch use. The DMF should not be designed to such tight limits that a bit of erratic clutch use causes it to fail. Any automotive engineers out there who might like to comment ?

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 19:37
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - Brit_in_Germany

There is a very interesting LUK article at

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33265704/Dmf-failure

describing various diagnoses. Most of these relate to themal load, hence the position of manufacturers that the failure results from abusing the clutch.

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 17:25
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - Avant

Can I add a proposition to the debate?

The DMF is under less strain in a petrol engine as there are fewer vibrations than in a diesel. Therefore there are fewer DMF failures with petrol engines.

Is that true or am I just showing that I'm no engineer?

Many thanks for this Lucy - not least for being awake and working at that time on a Sunday morning....

Edited by Avant on 20/06/2010 at 17:26

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 18:48
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - NARU

Surely there are more vibrations in a petrol, assuming both are 4-cylinders. The petrol will rev higher.

But ... the amplitude of the diesel vibrations, and the torque the DMF is subjected to would be higher in the typical diesel?

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Sun 20 Jun 2010 20:03
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - corax

>>But...the amplitude of the diesel vibrations, and the torque the DMF is subjected to would be higher in the typical diesel?

Petrol engines are far smoother, just drive the diesel golf and petrol golf. Diesels transmit more shock to everything around them, presumably down to the higher compression ratio, and the way the diesel burns. You can feel the vibes through the clutch pedal, and the electronic components and wiring looms are more prone to failure, because they're situated so close to the engine. OK, I know that solid state electronics in cars are tough, but thats a pretty alien environment for them to sit in.

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 10:29
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - veryoldbear

Whatever.

The fact remains that the loads imposed by an engine are predictable and are a function of the loads put on the crankshaft whether it be produced by petrol and diesel. The DMF should be designed for these forces and the trosional vibrations across the rev range, plus a reasonable factor of safety for the use / misuse of the clutch. I would contend that the high incidence of DMF failures is a basic design fault.

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 13:37
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - dieseldogg

Having seen the way some people drive I have a sneaking sympthay for the motor manufacturers, from personal observation in the local community I know of three who NEVER remove their foot from the clutch pedal.Two young, one older.

plus the boy racers attempting to emulate the idiot car magazine testers side stepping the clutch at high revs for a fast start.

Currently on 218,666 miles, on the first clutch ( not dual mass) and counting.

Cheers

M

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 14:03
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - veryoldbear

Golly. A webcam in the foot well ?

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 14:50
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - Rob C

Very interested to read this and will bear it in mind.

Lucy, obviously you cannot discuss costs here, but on a no-win-no-fee basis, presuming someone wins (me) and gets their £1200 back, are they then going to give it to you, and more?

Edited by Rob C on 21/06/2010 at 14:51

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Tue 22 Jun 2010 13:13
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - LucyBC
Lucy, obviously you cannot discuss costs here, but on a no-win-no-fee basis, presuming someone wins (me) and gets their £1200 back, are they then going to give it to you, and more?

The legal fee is £200 - £250 payable only if we reach an outcome we have preagreed with you.

The engineers' report is another £225-£285 depending on the location but in most cases where we have needed one the arrangements can be agreed with the dealer.In all but two cases so far we have not needed an engineers report.

Legal costs are not recoverable at this level save by agreement.

The service is really suited to late model cars sold by a main dealer where the manufacturer is likely to contribute to repair costs.

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 21:54
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - mccririck

Is the problem with lifting the clutch too suddenly and using the clutch too much? I thought it would be sudden clutch movements.

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Mon 21 Jun 2010 21:52
All models - Dual mass flywheel failures - mccririck

I think that's what they meant by more vibrations. Petrol engines run smoother.

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