Hi all, just like to say hello and what a great site this is!
im looking at buying a smallish and econimical car that isnt going to cost me a fortune in repairs. Ive only bought an older car once before and the gearbox had gone within 6 months so im doing my research and am very wary of unreliable cars now (Laguna!!!)
So far im considering:
Fiesta 1.4TDCI
Corsa 1.3CDTI
Clio 1.5DCI
Im thinking diesel as they are cheaper to run, i do about 15K miles a year. Are diesels more prone to failures than petrols?
I have 3K to spend and I dont really want to go any older than 02 reg and 90K miles.
Problem is everytime I start researching a type of car I just read about loads of problems and people saying do not buy!
Is anyone really experienced in buying older cars who can give some good advice?
Should I just get one of those private warranties from warranty direct so I have nothing to worry about?
Thanks in advance.
Kyle.
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Hello, Kyle. Welcome to the forum.
You're going to be struggling to get any of the cars listed for 3k, unless it's a shed.
Much better to go for the petrol equivilant. At 15000 a year, you're on the verge of a diesel being viable, but, at your budget, a petrol is a better bet; you'll get a lower mileage/newer petrol for your money and there's much less to go wrong.
A warranty is a good idea, but read the small print regarding what is covered and what is not.
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I'm not sure about the other two, but I drove a Ford Fusion 1.4 TDCI once. Never again. It was awful in every way. Economical, yes, but it would be enough to put most people off diesel powered cars.
If you want to know which is best (diesel or petrol) do a search on here and be preprepared to invest a few hours digesting many diverging opinions!
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15k is marginal for savings in terms of diesel v petrol, frankly.
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...plus older diesels are a minefield of potential (and potentially very expensive to fix) problems.
You *might* be lucky but the trouble with buying an older car with a hefty mileage is that you could easily end up spending a small fortune on repairs and maintenance unless you or someone in your family, is handy with spanners.
I find it very difficult to advise in these situations - when my kids needed their first cars after leaving Uni I took a deep breath and helped them buy new ones.
Don't know anything about your circumstances, obviously, but how about a low cost PCP deal on a new car? Many do cheap servicing packages too so you've nothing to worry about for 3yrs.
Edited by Bill Payer on 08/02/2010 at 15:50
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Fuel economy and CO2/tax bands are big drivers of used values at the moment, given that already punitive road tax and fuel prices are only going to go up. As such, small diesels tend to fetch strong money unless very old/tired/worn. £3k won't get you much in this sector, I'm afraid.
I would be looking for something Japanese with a 1.4-1.6 litre petrol engine. Something like a previous generation 1.4 litre Honda Civic should come into budget quite comfortably in good nick and with reasonable mileage. Extremely unlikely to give you any grief, and should give you somewhere around 40 mpg as well.
Edited by DP on 08/02/2010 at 17:19
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I think a 1.4litre or even 1.2 L petrol is the way to go for what you want.
Lighter, less to go wrong, and could even be fun.
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MK1 Focus 1.6 petrol. Reliable, cheap and easy to keep going.
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MK1 Focus 1.6 petrol. Reliable cheap and easy to keep going.
I like my Focus, but my stepson has an S reg 1.0 Corsa which has proved to be virtually indestructible and cheap to keep on the road. So I would also suggest having a look at a 1.2 Corsa - a quick search on Autotrader found a few 2003/4 models within 20 miles of me (Reading):
tinyurl.com/yfurtv4
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15K a year in a Corsa - no thanks.
He needs some comfort.
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15K a year in a Corsa - no thanks. He needs some comfort.
It might not be your cup of tea, but I could certainly manage! And the OP's list consists of cars of that sort of size, so perhaps he's had some experience of them.
Edited by Focus {P} on 08/02/2010 at 21:11
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In terms of reliability, at the risk of stating the obvious:
1) The condition of the individual car (including FSH) is as important as the make and model.
2) Older usually means less reliable - so a newer car of a less reliable model may be about as good as an older car of a more reliable model
3) If you have a choice between newer car with more miles, and an older car with fewer miles, the former will probably be the better bet.
Some cars to consider, with approx official mpg figures:
Honda Civic 1.4 petrol - 45 mpg
Honda Civic 1.6 petrol - 43 mpg
Ford Focus 1.6 petrol - 41 mpg
Toyota Yaris 1.0 petrol - 50 mpg
Toyota Yaris 1.3 petrol - 47 mpg
Toyota Yaris 1.4 diesel - 65 mpg
Toyota Corolla 1.4 petrol - 42 mpg
Skoda Fabia 1.4 petrol -39 mpg
Skoda Fabia 1.9 diesel - 57 mpg
Skoda Octavia 1.9 diesel - 54 mpg
The VAG 1.9 diesel as found in Skodas is pretty reliable, as long as the timing belt is changed regularly.
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I like my Focus but my stepson has an S reg 1.0 Corsa which has proved to be virtually indestructible and cheap to keep on the road.
Sell it to Rattle
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MK1 Focus 1.6 petrol. Reliable cheap and easy to keep going.
I second that.
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Mazda 323 petrol, 1.5 or the later 1.6. Well equipped, very reliable, understated. We had one for 6 years (S plate scrapped for an i10 in September), needed anti roll bar rubbers (£80 ish) and a battery that were "faults" outside of servicing. It needed a new rear boot door, bumper and exhaust manifold because of the manner of driving that my wife engaged in.
I see one now online, trade supplied, 1.6, 54k miles, FSH for £2,495. Enough money in the bank to fix anything that goes wrong outisde of the three month warranty you will get with it.
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And another car to consider - Daihatsu Sirion. Not many around, but they are economical and reliable.
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Agree with Mazda 323/ Civic comments. Or an Almera. Any of these would do the job fine. Looked on A'trader locally £3k would get you a number of 02-03 Almeras or 323s, 1-2 owner, 40-60,000 miles with some change. Civics a bit more costly.
Having driven 323s and Almeras I can testify for solidity and reliability. There are reports of timing chain issues on Almeras but my 1.8 Sport is 100,000 miles up and no worries, performs best on motorways.
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Thanks for all the detailed replies, very informative indeed.
Im getting the impression that its just not worth the risk getting a diesel. Why is the diesel engine more likely to need repairing then, i was under the impression that diesel engines "go on forever" ??
Ill have a look on autotrader at some of the cars you have mentioned. Just to clarify, would I be better getting an older car with less miles or a newr car with more miles?
Thanks again.
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"Why is the diesel engine more likely to need repairing then, i was under the impression that diesel engines "go on forever" ??"
Old ones did, but to make them meet emissions regs they put lots of too clever by half kit on them which falls off.
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Old ones did but to make them meet emissions regs they put lots of too clever by half kit on them which falls off.
Couldn't have said it better
As regards the old/low mileage or new/high mileage, I'd always go for the latter.
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A Diesel car in this age range will be more expensive as there were fewer of them for sale and they have this "aura" of better fuel consumption and therefore "desirability" - meaning (IMO) the better fuel consumption is negated by the higher purchase price.
Not sure if they are any more or less reliable than same manufacturers petrols (ie Golf petrol vs diesel), but the Jap cars of this age range are stunningly reliable, just with rubbish (or no) diesel engines.
Mileage/age/condition...?
I think at this price range you should buy to quality of car not price - so to me better a spotless 2002 with 40k and a FSH for £2.5k than an average 2004 with 80k and some history.
When younger (and I had the time) I went out of my way to hunt down old, low mileage cars (21k mile 12 year old Corolla, 34k mile 16 year old Polo, 20k mile 14 year old mk1 Cavalier) all with FSH and well looked after. All were solid and did me well.
The difference between the good cars and the bad cars was the number of previous owners and how well these previous owners had looked after the car. The higher number of owners, particularly the older the car, the more likely it is there is something expensive wrong and the fault is being bodged/hidden and sold on.
Fewer owners (or ideally one) and a FSH mean the better chance it has been a well looked after and loved car. It sounds like hard work, but the search of 323's, Civics and Almeras reveals a good selection. You can find similar Focus/Astras but because they are in amongst so much dross it is harder work.
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Ok this is really helping me thanks. So diesels around the 2002/3 age are definately too big of a reliability risk and therefore I can rule them out.
FSH and a low number of former keepers is a must.
If i follow the above rules what about the smaller petrols like the 1.2 clio?
Ive been looking at something online called "the reliability index". Gives each car a score of how reliable it is, anyone heard of it and is it accurate?
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Sounds like a Yaris 1.3 would be ideal, certainly what I'd go for in this range. Not worth spending the extra on a diesel unless you're doing huge mileages. A small Jap petrol is highly likely to be totally reliable, and there are plenty of parts around for the Yaris.
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(I am biased) but bazza is correct. Lots of cheap Yaris bits around - new and s/h on ebay (winter crashes?).
Watch for timing chain rattle (£££s even the parts are >£100), anti roll bar bushes (clonk over bumps).. but £s and easy DIY.- see ebay. and check the ABS warning light comes on at start up and goes out again as unscrupulous sellers remove them.
Lots of online Toyota manuals and Haynes make DIY easy..
Much better designed and built than equivalent Ford or Citroen.. so far fewer seized rusted up nuts..
Passenger side front ABS sensors do go: pattern replacement is £37 from Germany... >£80 from Toyota.. but if rear ABS fails... new hub bearing needed list £198..! (you can replace the sensor at £50 but you are likely to damage it...)
Regular oil changes means 100k plus and no oil usage...
(Son has just bought a cheap 2001 one which I have resurrected).
Watch out for engine neglect: no oil changes.. and rear suspension arms rubber bushes..
Generally very reliable and galvanised body.. but minor sheet metal underneath bonnet and suspension does have lots of surface rust.
Rear exhaust boxes go at joint beside rear wheel. £30 to £40..
(If you can, have a good look underneath..).
Catalysts last well but are £££s.
Warning: check all engine warning lights come on when ignition is switched on.. and then go out when engine starts. This is ESSENTIAL. The VVTI system is very reliable but if worn it is £££s to replace...
Auxiliary drive belts are £27 from Toyota , Gates belts are £14 from motor factors.
LOTS of good pattern parts around..
I repeat: check all warning lights work and go out properly.. A full set of service manuals is downloadable from...Toyota Owners Club. Yaris forums..
toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showforum=49
See also the HJ writeup on buying...
Lots of low mileage ones around but prices are rising...
Edit: tyres are 175/65R14 : cheap --- £5 to £45 each... 25 k miles + is possible...
Edited by madf on 09/02/2010 at 19:11
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Ok this is really helping me thanks. So diesels around the 2002/3 age are definately too big of a reliability risk and therefore I can rule them out.
Generally, yes - though there are a few exceptions.
FSH and a low number of former keepers is a must.
Yes
If i follow the above rules what about the smaller petrols like the 1.2 clio?
Renaults were, in general, pretty unreliable between 2000 and 2005. More recent ones are better. The most reliable petrol superminis between 2000 and 2005 are (probably) the Honda Jazz, the Toyota Yaris, and the Daihatsu Sirion. Ones to avoid are the Clio, the Punto, and the Peugeot 206. Corsas, Polos, Fiestas, Skoda Fabias seem to come somewhere in between.
Ive been looking at something online called "the reliability index". Gives each car a score of how reliable it is, anyone heard of it and is it accurate?
It is one of several indications of reliability, and is produced by Warranty Direct. Others are the German ADAC breakdown statistics, the JD Power survey, (associated with What Car magazine) and Which magazine's statistics. They all do the calculations in slightly different ways, and come out with slightly different results. The most accurate results are the ones that compare cars with other cars made the same year, and I don't believe that the Warranty Direct Reliability Index does so.
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